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Scientology Power

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
So if what really keeps the CofS going is a hierarchy of ego-stoking status and guilt-relieving blame of others, has Miscavige somehow made this work more efficiently for more Scientologists?

No he has not, and the simple proof of that is that the membership/ participation numbers in scientology have been on a steady decline every since Miscavige took over.

For a little while after L Ron died, the "dedicated" members carried on with firm resolve because of their loyalty to the old man, so the membership numbers did not fall, might even have risen a bit.

But after awhile, scientology ceased to deliver the "needed and wanted" that AJ so aptly describes in the OP, and numbers began to fall. Numbers went into a sharp slide to the current level when the real story about scientology was experienced by those inside, who wouldn't take it any more and left, and when it was exposed to the broader public, who now can't be misled into joining.

L Ron was a masterful confidence man who convinced his "marks" that giving to his "enterprise" their all -- their money, their lives, and the lives of their children -- was just the very, very best idea that YOU (the mark) ever had! welcome aboard!

He was assisted in this endeavor by the limits of communication media of his time; advent of the freedom of communication via internet helped dissemble his game.

Judging by his behavior, I say that Miscavige doesn't understand L Ron's game at all. He MIGHT be more interested in the power and prestige than in developing his so-called "spirituality" through training and auditing, or he MIGHT be stupid enough to be a "true believer" in the efficacy of scientology "tech" and "the cause" and his personal responsibility to protect and preserve it -- it's hard to tell from the little we know about him. But he CERTAINLY does not understand how L Ron managed to pull it off.

Miscavige has none of the "charm" that L Ron used to "hypnotize" his marks (think snake charmer) and get them not only to WILLINGLY follow his agenda but to end with a resounding "thank you Ron for taking from me my life and all my resources!"

Miscavige has ALWAYS used NOTHING BUT threats, force, and intimidation to maintain his position and enforce compliance from others. Without real laws (beyond internal scientology policies and orders) and an army or a true police force with guns and ammo and real jails (thank god!), he won't be able to keep this up much longer and is bound to fail; it's just a matter of time, and it's taking longer than many of us would like.

IMO the real danger of scientology in the future is that it will once again be controlled by someone who really does understand how L Ron worked it, someone who has the same kind of "guru" quality, and who picks up where L Ron left off.

Then once again the possiblity could arise that the "philosophy" will be insidiously permeating our society driven by those fanatic followers who are thoroughly convinced that scientology should be practiced by everyone everywhere "for our own good" and that any critical discussion or ridicule of it should be construed as a "hate crime."

Look out for that day because in a world run by scientology, everyone will have a stat, and yours better be UP or it's off to the gulag with you! "Rehab" will take on a whole different meaning than it has now.
 

Carmel

Crusader
I am getting a little sick of people blaming it all on Miscavige for the way the Church of Scientology is today.

No organization can operate just from the top. Miscavige did not make people agree with him.

They either did or they didn’t.

The way the Church of Scientology is now is the logical consequences of the religion and philosophy of Scientology. How could it be otherwise?

Again, the problem is not Miscavige. He’s a punk.

So why did all these powerful OTs get hustled by a punk?

Because at every step of the way he did their bidding.

He created the atmosphere, just like Hubbard did, that they were special and elite beings, above mere humans.

Miscavige and others wanted power in the Church and OTs gave it to them in exchange for what they wanted.

Power in Scientology does not start at the top and work its way down.

How many people have even met or dealt with Miscavige personally?

Scientology power is a web;
every disconnection,
every KR,
every sneer someone gives to a person who is sick and considered PTS,
every conspiracy theory anyone subscribes to within the Church,
every time some public used clout to gain an advantageous result in an unjust chaplain cycle,
every Scientology businessman who justified underpaying his employees because they were an “on purpose” company,
every nodding of their heads in agreement at ridiculous CCHR claims

all these things is where the power lays.

And this isn’t only done by the people at the top.

It was and is done by the field OTs and others now crying foul because their egos aren’t being stroked anymore.

They went along as far as they did because there was something in it for them.

If Scientology was, as was said “a very useful technology that can produce phenomenal results” people would be beating a path to its door.

People aren't.

These OTs got the leader and the Church they deserved.

The Anabaptist Jacques
True TAJ......A valid perspective on all this that often gets forgotten or denied. :)

LRH wouldn't have had the power he did, to harm so many, if the individuals in the group stood up and said "no".

DM wouldn't have had the power that he has had, if the individuals in the group stood up and said "wtf?"

Without the vast majority of those on crew, on staff, and in the field, all sucking up as they did, the Scn machine as we know it, would never have been.

LRH and DM would have been f'ck nothing, and couldn't have gotten away with their totalitarian dictatorships, if the hundreds and thousands below them said "no" when "no" was in order.

Instead, too many went ooaagghhh, and clapped and cheered, just 'cause everyone else did, it seemed. "Human nature" is to blame, IMO. There's a side of "human nature" that is abhorrent, and one which has permitted or perpetrated so many atrocites in the past (outside of Scn). From my experience, inside and outside of Scn, "group think" is a hard one to rise above - The percentage of those who can and do, is small.

LRH and DM and their henchmen certainly knew about group think, and *used* it to their advantage. Those who used it have something to answer for, but so do those who fell prey to their tactics and jumped on the band wagon because it'd be an easier ride.

In my mind, be it human nature or not, there isn't an *excuse* for the actions of thousands which have given the CofS the power it has had to do such harm - Without those actions, it would have never had the power. By the same token though, I see the *reason* it has happened.

You'd think people would learn, but clearly many don't or won't. We're seeing the same thing again in, another camp, as we speak.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Spot on, TAJ.:thumbsup:

I'm increasingly nauseated by those who blame it all on DM. :puke:

They conveniently forget DM entered the SO as a 14 year-old boy and learnt all he knows as a member of CMO and then working under Hubbard even closer at Gold and ASI etc..:yes:

It could have been worse - imagine Norman Starkey as head of the cult? I shudder to think of it. At least DM started out as semi-human.:nervous:

Amazing how some cannot see what's in front of them in case they have to admit they got conned.:whistling:
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Originally posted by Scoots
Amazing how some cannot see what's in front of them in case they have to admit they got conned

Exactly.

I don't think they want to see ... I suppose some have businesses to protect and relationships to try and retain and ego's to feed ... but so did we!

Reality is not always easy to take ... it hurts and embarrasses us, it is mortifying when you first realise you have been well and truly stitched up ... but then it is all downhill from that very point and your life becomes your own again.

:fly2:

Hubbard was a con man ... end of.
 

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
we said Kutta

Absolutely right on the button TAJ. And that was me. In it for the promised personal gains, great abilities, making postulates stick etc. Those promises sure did stroke my ego. *Spiritual freedom* - what the hell is that???? No, I was after here and now ability, which boils down to wanting POWER, desiring to be superior to others. Clearing the planet? No way. If I examined my heart I would have admitted that was a completely deluded idea anyway, and not what I was there for. It is all ego driven IMO. Others apparently did have a humanitarian streak and totally believed they were helping to bring sanity to mankind. I can't for the life of me get my head around how that could be thought a possibility, scientology being such small beer in the global scheme of things.

I was in before DM; I bought into it and offered LRH power on a plate over my mind, my independent rational thinking, my intellectual and moral integrity, my creativity, my life. But thankfully, only for a short time.

Even after 30 years of being out, it feels so good to acknowledge this again to myself. I just love giving the fingers to all that balderdash.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your post touches me Kutta, especially as we worked together in this supprussive system, and I still remember that you were one of the few humane characters from my time.
After I had said I wanted to leave I was either ignored, or heard nasty comments from people at Saint Hill, partly stemming from my PC folder.
It was so degrading to see my PC folder being passed around with so much personal data in there from my only auditing I had received, (confessiosnal auditing.)
Then I had to get even more confessional auditing. (sec checks)
The auditor I shall also never forget, and elderly lady fromn South Africa (short dark hair, maybe in her 70's).
I think I even saw her cringe to ask me, a 19 year old lad, such questions as
"what are your crimes toward $cientology?

or
"have you committed a crime toward L Ron Hubbard"

Alone the question was enough to make you get a horrible feeling in your stomach.
I actually felt sorry for her to have to ask me such questions.
She (not even a satff-member) was being used for their evil purposes.

And you Kutta, I will also always remember you actually being the only one to underestand me wanting to leave, I could see it in your eyes.
That was 1980.
I think shortly after that you left yourself didn't you.
I remember your son tooa s you know.

How I would love to get together and drink a beer or cuppa and look back and reflect, maybe laugh about this time.
How many others from that time are 'out', I think most of them.
 

Meccaanon

Patron
So if what really keeps the CofS going is a hierarchy of ego-stoking status and guilt-relieving blame of others, has Miscavige somehow made this work more efficiently for more Scientologists?

I can imagine that on the status side, he might well have. His building schemes do eventually give average 'parishioners' nice buildings to be proud of. Perhaps his emphasis on glossy book series and cds and stuff has done the same. He's been marketing status symbols, bringing out more of them at regular intervals, like the World of Warcraft introducing new levels and lewt every few months. Indeed, the CofS resembles an MMORPG in many ways now, with its multiply branching trophy tree. Is this DM's legacy? Was the spreading tree of status symbols already there in Hubbard's day, or did DM actually introduce it? Did he at least initiate a greater emphasis on it, or make it more concrete?

What about the blame side? Has DM in any way made it easier or more effective for the mass (such as it is) of Scientologists to identify culprits for their problems and shed responsibility onto them?


You've hit an important nail on the head. Scientology is a Live Action Role Playing game. Not a religion.

It's a LARP where the participators are told that it's deadly serious and they cannot continue unless they believe it's deadly serious. The players don't know. Upper management knows and defends this secret every single day.

It all fell through a nice little loophole in our society, the one marked "religious tolerance." Hubbard (not DM) wiggled his whole nasty package around until it could quietly hide in plain sight and gather people and resources. It's a marvel that society allowed it enough latitude to grow as much as it did.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
You've hit an important nail on the head. Scientology is a Live Action Role Playing game. Not a religion.

It's a LARP where the participators are told that it's deadly serious and they cannot continue unless they believe it's deadly serious. The players don't know. Upper management knows and defends this secret every single day.

It all fell through a nice little loophole in our society, the one marked "religious tolerance." Hubbard (not DM) wiggled his whole nasty package around until it could quietly hide in plain sight and gather people and resources. It's a marvel that society allowed it enough latitude to grow as much as it did.
Yes, it's a status cult driven by vanity.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I disagree that he did what OTs wanted. Remember when DM brought down the missions?

The mission I went to - like the others in the US - was visited by Sea Ogre staff who charged them $20,000 per day for their fee. In the 1970's that was a lot of money for even the top missions in the country.

Crushed, they asked the staff to pay up, or join Sea Ogre.

That's not doing the bidding of OTs. I feel that DM is a vicious egomaniac who works on his own terms.

Quick second point is how he edited books and policy, which caused culties great discomfort.

The only buddy that I know he has is Tom Cruise! I bet even Tommy Davis is sick of taking bullets for the dwarf.
 

Kutta

Silver Meritorious Patron
From exseaorguk:
Your post touches me Kutta, especially as we worked together in this supprussive system, and I still remember that you were one of the few humane characters from my time.
After I had said I wanted to leave I was either ignored, or heard nasty comments from people at Saint Hill, partly stemming from my PC folder.
It was so degrading to see my PC folder being passed around with so much personal data in there from my only auditing I had received, (confessiosnal auditing.)
Then I had to get even more confessional auditing. (sec checks)
The auditor I shall also never forget, and elderly lady fromn South Africa (short dark hair, maybe in her 70's).
I think I even saw her cringe to ask me, a 19 year old lad, such questions as
"what are your crimes toward $cientology?

or
"have you committed a crime toward L Ron Hubbard"

Alone the question was enough to make you get a horrible feeling in your stomach.
I actually felt sorry for her to have to ask me such questions.
She (not even a satff-member) was being used for their evil purposes.

And you Kutta, I will also always remember you actually being the only one to underestand me wanting to leave, I could see it in your eyes.
That was 1980.
I think shortly after that you left yourself didn't you.
I remember your son tooa s you know.

How I would love to get together and drink a beer or cuppa and look back and reflect, maybe laugh about this time.
How many others from that time are 'out', I think most of them.

Wow exseaoruk, that sure did bring a few tears to my eyes. I remember you so well now. It must have been hell for you, and I am so glad that you walked away from that insanity and cruelty.

I too would love to get together with us exes from back then. Don't know if I would be able to make though, being so far away here in NZ.

I have posted before how during my time as SSO, so many SO members came to me and said they wanted to leave. It was such a miserable time for everyone I think, with no staff auditing, almost zero pay, no heating at Stonelands (probably not at Bullards either where I think you were) during the cold, cold grey English winter, crap food or beans and rice, little sleep and so on. I hope that I revealed my agreement with their complaints even if in some unspoken way. I am so glad that you could see that I understood you wanting to get out of there. I did leave pretty soon after, in early 1981.

So many have left from our time, but I am amazed and saddened when I hear of those who are still there or somewhere else in the scientology world.

It is fantastic that we have both gone on to so much better lives.
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