Scientology makes the lame walk..according to Debbie Cook's new letter

Lone Star

Crusader
You were joking? Oh, OK then. I just took your post in the context of the ever prevalent "when in doubt, speculate", which is actually more like "in the absence of actual data, make shit up" (I think a lot of scios/ex-scios caught that bug from Hubbard).

Pro tip: an appropriate emoticon can kinda substitute for a facial expression on a Message Board. :biggrin:

You probably don't know the back-story so I'll fill you in on just a small aspect of it... "forming a Squirrel Group" and "Practicing Scientology Without A License" are items included in the CofS' Official Panda DA Pack. The fact that I have nothing to do with any of these people or things doesn't seem to matter too much.
I must still be sensitive about it or something. :eyeroll:

You're right...I should use the emoticons more. My humor, even in person, tends to be dry. But it comes across better in person because people can see my facial expression, hear the tone of voice, etc... Plus, I tend to be a Joker and Degrader. It was never handled. I needed the Trashcan Rundown. :yes:

I knew you had to have a sense of humor though because your forum name is very funny.

Anyway, thanks for understanding and for the advice.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
As I’ve said on ESMB before, I love to cook. I love to cook for my family, my friends…for the folks I love and folks like being with. .. Just about every Sunday I cook a dinner for some folks.

IMO, cooking for someone, feeding another, is a way to say, “I love you” or “I appreciate you” or “I simply like the fact that you are alive”.

Unfortunately, I can’t share today's dinner with all Y’all but I can share today’s menu.


Prime chuck eye pot roast topped with Greek herb seasoning, carrots, creamer onions and Dutch potatoes

Savory mushroom kettle gravy, yeast roles & apple cider vinegar and white onion cured cucumber slices

Fresh cut green beans, mushroom pate, heavy cream and sweet onion casserole

Mashed skin-on red potato whipped with butter, sour cream, chives, garlic, ground black peppercorns and sea salt

Baby romaine, radicchio and shredded red cabbage tossed in an olive oil, red wine vinegar and herb vinaigrette topped with shaved red onion, feather sliced avocados, Calibri tomatoes and brine cured green olives and sprinkled with grated parmesan

Homemade vanilla ice cream with assorted Girl Scout cookies



So what does this have to do with the subject to hand and the most excellent posts from a bunch of Folks on this Thread?

Scn destroys, along with individuals, relationships and Families.

Scn seeks to instill in its Staff Members contempt of Domesticity and the mundane true pleasures of Living and Friendship.

Scn uses food, nourishment and sustenance as an implement of punishment for “errant ones” within its most ardently fervent Staff, the SO.

Scn, via its internecine intelligence system of reporting on each other, interrogation system (Sec Checks) and graven violation of Priest/Penitent Privilege, seeks to control every aspect of thought, word and deed of the faithful.

There are no Church Potlucks for fellowship and sharing… only catered plastic “Events” so as to gather the flocked for steering and sheering.

There are no fish fries for the fun of it at the Shack…only video ops for feeding the flocked flock carefully selected scraps and tidbits.

I have opened my home on a few occasions to refugees/escapees from the SO and gravely disturbed train wrecks from KNOT’s. What they needed most to begin their healing process was Kindness, Security, Peace, Rest and Nourishment.

What they did not need was more Scn.

They also needed Time, Understanding, Patience and Acceptance. Two of the most cathartic moments were when they began to accept the concept that they had done nothing wrong and when they began to realize that they had a Life and Future in the World outside of the SO or without Scn.

Spinnin’ Marty, Mike Grinner and Debbie of ARC are, IMO, of a different feather. They did do something wrong and won’t face up to it…oh, they’ll sure enough “apologize” and admit it but those are words and "the 'Devil' made me do it" quibbling…You just can’t “make a meal” for someone with words. For them, there is no Life, no Future without Scn and the only thing wrong with the SO was the guy that stole El Ron’s Magik Boots. ..They’re entire agonized future depends upon what they do here and now, with and in, Scientology.

Family, Friends, Fellowship, Freedom, Fun and Food...whadda wonderful World! And, along with one other “F”, all vilified, vivisected or verboten in The New Civilization.

Time to go stir the gravy and take the roast out to rest a little before cutting.

Bon Appetite!


Face :)
 
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LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
And there, RIGHT THERE, is the point of agreement/disagreement that just about every argument on ESMB stems from.

Some want the whole thing GONE. I happen to think that will be impossible. Scn is too established and legally granted religious status in too many countries now just to make it go away.

Some want it rehabilitated. I happen to think that's impossible too. You can't rehabilitate Scientology with Scientology.

That is the bottom line realist view I tend to agree with. But also realistically its membership will wither away to an irreducible minimum and most people will avoid it and scilons like the plague.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
I edited my post & edited your quote of it.

I meant to type that you CAN'T rehabilitate Scientology with Scientology. BIG Difference. Bad typo.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
As I’ve said on ESMB before, I love to cook. I love to cook for my family, my friends…for the folks I love and folks like being with. .. Just about every Sunday I cook a dinner for some folks.

IMO, cooking for someone, feeding another, is a way to say, “I love you” or “I appreciate you” or “I simply like the fact that you are alive”.

Unfortunately, I can’t share today's dinner with all Y’all but I can share today’s menu.


Prime chuck eye pot roast topped with Greek herb seasoning, carrots, creamer onions and Dutch potatoes

Savory mushroom kettle gravy, yeast roles & apple cider vinegar and white onion cured cucumber slices

Fresh cut green beans, mushroom pate, heavy cream and sweet onion casserole

Mashed skin-on red potato whipped with butter, sour cream, chives, garlic, ground black peppercorns and sea salt

Baby romaine, radicchio and shredded red cabbage tossed in an olive oil, red wine vinegar and herb vinaigrette topped with shaved red onion, feather sliced avocados, Calibri tomatoes and brine cured green olives and sprinkled with grated parmesan

Homemade vanilla ice cream with assorted Girl Scout cookies



So what does this have to do with the subject to hand and the most excellent posts from a bunch of Folks on this Thread?

Scn destroys, along with individuals, relationships and Families.

Scn seeks to instill in its Staff Members contempt of Domesticity and the mundane true pleasures of Living and Friendship.

Scn uses food, nourishment and sustenance as an implement of punishment for “errant ones” within its most ardently fervent Staff, the SO.

Scn, via its internecine intelligence system of reporting on each other, interrogation system (Sec Checks) and graven violation of Priest/Penitent Privilege, seeks to control every aspect of thought, word and deed of the faithful.

There are no Church Potlucks for fellowship and sharing… only catered plastic “Events” so as to gather the flocked for steering and sheering.

There are no fish fries for the fun of it at the Shack…only video ops for feeding the flocked flock carefully selected scraps and tidbits.

I have opened my home on a few occasions to refugees/escapees from the SO and gravely disturbed train wrecks from KNOT’s. What they needed most to begin their healing process was Kindness, Security, Peace, Rest and Nourishment.

What they did not need was more Scn.

They also needed Time, Understanding, Patience and Acceptance. Two of the most cathartic moments were when they began to accept the concept that they had done nothing wrong and when they began to realize that they had a Life and Future in the World outside of the SO or without Scn.

Spinnin’ Marty, Mike Grinner and Debbie of ARC are, IMO, of a different feather. They did do something wrong and won’t face up to it…oh, they’ll sure enough “apologize” but those are words…you just can’t “make a meal” for someone with words. For them, there is no Life, no Future without Scn and the only thing wrong with the SO was the guy that stole El Ron’s Magik Boots. ..They’re entire agonized future depends upon what they do here and now, with and in, Scientology.

Family, Friends, Fellowship, Freedom, Fun and Food...whadda wonderful World! And, along with one other “F”, all vilified, vivisected or verboten in The New Civilization.

Time to go stir the gravy and take the roast out to rest a little before cutting.

Bon Appetite!


Face :)

Excellent post Face - you speak of the real reasons we live.

Also that's the best Summary of Outpoints of the Cult of Greed I've seen.

And btw, please pm me with your address and time of your next sunday dinner - I'll be there for a meal to die for!

:eyeroll::eyeroll::eyeroll::eyeroll::eyeroll:
 
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Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I think it's highly unlikely that these things will come to pass. Even Marty told us "the Church is dead". It's one of the few times I agreed wholeheartedly with something he said.

Debbie Cook, in referencing a Kinder, Gentler, More Compassionate Church, is obviously talking about an imaginary Church Of Scientology, something other than the actual Church Of Scientology.

(You already knew that, right?)


and therein is the problem, Panda. The likes of Cook, Rathbun, Rinder, Logan and the rest are delusional. They keep looking back at the CofS past through their rose colored glasses and they miss the point that Hubbard's "organization" inevitably leads to fanaticism and bigotry and all the horrors that engenders. They gloss over the abuse that Hubbard inflicted and encouraged.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
At first I thought you were joking or writing a parody. But I see that you are seriously questioning information that is widely available on the internet about Debbie Cook crush regging Maria Pia Gardini over a million dollars and ruining her finances---while Debbie personally pocketed $40,000 of the poor woman's money so she could buy herself a new car. Try Googling it if you actually want to know....

Alrighty then!! This is what I'm talkin' bout! There's nothing wrong with pointing out, especially with dox, the hypocrisy and deception of former church execs now acting like heroes.

Thanks for posting this document.

And Debbie, I still don't believe you, and I still don't trust you. But don't worry, the checks will still be flowing in Baby. You have a lot of fans. Maybe you can buy another new car soon! :clap:
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
It was almost like a Cloak of Invisibility to some. :hysterical:



Batted down? How about "commented upon".



When in doubt, speculate.



:hysterical:

Actually No speculation, after my first innocent post and trolling responses, I received a few messages from people confirming exactly what I said I thought - Jim is dating someone in the ex social circle in Oz and therefore some people, you and TG, attack me for making an inquiry. closing ranks, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Problem is this is something both Jim and "Lana M" post very openly about their relationship on Martys blog and I'm only aware of anything to do with Jim or anyone in Martyland due to their own damn posts telling me.

I honestly have no desire to stir up any BS or drama. I didn't have any idea Jim and his girl were part of some friendship circle with you. In fact, I didnt think Jim would be hanging out with anyone that disagrees with the tech.

Unfortunately, rather than giving me a PM or relevant response to my initial question I got a troll response and took it somewhat seriously - let's just say the troll backfired.

Thing is I really don't care, it was a passing curiosity I had due to their own posts about it on M's blog and I had wondered WTF happened to the org he opened. I found it strange no one in Oz had said boo about it so I asked - But the trolling and weird responses here blew it up unnecessarily.

What really bothers me is that you knew the issue was it touching upon a personal relationship and rather than leaving it at NYB - you make accusations of DA and OSA, which is pretty fucked up.

Great example of Striestand effect here. What could have been a barely noticed post or two turns into 5 pages because you both chose to play a BS game rather than a bit of honesty or straight forwardness.

Also, if you don't want your stuff discussed online by others then don't fucking post about your life online in a totally public forum. Jim and "Lana M" put their business online multiple times online so they really only have themselves to blame.

Believe it or not while I am curious about the ongoing soap opera of the cult I abhor pointless drama like this. I got my answer about crotchity old JIm Ronbot Logan in the most convoluted way imaginable and it attracted more attention than I ever dreamed thanks to TG and Pandas reactions and replies. But now I'm done, like I said in my second post on the matter, I would drop it like a hot potato if it opened a can of worms involving the social circles in Oz and it certainly did with TG and Panda T so now I shall drop it entirely.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
That is the bottom line realist view I tend to agree with. But also realistically its membership will wither away to an irreducible minimum and most people will avoid it and scilons like the plague.

Right. And to my mind, that will be/is the "end" of Scientology. And really, we are almost there now.

I can't see anything happening like what most of us would like to see happen. I think there is a possibility DM might end up in jail eventually, but Scientology will keep the buildings & the money & their secret mountainside vaults etc. Some new person from within (not MR, MR or DC) will take over and it will be business as usual until that person becomes LRH/DM all over again. Rinse & repeat.

MR, MR & DC *might* put an Org together on the outside & start up in competition to the CoS for real, but that will take years. As Lulu said earlier, to be truly "on source" they need Org structures. These guys are true believers trying their hardest to save something that has already died.

All speculation of course! :biggrin:
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
<snip to cut to the chase..>
Believe it or not while I am curious about the ongoing soap opera of the cult I abhor pointless drama like this. I got my answer about crotchity old JIm Ronbot Logan in the most convoluted way imaginable and it attracted more attention than I ever dreamed thanks to TG and Pandas reactions and replies. But now I'm done, like I said in my second post on the matter, I would drop it like a hot potato if it opened a can of worms involving the social circles in Oz and it certainly did with TG and Panda T so now I shall drop it entirely.
Just out of curiosity and before we get completely done with it, what do you imagine my connection to Jim Logan or Lana (or TG1, for that matter) might be?

BTW, you assessment of the Striesand Effect is a little off. Count the posts and see how many of them are by me or TG1.
 
It's a joke in reply to what looked like another joke. Do you really think someone in Corsica told me this stuff? I'm beginning to worry about some of you. Lighten up.
Ahhh. The old "Corica" ploy... yes I know it well. But we all know you have someone on the inside of Int Base, with access to the telex machine that is sending you the hot dope.... Don't worry, the plant is so deep OSA will never discover he/she/it.... Your secret is safe with us.

Mimsey the spy
 
Scn will fail because it is based on lies.
No, it won't. Ron is banking on these tech gems - lies persist! Alter-is persists! Re-read your axioms. Being based on lies, I'm afraid Emma is right, it will hang on like a damn leach.

Mimsey
 

jenni with an eye

Silver Meritorious Patron
Actually No speculation, after my first innocent post and trolling responses, I received a few messages from people confirming exactly what I said I thought - Jim is dating someone in the ex social circle in Oz and therefore some people, you and TG, attack me for making an inquiry. closing ranks, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Problem is this is something both Jim and "Lana M" post very openly about their relationship on Martys blog and I'm only aware of anything to do with Jim or anyone in Martyland due to their own damn posts telling me.

I didn't see it as an "attack" on you for making an "inquiry" (but you already knew the data from Martyland as you've just said)...I thought it sat rather nicely in the :whocares: basket. :biggrin:

I honestly have no desire to stir up any BS or drama. I didn't have any idea Jim and his girl were part of some friendship circle with you. In fact, I didnt think Jim would be hanging out with anyone that disagrees with the tech. Unfortunately, rather than giving me a PM or relevant response to my initial question I got a troll response and took it somewhat seriously - let's just say the troll backfired.

Assumption oops sorry no speculation, yep that's right. :yes:

Thing is I really don't care, it was a passing curiosity I had due to their own posts about it on M's blog and I had wondered WTF happened to the org he opened. I found it strange no one in Oz had said boo about it so I asked - But the trolling and weird responses here blew it up unnecessarily.

Obviously you do care or at least have an interest in pursuing this.

What really bothers me is that you knew the issue was it touching upon a personal relationship and rather than leaving it at NYB - you make accusations of DA and OSA, which is pretty fucked up.

Great example of Striestand effect here. What could have been a barely noticed post or two turns into 5 pages because you both chose to play a BS game rather than a bit of honesty or straight forwardness.

Seriously....:hysterical:

Also, if you don't want your stuff discussed online by others then don't fucking post about your life online in a totally public forum. Jim and "Lana M" put their business online multiple times online so they really only have themselves to blame. Believe it or not while I am curious about the ongoing soap opera of the cult I abhor pointless drama like this.

The only one continuing to discuss this is...let me see....:biggrin:

I got my answer about crotchity old JIm Ronbot Logan in the most convoluted way imaginable and it attracted more attention than I ever dreamed thanks to TG and Pandas reactions and replies. But now I'm done, like I said in my second post on the matter, I would drop it like a hot potato if it opened a can of worms involving the social circles in Oz and it certainly did with TG and Panda T so now I shall drop it entirely.

"social circles" ?...assumption :yes: speculation :yes:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Scientology makes the lame walk.. JUST SPECULATING

I think M&M&Friends are mainly doing a PR handling aimed at rehabilitating L. Ron's and L. Ron's Scientology's reputation.

This lays the groundwork for the eventual replacement of Miscavige with a tall charming charismatic "ARC"-full (with emphasis on Affinity) new leader.

Afterwards, don't be surprised if Miscavige - probably being blackmailed - does a mea culpa, tearfully announcing that the years of hard work, saving Scientology, holding the "Church" together, and the battle with the IRS, which he ultimately won, combined with other pressures, resulted in his accumulating large amounts of by-passed charge, and, as a result of no-auditing, and the out-ethics condition of "refusing auditing," led to his out-LRH Ethics, off-LRH-policy, and out-LRH-Tech actions. Then he will announce that, having resigned from the position of "COB," that he will be entering a program of repair auditing and general auditing to straighten out his case.

Marty and Miscavige will become friends again, and, unified, Scientology will march forward into a new era.

Then, somehow, some more OT levels need to be found, or invented, so that Scientologists have OT 9, 10, 11, 12, etc., just as L. Ron promised.

Then the Super Power building can either be completed, or an announcement can be made that the building is going to be used for other purposes, and that (L. Ron's original and simpler) Super Power can be delivered anywhere, and will be available in all Class V Orgs and above with six months.

At this point expect to see a drastic increase in active Scientology membership, and a "war is over" celebration between warring factions.

Will this happen? Or any part of it?

Wait and see.

If it does, and the Clear (Slave) bracelets are loosened so they no longer chafe, and a series of new OT levels are released, Scientology will re-surge.

And will it have changed?, no - only superficially.

In the meantime, the Internet will still be here, and Scientology - as it actually was and is - can continue to be described, and Scientology hates being described.

Scientology, being fully and accurately described, will limit the damage that Scientology can do.

See the link at the bottom of this post, and see the rest of ESMB. :)
 
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TG1

Angelic Poster
Bunny,

For the record and on the record, I don't know Jim Logan or "Lana M" (don't even know who that is). They are not in my social circle, and I'm not in theirs. But if L&L have found love, then good on 'em. There's not enough love in the world.

And I am not from Oz. Nor have I ever met any of the Oztralians here at ESMB. But I'd love to, for I love Oz (who doesn't), having been there once on holiday.

Unlike you, I usually enjoy talking with anybody, no matter what they believe or don't believe. In fact, how would I ever learn what someone believes if I didn't talk to them? And I would never "disconnect" from someone just because they believed something I didn't believe. That's not my style.

So why'd I yank your chain? Why'd I "lie" in response to your question about who / where Jim Logan was and who he was sleeping with? Because my irritation with your arrogance about who's sleeping with whom coincided with my getting tired of listening to you rant for 48 hours over and over about how much you despise Debbie Cook. You committed the ultimate internet sin -- you were boring.

Also, are you really so clueless that you don't know how much like a Church of Scientology OSA D.A. pack your repetitive ranting sounded like? Or how much the timing of your post -- prior to a summary judgment motion and hearing in San Antonio -- coulda / woulda / mighta been an OSA troll post? Any OSA influences in your own background? What are YOUR sins?

Truth is, I don't know you or anything about you, including whether you're an ex, a critic, or something else. For the record, I'm an ex and have been one longer than most people here were Scios.

And one more time, I don't want the Church of Scientology to continue. I've said so here many times. (Actually, I think a mod deleted one of my last statements to that effect because I stated it too violently and violated ESMB's rules of posting behavior.)

However, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I'm old. Really old. Ancient, in fact. Victories like the one most of us would like to see happen here usually take a long time to happen. In the real world you have to chip, chip away at ideas once they've become institutionalized if you seriously want them to disappear. And you have to be willing to play the long game. Only unsophisticates think that single guerilla actions win wars. That's bullshit.

I am also really tired of anybody here thinking that because some of us are realists and know this war isn't over and isn't going to be over in the next six months that we are apologists for the Church of Scientology. No fucking way, Jose'. That's just stupid.

I'll stop there.

TG1
 
Yes, I'd guess that you are right. Many of the Indies and Not-Quite-Outs seek to "remove the cancer without killing the patient". They have yet to realise that the Church Of Scietology is already dead and performing what amounts to an autopsy won't/can't possibly save it.

I don't see that the COS is already dead, but if it was dead why would you need to worry about how people talk about Cook and any of them?
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Ahhh. The old "Corica" ploy... yes I know it well. But we all know you have someone on the inside of Int Base, with access to the telex machine that is sending you the hot dope.... Don't worry, the plant is so deep OSA will never discover he/she/it.... Your secret is safe with us.

Mimsey the spy

You know the beauty of getting intel from the telex is that it can't be hacked since this is an internet world now. You're very prescient because the plant is actually a he/she/it.
If LRH had been prescient he would have forseen the internet coming. :duh:
 
Yes, Mick, I know how you feel about it all. My point really is; couldn't we save all this righteous angst until a more appropriate time, like maybe until after the immediate battle is won?

I grant no free passes but I support Debbie and Wayne in their efforts at this time.

Who is "we"?

Whose battle.
 
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