Scientology Makes Sense to Scientologists

[Alanzo]

After reading Carmel's last post #98; I went back to where this started, and it is very clear to me that the assumptions that you both have made (bolded above) are totally unsubstantiated.:confused2:

Not true.

My earlier post showed that Carmel's post did not take up any of FTS's points, but instead attacked FTS for being "pedantic" and a "black and white" thinker.

This was ad hominem.

And then, when Carmel took issue with my post, she said that she did not need to read every word literally, but instead to take up the "intent" of the poster.

Did you skip over that part, EP?

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Terminatedly handled...

Not true.

My earlier post showed that Carmel's post did not take up any of FTS's points, but instead attacked FTS for being "pedantic" and a "black and white" thinker.

This was ad hominem.

And then, when Carmel took issue with my post, she said that she did not need to read every word literally, but instead to take up the "intent" of the poster.

Did you skip over that part, EP?

Alonzo, you are wrong. Period. Wrong.

And you are worse than pedantic, as often the pedantic person is accurate.

Do you enjoy "3ping" (third-parting, for those who don't know)? :confused2:

I am done with this nonsense. End of Cycle!

Here, Alanzo! EP

 

[sunshine]

I can say that I was attracted by the idea of being able to really help others. Then, indeed, you agree with one datum that seems true and then, agreeing more and more and ignoring my counter-thoughts, labelling them as bank or natter thus losing my integrity to say what I really thought about certain things, and in that way I lost my power to be self-determined and the only way is out.
I have had some wonderful wins in Scientlogy and that kept me stuck (that is so well explained in idenics (www.idenics.com) and it makes total sense to me. I never felt as free as when I left the CoS. That was my biggest win!
I enjoy life a lot and I dropped all serious considerations about having to clear this part of the universe.

 

[Tiger Lily]

I can say that I was attracted by the idea of being able to really help others. Then, indeed, you agree with one datum that seems true and then, agreeing more and more and ignoring my counter-thoughts, labelling them as bank or natter thus losing my integrity to say what I really thought about certain things, and in that way I lost my power to be self-determined and the only way is out.
I have had some wonderful wins in Scientlogy and that kept me stuck (that is so well explained in idenics (www.idenics.com) and it makes total sense to me. I never felt as free as when I left the CoS. That was my biggest win!
I enjoy life a lot and I dropped all serious considerations about having to clear this part of the universe.

sunshine! I see that was your first post. I sure can relate to everything you said. . .it happened for me that way too. Isn't it nice to just enjoy life instead of feeling like you should be "on purpose" and not wasting this brief breath in eternity!! :wink2: If you ever feel like telling your story, lots of us would love to hear it!

-TL

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Hey Sunshine!

I can say that I was attracted by the idea of being able to really help others. Then, indeed, you agree with one datum that seems true and then, agreeing more and more and ignoring my counter-thoughts, labelling them as bank or natter thus losing my integrity to say what I really thought about certain things, and in that way I lost my power to be self-determined and the only way is out.
I have had some wonderful wins in Scientlogy and that kept me stuck (that is so well explained in idenics (www.idenics.com) and it makes total sense to me. I never felt as free as when I left the CoS. That was my biggest win!
I enjoy life a lot and I dropped all serious considerations about having to clear this part of the universe.

Welcome! and I agree with you "...no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should" comes to mind. I think it is a quote from the "Desiderada".

EP

 

[Tiger Lily]

Welcome! and I agree with you "...no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should" comes to mind. I think it is a quote from the "Desiderada".

EP

EP I love "Desiderata"!!! One of my very favorites. (Not surprised that you like it too!)

 

[lionheart]

I am saying that, especially in this case, the FEELING that you are being attacked goes away the more you look at what was actually written and set aside that FEELING and use REASON to discern the point the poster was making.

More often than not, you will see that the FEELING was a knee-jerk reaction to something that was never there. And that, through reading what is there, you will learn more about yourself, and more about the other person than trying to get their "intent" ever would.

Hubbard would always manipulate us by getting us to IGNORE WHAT WAS SAID and look at the "intent", which he usually twisted to make seem evil so that what they actually said would be "dead-agented" and discredited in your mind, and the whole person could be rejected.

It was manipulation. Don't keep using it after Scientology!

And don't keep doing to others what Hubbard did to you!

Learn the skills of critical thinking.

It's the best antidote to the poisonous manipulation of Scientology.

This is a good post - I was thinking the same reading this discourse between Carmel and FTS and lo, Alanzo said it for me! Could he be my lost twin after all?

I'd add one thing. Ronnie would get us to divine "intent" so long as we didn't divine his intent!

Everything was geared towards suspecting everybody except LRH!

 

[Alanzo]

Alonzo, you are wrong. Period. Wrong.

And you are worse than pedantic, as often the pedantic person is accurate.

Do you enjoy "3ping" (third-parting, for those who don't know)? :confused2:

I am done with this nonsense. End of Cycle!

Here, Alanzo! EP

I love it when you do that.

It's like fuel to F-16 fighter jets, Wheaties to Gold Medalists, and Spinach to Popeye!!!

 

[Alanzo]

I can say that I was attracted by the idea of being able to really help others. Then, indeed, you agree with one datum that seems true and then, agreeing more and more and ignoring my counter-thoughts, labelling them as bank or natter thus losing my integrity to say what I really thought about certain things, and in that way I lost my power to be self-determined and the only way is out.

I have had some wonderful wins in Scientlogy and that kept me stuck (that is so well explained in idenics (www.idenics.com) and it makes total sense to me. I never felt as free as when I left the CoS. That was my biggest win!
I enjoy life a lot and I dropped all serious considerations about having to clear this part of the universe.

Welcome Sunshine!!!

 

[lionheart]

I can say that I was attracted by the idea of being able to really help others. Then, indeed, you agree with one datum that seems true and then, agreeing more and more and ignoring my counter-thoughts, labelling them as bank or natter thus losing my integrity to say what I really thought about certain things, and in that way I lost my power to be self-determined and the only way is out.
I have had some wonderful wins in Scientlogy and that kept me stuck (that is so well explained in idenics (www.idenics.com) and it makes total sense to me. I never felt as free as when I left the CoS. That was my biggest win!
I enjoy life a lot and I dropped all serious considerations about having to clear this part of the universe.

Good first post Sunshine!

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Awww shucks...

I love it when you do that.

It's like fuel to F-16 fighter jets, Wheaties to Gold Medalists, and Spinach to Popeye!!!

What are friends for, anyway? :angel:

 

[Bee Sting]

I can say that I was attracted by the idea of being able to really help others. ....

Then, indeed, you agree with one datum that seems true and then, agreeing more and more and ignoring my counter-thoughts, ... labelling them as bank or natter thus losing my integrity to say what I really thought about certain things, and in that way I lost my power to be self-determined and the only way is out. ........

I never felt as free as when I left the CoS. That was my biggest win!

I enjoy life a lot and I dropped all serious considerations about having to clear this part of the universe.[/QUOTE]

Welcome Sunshine! I agree 100%. It's good to be free. :wink2:

I 've got too much to worry about in my own BEE hive than having to carry the responsibility pollenating the universe with clears.

Glad you came this way!

Lots of Honey Love

Bee Sting

 

[Human Again]

Carmel -

FTS' post showed NO "black or white thinking".

In your post, you have not taken up ANY of her points that she made, nor have you made any of your own. You have simply personally attacked FTS as "pedantic" and a "black and white thinker".

This is a flunk in logic and critical thinking, and it is the use of the same old personal attack technology that L Ron Hubbard used on us constantly. It's a very bad habit that we all need to break after having this personal attack onslaught waged on us for so long.

Look over FTSes post again and see EXACTLY what she wrote that you disagree with.

I think you will find very little.

Reason trumps emotion every time.

Try it. I'm sure you'll like it.

I know I am late to this discussion, and also poking my nose in where it is not my business, but what I observed on Carmel's part was not majorly personal attack, or even ad homimen, although some of her emotion shows and it appears she feels exasperated with FTS's constant championing of the tech.

What I obseved was Carmel taking FTS's argument back to it's principle and challenging that. The principle being that there are degrees of agreement and procedure is not the same as supporting documentation.

FTS's post looked very black and white to me. Stated as fact rather than opinion it challenged Carmel's orginating statements about degrees of accepance and denied them, albeit without mentioning them. FTS's multiple definition post appeared to attempt to close off any thoughts of someone agreeing to procedure while still reserving judgement on that which informed the procedure.

I am pretty sure there are many auditors on the board right now who did 100% standard procedure while having questions or queries or even disagreements on the material that supported the procedure.

with a sticky nose,

 

[Free to shine]

I am saying that, especially in this case, the FEELING that you are being attacked goes away the more you look at what was actually written and set aside that FEELING and use REASON to discern the point the poster was making.

More often than not, you will see that the FEELING was a knee-jerk reaction to something that was never there. And that, through reading what is there, you will learn more about yourself, and more about the other person than trying to get their "intent" ever would.

Hubbard would always manipulate us by getting us to IGNORE WHAT WAS SAID and look at the "intent", which he usually twisted to make seem evil so that what they actually said would be "dead-agented" and discredited in your mind, and the whole person could be rejected.

Not true.

My earlier post showed that Carmel's post did not take up any of FTS's points, but instead attacked FTS for being "pedantic" and a "black and white" thinker.

This was ad hominem.

And then, when Carmel took issue with my post, she said that she did not need to read every word literally, but instead to take up the "intent" of the poster.

Did you skip over that part, EP?

Thanks for noting that Alanzo.

I sit here going "WTF ?" :confused2:

I think you should start a thread on Ad Homs. It's a way of communicating that I wasn't aware of before joining this board, (though of course my education was cut short by scientology at age 14.) It seems so easily done within the scientology way of thinking - to attempt to divine "intent" behind a comment rather than look at the words as they are written, and then attack the person rather than discussing the issue being commented on.

It's really not very nice. The comments on this thread to my reasoned arguments leave me with the feeling that I had better not bloody well comment on anything Carmel says or it will be seen as a personal attack. Again - WTF? :confused2:

Luckily I am not going to take it that way though.

 

[Free to shine]

I know I am late to this discussion, and also poking my nose in where it is not my business, but what I observed on Carmel's part was not majorly personal attack, or even ad homimen, although some of her emotion shows and it appears she feels exasperated with FTS's constant championing of the tech.

What I obseved was Carmel taking FTS's argument back to it's principle and challenging that. The principle being that there are degrees of agreement and procedure is not the same as supporting documentation.

FTS's post looked very black and white to me. Stated as fact rather than opinion it challenged Carmel's orginating statements about degrees of accepance and denied them, albeit without mentioning them. FTS's multiple definition post appeared to attempt to close off any thoughts of someone agreeing to procedure while still reserving judgement on that which informed the procedure.

I am pretty sure there are many auditors on the board right now who did 100% standard procedure while having questions or queries or even disagreements on the material that supported the procedure.

with a sticky nose,

Ah...no, I don't champion the tech.

I was talking about what Zinj said in his opening post about "accepting" and that's why I included the definition. Scientologists are trained to accept and do it anyway, despite disagreements. I know because I did it too! That is the glue that binds the whole thing together.

 

[Free to shine]

And you are worse than pedantic, as often the pedantic person is accurate.

Well I've just been labelled pedantic - does that therefore make my comments accurate?

 

[Bee Sting]

Bee Sting you are hilarious!!!

:wink2:

What fun is life if you can't have fun with it? (Bee Sting quote anno 1979)

 

[Bee Sting]

Bee Sting you are hilarious!!!

Funny post Bee Sting

Originally Posted by Bee Sting
<snip>
Oh, by the way, I'll have Zinj on the rocks please!
<snip>

Carmel: I'd be with ya on that one BS, maybe we could share?

Bee Sting: hmm.... Nop!

Carmel:

Bee Sting: I prefer my own

Carmel: Although that may not be such a good idea ....

Bee Sting: Ditto!

Carmel: .. the zing in Zinj could peter out,

Bee Sting: Carmel, Carmel! Only if you use spritzer ...

Carmel: then things could get a bit boring around here.

Bee Sting: NEVER! Its' so much fun having you both here!

Love,

Bee Sting
Bz

 

[Carmel]

Bee Sting....

Carmel: I'd be with ya on that one BS, maybe we could share?

Bee Sting: hmm.... Nop!

Awww, dash it! Fair enough though.

Carmel: .. the zing in Zinj could peter out,

Bee Sting: Carmel, Carmel! Only if you use spritzer ...

OK then, just make sure that ya don't use any!

Have fun, Bee Sting - be sure to give us a debrief later.

 

[Bee Sting]

Awww, dash it! Fair enough though.


OK then, just make sure that ya don't use any!

Have fun, Bee Sting - be sure to give us a debrief later.

You bet ya!

Bzz