Scientology is warning its members about Feb 10th

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
It's not an "explain it all" post, it's a reasoned and reasonable post encouraging scientologists to "false data strip" hypnosis.

After all the various ideas Alanzo and I exchanged concerning the subject of auditing and hypnosis, you abstract it down to a single black and white bit of meaning?

You see, I hope to come away from a conversation with an increased awareness and understanding of the subject under discussion - especially through the use of critical thinking - examining all the various shades of meaning by attempting to apply an idea to various sets of criteria, thereby determining an idea's relative validity.

We tend to reduce complex ideas down to less complicated abstractions in order to more easily process incredible amounts of information. When in reality, most human behavior is much more complex and multi varied.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
That's fine by me.

But I'd like to clarify something:

All I said to Alanzo is that I thought his reply was well researched and thus convincing.

But not so fast.

I would agree based upon his reasoned argument that some subset of all the individuals involved in Scientology were possibly implanted with bogus Scientology material due to being in a hypnotic state induced by auditing.

However - we don't live in a black and white universe, folks!

I would tend to believe that there is also a subset of all individuals receiving auditing who were not hypnotized at all. Suggestibility itself is a multi-valued variable. The auditor's skill is also extremely variable. The culture of the organization within which the auditing took place is another multi-valued variable.

Alonzo's argument is really nothing more than an untested hypothesis. It has not been measured against all the possible variables and outcomes.

Looking for that one "zinger" of an idea that "explains it all" is what got most of us into trouble to begin with.

The one lesson that should be learned very well by any ex-Scientologist is to be very wary of any *.ism or *.ology that attempts to reduce the incredibly complex subject of human behavior into a set "facts" which don't encompass the entire array of all possible outcomes.

I agree with you, ESD.

There are many other factors and other variables involved.

I did mention this:

Along with the social coercion techniques that Hubbard built into Scientology like stats, disconnection, screaming at juniors, elitist hierarchies which can not be questioned, sec checking for any doubt or dissidence, etc, I think that the hypnotic nature of auditing served to soften up Scientologists so that his positive suggestions, and enforced suggestions, would take hold more deeply.
There's a lot of stuff going on there, each with varying degrees of success and effectiveness. And the role I assigned the hypnotic nature of auditing was to soften up the Scientologist so the other factors would have even more power over him.

And I did say that there were varying degrees of vulnerability to positive suggestions.

There is no doubt that Hubbard used many coercive factors in building his artificial culture of Scientology. No single one of them is absolutely all-powerful, or irresistibly effective.

But all of them together were a formidable force to deal with as Scientologists.

How would you explain all the Scientology robots we see running around?
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
I do understand that you are also engaging in critical thinking and not just limiting your ideas to something simple like "auditing equals hypnotism".

Alonzo, this was a very profitable conversation, indeed!
 

shader

Patron with Honors
After all the various ideas Alanzo and I exchanged concerning the subject of auditing and hypnosis, you abstract it down to a single black and white bit of meaning?

As you seem determined to misunderstand me, I'll try again.

The last few pages of this thread are great "food for thought" on the subject of auditing and hypnosis, and it may be helpful if they were made easier to find.
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
As you seem determined to misunderstand me, I'll try again.

The last few pages of this thread are great "food for thought" on the subject of auditing and hypnosis, and it may be helpful if they were made easier to find.

No worries, shader.

I get what you are saying.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
As you seem determined to misunderstand me, I'll try again.

The last few pages of this thread are great "food for thought" on the subject of auditing and hypnosis, and it may be helpful if they were made easier to find.

Just to throw in my two cents' worth; auditing is *not* just hypnotism. It's more than that. And, Scientology includes many other manipulative processes than 'auditing'. It's a MindFuck Cocktail :)

Zinj
 
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