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Scientology leader’s father signs a book deal, for ' RUTHLESS' (IF HE DIES, HE DIES)

Discussion in 'Books and Essays About Scientology' started by mockingbird, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Re: Scientology leader’s father signs a book deal, for ' RUTHLESS' (IF HE DIES, HE DI

    Stunning review, John. Humbling. Dark. Intense. Captivating. Honest with a knife's edge.

    Leaves me nearly speechless.

    I'm so delighted to see you here today with us, too. It's been a while and you've been sorely missed. What a pleasure to see your writing again! :clap: :clap: :clap:

    Thank you for your art, for sharing your heart with that rare, inspired and inspiring talent you have. Thanks, John, for being you and for the way you shine a bright spotlight wherever you aim it through your work.
     
  2. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Scientology leader’s father signs a book deal, for ' RUTHLESS' (IF HE DIES, HE DI

    Agreed. I'd also add that Ron Hubbard has a few handicaps to seeing the whole truth -

    - He did get special treatment in the SO. So he wouldn't have seen as much of the bad.
    - He is older now, and his mental faculties may not be up to the task of seeing through it all.
    - He has been 'in' for decades and only out for a few years. It took Marty almost a decade to totally dump it.

    He also has the unfortunate problem of sharing 50% of his DNA with David Miscavige.
     
  3. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless

    Thankyou John, thankyou.

    I started reading Ruthless, not only because it's an important anti scientology one, but also to read about Ron Miscavige's experiences as a father who took his family to Saint Hill.

    Why does a father uproot his whole family and way of life, take his children out of school and away from friends to follow his own dream? My father did the same thing and it affected over 5 generations (including my grandparents who disowned the family of 8 because we went). Five generations shattered because one man, my father, saw hope in the words of a cult leader and dragged his wife and 6 children to the UK where we ended up fending for ourselves.

    I haven't finished the book yet, I lost heart, just a little too close to home.
    I'm glad it brings more attention to the evil of the cult, however your conclusions echo my own. I was so happy to read your similar thoughts, done with your wonderful eloquence. :clap::rose:
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  4. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    Re: Scientology leader’s father signs a book deal, for ' RUTHLESS' (IF HE DIES, HE DI

    Mt. Carmel native in flap over his son, Scientology

    A relatively long and substantive article. I'll excerpt only two interesting points below.

    The News Item: Mt. Carmel native in flap over his son, Scientology

    http://www.newsitem.com/news/2016-0..._native_in_flap_over_his_son_Scientology.html


    * * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

    Turning point

    In 1985, David threw the backing of the church behind his father when Miscavige was accused of attempting to rape a woman. The case, which he dedicates a chapter to in his book, was thrown out due to the woman being unable to identify him as the attacker.

    After the case was dismissed, Miscavige felt he owed something to the church, so he decided he was going to join the Sea Org.
    He ended up stationed at the Golden Era Productions base in California, which is where the headquarters of Scientology is located and where his son now lives.

    He worked as a musician on the base, helping create music for video productions created by the church. After about a year, Miscavige wrote in his book that he was exiting the studio and upon seeing his son, yelled, “Hey Dave!” It was in that moment he learned his son had changed, when David’s response was a hard glare that said, “Who the hell do you think you are, yelling after me like that?”

    * * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *

    * * * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

    Ending ‘disconnection’

    Campaigns have been taken out against the book and people from the church have publicly ridiculed Miscavige, stating that his book is false and delusional, but he said he’s not bothered by it. Statements have even been released which allegedly came from his daughters, both of whom continue to no longer speak to him.

    “They accuse me of being a terrible father and rotten, and all the worst things they could say about me,” he said. “But just before that, they couldn’t stand to be away from me and arranged to come to spend a few days with me.

    “I expected this to happen,” he continued. “Once you leave, they will try to character assassinate you, but I just didn’t think they would stoop this low to do this to their father. I didn’t expect that. This is how they operate.”

    His goal in writing the book was to end the practice of disconnection and allow families to be brought back together. He has received support from others who have left Scientology, including Lisa Marie Presley and Leah Remini, the actress and comedian best known for her role as Carrie Heffernan on “The King of Queens.”

    Even with the knowledge that his son had him followed after leaving the church, Miscavige said he didn’t care or worry about that happening when releasing the book.

    “A lot of people don’t do this,” he said, “because the church, it is litigious and they do come after people. But I don’t care. I felt I had a duty to do it. The reason I did this book was to end disconnection.”

    * * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
     
  5. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Re: Scientology leader’s father signs a book deal, for ' RUTHLESS' (IF HE DIES, HE DI



    It's good to see someone saying it like it is, I didn't have the courage to.

    When I heard Miscavige Senior was writing the book I recoiled and couldn't help but see things from the viewpoint of someone who was never in because many never ins will read it ... I'm pretty sure most people would be appalled and I don't feel it helps at all when someone who indoctrinated their own kids into a cult later whines because his child grew up to became a true scientologist with all the traits both he and hubbard encouraged.

    It's not a good look.

    :no:

    I won't be reading it ... I saw all I needed to see in the interviews.

     
  6. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless


    This is really good.

    I read the book and I felt...weird about the tone.

    John has articulated what I felt but couldn't put my finger on.
     
  7. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless

    The tone didn't surprise me when I saw the author was Dan Koon. The thesis of the book -- i.e., that everything wrong and bad in Scientology is the fault of David Miscavige -- is what Independent Scientologists like Dan Koon have been trying to sell for years now.

    I have, however, detected some cognitive dissonance, or at least logical inconsistency, in some of Ron Miscavige's recent interviews. Ron has been saying that Scientology corrupted his son, which is inconsistent with the idea that it was his son who corrupted Scientology.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  8. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless

    Naw, not inconsistent at all:

    David joins scientology, has wins, goes on staff - has a small mean streak, works for Hubbard who is also mean - which reinforces and makes ok David's mean streak. Then, when he works his way into a position where he holds the reins, his mean streak becomes unbridled.

    You are just omitting the time, or are out sequence. That is the point of the book - he grew from a nice kid into a monster.

    The review had an interesting point - that Ron Miscavage has donated the DNA that grew in David:

    However, having read the "Sociopath Next Door", I think he was that way from the beginning, I don't think it was a learned behavior, or that "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" as Ron mentions in his book several times, as a justifier or cause for his kids behavior.

    I think it, David's sociopathy, was always there, it just came more out in the open as time passed, since nothing restrained him to withhold it.

    Mimsey
    https://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Ne...40958&sr=1-1&keywords=the+sociopath+next+door

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Scientology leader’s father signs a book deal, for ' RUTHLESS' (IF HE DIES, HE DI

    From Tony Ortega on John Duignan's review:

    more: http://tonyortega.org/2016/06/12/sc...eaturing-frank-frazetta-and-a-crashed-saucer/
     
  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless

    excellent review by John. I still think the book is good from the POV of still-ins reading it.

    There is something John mentions that I never knew:

    Is it true that certain levels of excutives have to read & get an exam of the Machiavelli piece?

    If so, does anybody have a link to it? I tried searching a bit but didn't find one.


     
  11. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless

    Re: red - if you read the below quote from the referenced article, you will realize why David wouldn't want his execs reading it.

    Great article breaking it down:
    http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/machiavelli-still-shocking-after-five-centuries-9126

    Any of this reminds you of a certain Scientology executive or two?
    you can get it at amazon


    https://www.amazon.com/Prince-Dover...763955&sr=8-1&keywords=machiavelli+the+prince

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  12. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless

    Machiavelli's treatise 'The Prince' is long (book size) but available in full in paperback:

    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-prince-niccolo-machiavelli/1116703820

    IDK or remember it being required, but certainly plenty of Machiavellian-style policies. Here are some quotes from 'The Prince" which you might find interesting :



    “Men ought either to be well treated or crushed, because they can avenge themselves of lighter injuries, of more serious ones they cannot;
    therefore the injury that is to be done to a man ought to be of such a kind that one does not stand in fear of revenge.”
    Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

    “Never attempt to win by force what can be won by deception.”
    Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

    “How we live is so different from how we ought to live that he who studies what ought to be done rather than what
    is done will learn the way to his downfall rather than to his preservation.”
    Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

    “…he who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived.”
    Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

    “it is much safer to be feared than loved because ...love is preserved by the link of obligation which,
    owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.”
    Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

    “The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar.”
    Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

    “Everyone sees what you appear to be, few experience what you really are.”
    Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

    “If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.”
    Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince


    https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1335445-il-principe

     
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless

    Thanks, I found spark notes:

    http://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/prince/
     
  14. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless

    Thanks Mims, I read your linked article, quite good.

    Now having a little understanding of The Prince, Niccolo Machiavelli, I reread John's article. Wow. :omg: It really makes sense now.

    I didn't think there was more evil to uncover in hubbard/scientology, boy was I wrong. I wonder what other evil lurks in the Hubbard Advice's & SO policy.



    [h=1][/h]
     
  15. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless

    I was wondering if Machiavelli was describing the sociopath in all his larcenous glory. Mimsey
     
  16. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    Re: John Duignan, author of The Complex, has posted a review of Ruthless

    I was thinking exactly the same thing.
     
  17. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Re: Scientology leader’s father signs a book deal, for ' RUTHLESS' (IF HE DIES, HE DI

    Great article, Mims, thanks! :thumbsup:

    John, was 'The Prince' on the FEBC?

    You've put a lot of research and work into this, John. It's just packed with insights. Just when I thought I had considered scientology from every direction, you strip off an entire new layer from it.

    Food for thought.
     
  18. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging

    Re: Scientology leader’s father signs a book deal, for ' RUTHLESS' (IF HE DIES, HE DI

    I am sorry, I cannot remember the exact check sheet that it belonged on, possibly Exec Status 2 or 3. I am quite sure that DM has since had it deleted from the Exec Statuses, for obvious reasons. It was there in 2001 when I did ES3.

    Not sure if that helps much, but it was there alright - the checksheet also included 'The Art of War', the go-to volume for European military strategists since medieval times, attributed Sun Tzu. I actually loved that little tome.
     
  19. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Re: Scientology leader’s father signs a book deal, for ' RUTHLESS' (IF HE DIES, HE DI

    I thought John's review was excellent.

    I did read Jenna's book and while I do like what she did with exscnkids I was not at all impressed by the book as i was kind of disappointed at how little Jenna really saw - even in retrospect.. I will not buy Ron snrs book .

    The only books I kind of enjoyed were John's, Nancy Many's and BFG and that's because I enjoy hearing stories of people I KNOW what a creep Miscavige is, I know what twits people who work at Int are - but I like people who can just write honestly about what they went through, laugh at themselves and at others and maybe not take themselves so seriously.

    For me - I love talking with other people who were in - but what I like talking about are the funny times, the weird times, the individuals who we knew.
     
  20. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Re: Scientology leader’s father signs a book deal, for ' RUTHLESS' (IF HE DIES, HE DI

    Thanks, John. I absolutely believe your memory is correct on this. I was out by then, though, so it's quite an eye-opener.

    DM would not have used those references if L Ron hadn't previously referred to them.

    It must have been the Exec Statuses. I never even heard of such courses, don't think they existed until after DM took over. From what I've heard, some of the GO checksheets had some really aggressive, militant and cloak and dagger references, too.