scientology question

pang

New Member
hi, I really hope you can help. My son is more or less a scientologist. he does not seem to be active but often sees things as attacks.

I have not seen him in over 7 years. I finally got to see him and meet my 8 month old grandbaby and the baby's mom. The baby and mom-not scientologist were great. Son was a beast. I think he was determinedly trying to alienate us. he has already alienated her parents.

Anyway one of the things at the beginning was that I am decrepit and pathetic. This is because i did not read a scientology booklet 12 years ago when circumstances and my husband lost me my house. My husband has since realized that you can not make up for lack of money by gambling to get more. Anyway, nearly 5 years ago I was diagnosed with a cancer I almost died, my husband was there day and night, made sure every need was met, even if he had to do it personally. I discovered what a good spouse truly is, I know my son's father would have stayed for that. Long story short, presumed mistakes on surgeons part and radiation along with a billion types of xray, etc has made me lose 10% + of my left lung. right lung is dead so i live on 40% lung capacity, always on oxygen, get shakes etc. My son said that if i had read a pamphlet i would be divorced and not have had the same results. can someone help me understand. I know it is not truly true. i would be dead if hubby had not been there. i am positive my son would not take care of me. i really need help to formulate an answer. thank you very much.
 
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M

Moderator 3375

Guest
Pang as I can't contact you by Private Message until you have posted more, I'm letting you know that I edited the type of cancer as it could lead to you being identified by Scientologists who read here. If that is not a problem, I can restore it, let me know. I'm sure some members here can help you understand more about your son's reactions.
Moderator 3375
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
Scientologists believe in a version of Karma so if something happens to you, you 'pulled it in.' It is truly sickening how far they take this. If a child is raped, she is partly to blame because of past life actions.

Your son is trapped in this mindset. I am very sorry.

The best that you can do is to have the best possible relationship with him that you can. If he is that deep in, I think you would be unwise to try to change him. Your chances of losing him are very high. If you challenge his beliefs, he will very likely disconnect from you.

This is very upsetting to see, with you being a lovely person and in poor health and having to deal with this. I'm glad you get on well with his partner and your grandchild because they may need support and guidance. I am guessing they are a new couple and he has not attempted to indoctrinate her. I hope things go OK between them but her not being in Scientology is likely to be a problem in the future. Keep in contact with her.

Please don't give any more specific details that can be used to identify you. Unfortunately, the Scientology security people read this site and they always try to identify people.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
hi, I really hope you can help. My son is more or less a scientologist. he does not seem to be active but often sees things as attacks.

I have not seen him in over 7 years. I finally got to see him and meet my 8 month old grandbaby and the baby's mom. The baby and mom-not scientologist were great. Son was a beast. I think he was determinedly trying to alienate us. he has already alienated her parents.

Anyway one of the things at the beginning was that I am decrepit and pathetic. This is because i did not read a scientology booklet 12 years ago when circumstances and my husband lost me my house. My husband has since realized that you can not make up for lack of money by gambling to get more. Anyway, nearly 5 years ago I was diagnosed with a cancer I almost died, my husband was there day and night, made sure every need was met, even if he had to do it personally. I discovered what a good spouse truly is, I know my son's father would have stayed for that. Long story short, presumed mistakes on surgeons part and radiation along with a billion types of xray, etc has made me lose 10% + of my left lung. right lung is dead so i live on 40% lung capacity, always on oxygen, get shakes etc. My son said that if i had read a pamphlet i would be divorced and not have had the same results. can someone help me understand. I know it is not truly true. i would be dead if hubby had not been there. i am positive my son would not take care of me. i really need help to formulate an answer. thank you very much.

Hi pang.

It seems that as I write, no one (apart from the mod) has responded to your post in 3½ hours. I'm surprised at that because the folks here are generally forthcoming when asked for their help.

I don't know what to say except to reinforce your belief that reading some idiotic scientology pamphlet would not have made any difference to your circumstances. Scientology is a cruel and evil cult that promises the earth and delivers heartbreak and misery to those that get involved in it, so I am sorry to hear that your son has been caught in its web.

Unfortunately, attempts to illustrate scientology's shortcomings to an adherent only serves to strengthen their belief that you are a bad person, so he will have to find out for himself that he has been brainwashed.
 
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dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
hi, I really hope you can help. My son is more or less a scientologist. he does not seem to be active but often sees things as attacks.

I have not seen him in over 7 years. I finally got to see him and meet my 8 month old grandbaby and the baby's mom. The baby and mom-not scientologist were great. Son was a beast. I think he was determinedly trying to alienate us. he has already alienated her parents.

Anyway one of the things at the beginning was that I am decrepit and pathetic. SNIPPED for focus.. This is because i did not read a scientology booklet 12 years ago when circumstances and my husband lost me my house. My son said that if i had read a pamphlet i would be divorced and not have had the same results. can someone help me understand. I know it is not truly true. i would be dead if hubby had not been there. i am positive my son would not take care of me. i really need help to formulate an answer. thank you very much.
.
Welcome Pang
Hard to give any advice without knowing a lot more, so this might be a bit off the mark.
I would suggest you read the pamphlet and ask your son to help you understand anything it that you find confusing. I would at the same time suggest that you NOT get into discussing the merits of anything you would disagree with, but just read that damned thing and ask for his opinions on the contents and how it would have or would still apply to your situation. Then just remain quiet and let him express himself, realizing that he is under a strong mind control influence, so you will get to see that influence in action.
Then switch subjects probably towards his partner and child and be careful you don't get drawn into more discussion about scientology, although you can listen if he brings it up, but don't argue with him. But you can thank him for trying to give you advice and for trying to help you. Let him know you love him. And that you hope you can enjoy some good times with him and his family.
If he is not very active in scientology then there is a very good chance that he will come across information online or other public media which may well have him realize what mind control he is under and then may remove himself from such mind control
The purpose of the above tactic would be to be able to maintain 'contact' with him and his new family.

I understand it can be very hard to see a child under 'undue influence' but try to bare with it and keep the contact or 'life line' with him for when he will break free. The odds are in your favour as probably 99% of scientologist drop the subject sooner or later and all probably most of those when the truth about what scientology really is seeps in.

All the best Pang

snipped

Your son is trapped in this mindset. I am very sorry.

The best that you can do is to have the best possible relationship with him that you can. If he is that deep in, I think you would be unwise to try to change him. Your chances of losing him are very high. If you challenge his beliefs, he will very likely disconnect from you.

This is very upsetting to see, with you being a lovely person and in poor health and having to deal with this. I'm glad you get on well with his partner and your grandchild because they may need support and guidance. I am guessing they are a new couple and he has not attempted to indoctrinate her. I hope things go OK between them but her not being in Scientology is likely to be a problem in the future. Keep in contact with her.

Please don't give any more specific details that can be used to identify you. Unfortunately, the Scientology security people read this site and they always try to identify people.

I would clarity that once they (scientology security known as part of their office of special affairs or their 'ethics officer") do identify a person who is in disagreement with a scientologist then they require the scientologist to 'handle' = stop disagreeing with the scientologist or or get into scientology themselves and if that is not successful then the scientologist is told his eternity is at risk so he/she should disconnect from that disagreeing person....which means you could lose all contact with your son and his partner and child......
 
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MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Hi pang and welcome to this Forum! :welcome2:

hi, I really hope you can help. My son is more or less a scientologist. he does not seem to be active but often sees things as attacks.

AFAIK and IMHO, there is no such a thing as "more or less a scientologist", they are a "you're either with us or against us" cult. Therfore, he of course sees every slightest hint of a critical word as an attack. But please, don't let that stop you. :prettyplease:

I have not seen him in over 7 years. I finally got to see him and meet my 8 month old grandbaby and the baby's mom. The baby and mom-not scientologist were great.

You got to see them? Congratulation! Other members of this foirum haven't seen their still-in family members for more than 30 years.

Son was a beast. I think he was determinedly trying to alienate us. he has already alienated her parents.

Anyway one of the things at the beginning was that I am decrepit and pathetic.

Lol, please don't let that impress you. The game behind that is actually pretty simple: "I need to put you down to make myself look right."

This is because i did not read a scientology booklet 12 years ago when circumstances and my husband lost me my house. My husband has since realized that you can not make up for lack of money by gambling to get more. Anyway, nearly 5 years ago I was diagnosed with a cancer I almost died, my husband was there day and night, made sure every need was met, even if he had to do it personally. I discovered what a good spouse truly is, I know my son's father would have stayed for that. Long story short, presumed mistakes on surgeons part and radiation along with a billion types of xray, etc has made me lose 10% + of my left lung. right lung is dead so i live on 40% lung capacity, always on oxygen, get shakes etc. My son said that if i had read a pamphlet i would be divorced and not have had the same results. can someone help me understand. I know it is not truly true. i would be dead if hubby had not been there. i am positive my son would not take care of me. i really need help to formulate an answer. thank you very much.

Well, I myself survived a severe heart failure, 2 pneumonia, and a multiple organ failure (kidneys, liver etc) just earlier this year, so let me say that I'm glad we're both still alive and that there are people to take care of us when we need them.

I'm a Never-In with no direct connection to any Still-Ins, so I'll leave it to the more experienced forum members here to help you to find the answer(s) you're looking for. :thumbsup:
 

arcxcauseblows

Patron Meritorious
How far up the bridge has your son progressed?

Unless he is very rich with lots of free time he will spin his wheels forever believing there is something miraculous in Scientology

Only if he is very wealthy and has free time will he be able to get up their bridge only to find there are no miracles and that he got scammed, we are talking $300k and many years before he gets to that point

It sounds like he is brainwashed and it would be very hard for you alone to try to reverse what they have installed in his head so you could pretend to be interested and enthusiastically praise him that is the only thing that will put him in favor with you

Other route is get him to go online and see the truth but that's very difficult

Right now he believes stupid things that lrh taught such as smoking more cigarettes prevents cancer or past life trauma causes cancer and only Scientology can cure it

He's also been taught anyone that criticises Scientology can make him very ill so he won't listen to anything about it most likely


He was taught everyone not in Scientology is stupid and brainwashed and worthless

Rough situation

You might be better off without him annoying you with his cult life all he will care about is Scientology until he wakes up, he believes he is immortal and they are going to make him immortal and powerful and you have nothing to offer compared to that

They're rude to the extreme.... Just Google l Ron Hubbard Scientology is basically his thoughts he destroyed his own family and became extremely greedy and sick and Scientology turns people into his rude narcissistic personality
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
My son said that if i had read a pamphlet i would be divorced and not have had the same results. can someone help me understand. I know it is not truly true. i would be dead if hubby had not been there. i am positive my son would not take care of me. i really need help to formulate an answer. thank you very much.

One deeply-ingrained Scientology belief is that people who are chronically sick are to be avoided like the plague if at all possible. "Scientology makes the able more able", and they just hope the less-than-fully-able would have the decency to go off out of sight and die somewhere. I subscribed to this belief for maybe 30 years.

I realize this doesn't indicate a good course of action for you to take, but I hope it helps explain your son's apparently-illogical attitude.

Good luck to you.

Paul
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
hi, I really hope you can help. My son is more or less a scientologist. he does not seem to be active but often sees things as attacks.

I have not seen him in over 7 years. I finally got to see him and meet my 8 month old grandbaby and the baby's mom. The baby and mom-not scientologist were great. Son was a beast. I think he was determinedly trying to alienate us. he has already alienated her parents.

My only suggestion to you is to just endure. If (as you say) the baby's mom is not a Scientologist, then that's a very positive sign. Be friendly with the mom, bond with your grandson, and do not initiate conversations about Scientology.

If your son has alienated her parents, then it may be only a matter of time before baby-mom decides she has had enough. At that point, if you have built up a friendly relationship with her, then you will be able to continue to see your grandchild.

There is very little you can do to get your son to wake up and leave Scientology. Lord knows my long-suffering mom had a long and futile time with trying to get me out of Scientology. It's something he has to do for himself.

He may very well be trying to alienate you from baby-mom. For as long as he controls your access to your grandchild, he has leverage over you. If baby-mom is on good terms with you, and would thus allow you to see your grandchild even if your son was opposed, then YOU have leverage over HIM. The Scientologists from the Org who are likely coaching him on how to "handle" you are aware of this, and are trying to prevent you gaining in "relationship power".
 

Hypatia

Pagan
hi, I really hope you can help. My son is more or less a scientologist. he does not seem to be active but often sees things as attacks.

I have not seen him in over 7 years. I finally got to see him and meet my 8 month old grandbaby and the baby's mom. The baby and mom-not scientologist were great. Son was a beast. I think he was determinedly trying to alienate us. he has already alienated her parents.

Anyway one of the things at the beginning was that I am decrepit and pathetic. This is because i did not read a scientology booklet 12 years ago when circumstances and my husband lost me my house. My husband has since realized that you can not make up for lack of money by gambling to get more. Anyway, nearly 5 years ago I was diagnosed with a cancer I almost died, my husband was there day and night, made sure every need was met, even if he had to do it personally. I discovered what a good spouse truly is, I know my son's father would have stayed for that. Long story short, presumed mistakes on surgeons part and radiation along with a billion types of xray, etc has made me lose 10% + of my left lung. right lung is dead so i live on 40% lung capacity, always on oxygen, get shakes etc. My son said that if i had read a pamphlet i would be divorced and not have had the same results. can someone help me understand. I know it is not truly true. i would be dead if hubby had not been there. i am positive my son would not take care of me. i really need help to formulate an answer. thank you very much.

Scios are, unfortunately, all too quick to play the blame game.

I'd consider reminding him of your love for him, that you're happy he's found his own path (the purpose of this is to forestall accusations that you're trying to "stop" him) and that you're doing what YOU need to do and that your choices aren't up for discussion. You're the parent, he's the kid.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm so sorry for having to introduce you to this material but I believe it best explains your situation. This following link includes a list of doctrine governing the relationship between Scientologists and people who are deemed hostile to Scientology. Over time the interpretation of these policies has become more fanatical. In earlier days a Scientologist who had a parent who was hostile to Scientology included a policy option of "Handling" as opposed to just "Disconnecting". It seems "Hostile" has become reduced to simply "Unsympathetic" and Disconnection has become the default option. If he can view your relationship as being in a manageable "Handling" mode then he can represent this to the Ethics Officer and they may let him continue with courses and auditing. Not that you want him to continue with courses and auditing but you don't want to trigger disconnection and he may be resentful if you are perceived as a cause for his not being in good standing. His real world obligations of maintaining a family and household are a greater competition to Scientology and over time will force him to either get a divorce or drift away from Scientology. I don't know his nature but Scientology is in decline and it has devolved into a real high pressure dog-eat-dog affair so my money would be on his drifting away from it.

Some of this doctrine may sound sensible on some level but it is not. It was conceived as part of an integral program to isolate Scientologists from opposing ideas that might cause them to think for themselves and revert to their own moral compass. It is very much like a North Korean knock off where people are taught to be nationalistic and paranoid of outside enemies and they compete for status within that system as a way of life.

http://www.suppressiveperson.org/sp/scripture
 
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MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Scios are, unfortunately, all too quick to play the blame game.
True.

I'd consider reminding him of your love for him, that you're happy he's found his own path (the purpose of this is to forestall accusations that you're trying to "stop" him) and that you're doing what YOU need to do and that your choices aren't up for discussion.

Hmm...
If someone comes up with some valid and sane arguments against one of my decisions, I'd certainly like to hear about them, but when someone came up with a "can we ever be friends" argumentation or with a TWTH booklet or any other hubbardian bullshit, I'd laugh him/her out of the room, even if it were my own child.

You're the parent, he's the kid.

That is an argumentation, that almost never works. My parents obviously knew that, because they've never ever tried that one with me.

"We disagree with your decision because of <insert list of valid reasons>, but in the end, it's your life and you'll have to deal with whatever the outcome of your decision will be."
 

cleared cannibal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Unless you have been anti Scn to him he is not even following church doctrine. He will never be able to disseminate to any one with this approach. Berating some one for something they didn't do 12 years ago is not going to win many converts.

You didn't say if you are religious or a member of another church. If so indicating you are comfortable in your present faith stops a lot, not all but a lot. With the present day PR of the church what it is the last thing they want to do is to start fighting with another religion.

The best approach to those in Scn is to lead a happy and successful life out to show them it it can be done. If they reach out out with doubt or for help possibly your ideas might be considered.
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Pang,
Cherish the time you have with your grandchild.
Do not ever discuss Scientology with your son.
Tell him how happy you are to be together, and how much you love your grandchild.
But if your son is cruel to you, let him know that you feel hurt; be honest - speak from a place of love.

All the best.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Pang,
Cherish the time you have with your grandchild.
Do not ever discuss Scientology with your son.
Tell him how happy you are to be together, and how much you love your grandchild.
But if your son is cruel to you, let him know that you feel hurt; be honest - speak from a place of love.

All the best.


Use their own Doctrine: "Good Roads, Fair Weather".
I wish that I had applied that Policy some 32 years ago, before my Daughter disconnected from me.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Use their own Doctrine: "Good Roads, Fair Weather".
I wish that I had applied that Policy some 32 years ago, before my Daughter disconnected from me.

If I were a cynic, I might believe that the 'Good Roads, Fair Weather' policy was constructed to disguise that fact that you were living on a diet of rice and beans and spent your days scrubbing the toilet floor with a toothbrush.
 

pang

New Member
Re: scientology question -thank you

I wish to thank everyone who responded to my question. Believe me we learned years ago to say nothing about scientology. this just came out of left field. to the person who has been so ill recently, i hope you manage to recover to normalcy. At least now i understand more about why he said it. totally idiotic of course, i guess i would have been on an ice flow if not for hubby! lol

Unfortunately I have been told i am not allowed to speak to baby's mom. but i will keep lines of communication open. I also understand the bit about the money. this is what first attracted him, the money. now that he owns his own business i thought he had dropped them, but as i said every so often it raises its head. this weekend was a total wreck though. each horrible thing he said, he like smiled it was like beating up the dragon in a game of something. he had this victory smile even. i just kept explaining what he was ignoring and saying i loved him. did not help! but we will procede slowly and hopefully be there when pieces fall. once again, thank you all. have a great weekend!
 
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