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Scientology, Ron Hubbard and Hypnosis

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
I( don't know what "wienies" are but I recognize "weenie" when I see it.

Like when Scientology "ethics" declares it to be a crime "to heckle a Scientology lecturer"

Them wankers is a pack of weenies babylove...
Hubbard said:

""The necessity" – oh, of course, there’s these gimmicks, these wienies and so forth. But everybody just knows that they’re spurious as hell. Uh… „The necessity to have a new game coded before one ends the old game." Otherwise, everyone becomes a maker of games with no game. "

That is where the term weenies comes from.
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
@mockingbird

If I was your auditor and just talked to you about a life problem you have and
asked you to remember previous similar incidents in your past
would this be a hypnotic induction technique?

I don't think so.

If I talk to friends/relatives on facebook about remembering our childhood years
are they going into a hypnotic state during the discussion?

Just asking.

(BTW, I am not defending Scientology.)

Also, If you like this music is it because of hypnotic effect (music pattern repetition)?

Also, when I produced computer software using repetition in object oriented design was I in hypnotic influence in doing it?
Your questions seem to show that you are curious about what is and what isn't hypnosis.

If you want to know there are many great books and videos you can check out.

I liked the book Trances People Live.
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Remember how honest Hubbard was.

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."
. Ron Hubbard, "Off the Time Track," lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY


issue 18-G, reprinted in TECHNICAL VOLUMES OF DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY, vol. 1, p. 418
“Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively. … The student should be coached on a gradient until he/she can lie facilely.”
Ron Hubbard, Intelligence Specialist Training Routine—Lying (TR-L)


“Handling truth is a touchy business also. You don’t have to tell everything you know — that would jam the comm line too. Tell an acceptable truth. … So PR becomes the technique of communicating an acceptable truth — and which will attain the desirable result.”
Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 13 August 1970 Issue II PR Series 2, in the Volunteer Minister’s Handbook


“Purpose: To train a PRO to give a ‘no answer’ to questions he has no wish to answer directly. …The trick is to appear to answer the question by giving generalized statements in simple terms so that the reporter doesn’t realize his question hasn’t been answered. … “Purpose: To train a PRO to be able to establish Ethics presence over an SP reporter if the occasion arises, by such things as shouting, banging, pointing, swearing. To do this completely causatively until the poor reporter is ‘caved in’. … “Purpose: To train the PRO to handle an SP reporter by word alone without the use of force as in (a). He uses the word as a rapier and plunges it at the reporter, so that the reporter introverts and drops the question.”
Ron Hubbard, HCOB 10 December 1969,Training Routines”

“Now you say you have to be absolutely truthful. Sincerity is the main thing, and truthfulness is the main thing and don’t lie to anybody …and you’ll get ahead. Brother you sure will. You’ll get ahead right on that cycle of action, right toward zero! It’s a trap not being able to prevaricate … This makes life more colorful!”
Ron Hubbard, Philadelphia Doctorate Course, lecture “How to Talk to friends about Scientology.”
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hubbard required "obedience to rules, unconsciousness of rules to add reality“ – we pretend the rules are real."


He demanded extreme obedience. He used contradictions and deep layers of complex and compartmentalized doctrine for different caste levels so no one but he knew the rules. They were unknowable to everyone else.

By having the rules be unknown they couldn't be analyzed and rejected.

It's like how in 1984 ALL laws have been cancelled. This makes it so the government CAN'T break the law as there is no law to break. The government can legally do ANYTHING to ANYONE. So too do Hubbard's hidden rules let him do anything to anyone.

Agreement to rules and penalties is something Margaret Singer noted in her six conditions for a thought reform program. Cults use a system of rewards and penalties. Hubbard certainly learned this from his participation in and study of occult practices.

"Scientology is the only game in the universe where everybody wins.
We respect the other fellow whatever his status and give him his right to win the biggest prize of all, himself or herself. That prize is won by dedicated, exact application of Scientology and full support of our mission in our organization and the public.
Organized, we can each one win the biggest prize that can be offered - a full recovery of self.
There is no greater game in the universe than Scientology, for it is the only game in which everybody wins. And that places it far above all other games and makes it the game of games where everybody gets the ultimate prize of self . . ."
(HCO PL 18 April 1965 Issue I CONTESTS AND PRIZES)

The weinie is everything statement is similar to the eventual blind obedience to Scientology. It goes from a tool to a way of life. It goes from optional servant to inescapable master. You just do things FOR Scientology.

Hubbard sought to escape work with his game. He wanted to have the pirates and bums attitude that life should just give him what he desired.

Like in his reference to pirates and bums in the first lecture in the PDC series.
If people believe in magic they can believe in a source of magic and Hubbard was only too happy to lie to claim both. He wanted it to seem detrimental to not have magical thinking and beneficial and logical to have magical thinking.

"Well, he was able to take a very grand view of all this at first. Then later on when it became serious to him . . . And you know—you know, the way to get ahead in the world is “Work hard” and “Save your money,” and be respectful, respectful and polite, and willing, and very agreeable to your superiors. This is the old formula, and yet it’s dismaying to go around and find the (quote) “captains of industry” and find out that they’re a whole bunch of pirates and bums. They were never respectful to anybody. It’s just incredible! Yet there they sit in command of large works and industries. And these fellows, they didn’t save their money. They don’t save their money. They are not cautious with their investments. They buy the doggonest things. They get into the worst possible scrapes and trouble, and seem to keep right on going and getting right out of them again." Ron Hubbard

He suggested the magical thinker wins and the other kind loses in life as a rule.

"And you sit around and say, “Well, that fellow’s going to come to grief sooner or later.” And after you’ve said that for about forty years, why, you get a little apathetic about it but you just know that right will triumph in the end. Of course the end of that track is MEST. Well, the fellow who hopes this, by the way, is already pretty well on that track and he’ll be MEST before the other fellow will, because the other fellow can still bend the MEST universe around and he doesn’t have to agree with it too much."
Ron Hubbard


Hubbard intentionally made complexity to control people. He made the tone scale to map how he alone would persuade people with a series of lies about emotions. It's entirely a fabrication from other plagiarized ideas.

He said the game you are playing now is called freedom. It's an Orwellian reversal. It's slavery.
"And Games contain trickery and misdirection to win“ – your 180 degree vector of Have and Agree. "

Hubbard admitted his game contained trickery and misdirection to win. He used 180 degree reversals in his lies, projection and his Orwellian reversals. He called things their opposites. His bridge to total freedom was a route to slavery. He called his hypnotic illusions truth revealed. He called a method of adding guided imagination to create false memories a method to merely listen and guide.

He called adding a cult identity clearing. He called obliterating independent, critical, linear and rational thought through high authority indoctrination study technology. He called removing the morals of a person ethics technology. He said auditing un-hypnotizes people.

His prize of making a new game is the illusion of a future as a free immortal spiritual being he claims Scientology prepares one to participate in. It's a very generous empty promise of a counterfeit dream.

"The necessity“ – oh, of course, there’s these gimmicks, these wienies and so forth. But everybody just knows that they’re spurious as hell. Uh… "The necessity to have a new game coded before one ends the old game." Otherwise, everyone becomes a maker of games with no game. "

He had several references on necessity levels. He had hundreds on the deadly serious nature of Scientology. When he spoke of having the new game coded it's a sneaky method of persuasion. People think they are temporarily giving up freedom but it becomes permanent. A world without criminals, war or insanity is a very difficult goal.

"The necessity – "oh, of course, there’s these gimmicks, these wienies and so forth. But everybody just knows that they’re spurious as hell. Uh… "The necessity to have a new game coded before one ends the old game." Otherwise, everyone becomes a maker of games with no game. "

"Now, "The value of pieces. Ownership of pieces may be also the ownership of players. And the difference between players and pieces, and the difficulty of pieces becoming players"
boy, when a piece becomes a player, there’s really a hell of an upset in the game; it’ll just blow. Oh, the quarterback walks out of the football game and all of a sudden starts to run the whole football game, and nobody can tell him "No." That football game’s dead.
Now… so you’ve got to hide the rules from the pieces, otherwise this is going to happen. "


This quote really sums up why he hid EVERYTHING he really wanted. With his affirmations it becomes clear. Scientology was meant to make slaves for Hubbard that didn't suspect it for a second.

Next is the plan to have Hubbard be the games maker and his highest assistants like Nibs be players, until Nibs left him.

Hubbard went on:
"Now the caste system of game consist of this: The Maker of Games, he has no rules, he runs by no rules.
The player of the games, rules known but he obeys them. And the assistant players merely obey the players. And the pieces obey rules as dictated by players, but they don’t know the rules."

"And then, what do you know. There’s broken pieces, and they aren’t even in the game, but they’re still in the game. And they’re in a terrible maybe: "Am I in the game or am I not in the game?" Now, "How to make a piece. This is how to make a piece: First, deny there is a game. Second, hide the rules from them. Three, give them all penalties and no wins. Four, remove all goals“ –
all goals. "Enforce them… their playing. Inhibit their enjoying. Make them look like but forbid their being like players"
– look like God but uh… you can’t be God.
"To make a piece continue to be a piece, permit it to associate only with pieces and deny the existence of players."
Never let the pieces find out that there are players. Now out of these you’re going to get games.
Now here’s a process that has to do with the making of games, and all this process adds up to, is you just address to those factors which I just gave you, oh, run and change postulates and any creative process that you can think of and shift postulates around, you get a whole process.
But remember, that up at the top of it there is a big postulate, "There must be a game. " Ron Hubbard


Hubbard had a few trusted lieutenants but over time stopped trusting anyone. He became paranoid and the only player of games. High level Scientology Sea Org members were pieces. Hubbard lied to Mary Sue and his closest advisors over time.


Hubbard made pieces out of Scientology cult members by pretending there were no players. The players were people Hubbard stole ideas from. Hubbard pretended to be the only source of Dianetics and Scientology. It's always been a lie. Hubbard would excommunicate people who exposed him as having other people contribute to Scientology. He consistently used ideas from others but clamped down hard on it by the advent of KSW.


He used harsh ethics and the RPF to make broken pieces out of Sea Org members.


He went on:
"Now here’s a process that has to do with the making of games, and all this process adds up to, is you just address to those factors which I just gave you, oh, run and change postulates and any creative process that you can think of and shift postulates around, you get a whole process."
Ron Hubbard

His process had many forms but added up to addressing the factors he laid out and run meaning use guided imagination aka hypnosis to change the decisions people make, the decisions they recalled making and the decisions they will make.

Hubbard greatly expanded this over time to include any creative processes he can think of. That included the metered auditing taken from Volney Mathison's guided imagery therapy, the objectives taken from hypnosis and occult practices, the study tech taken from a combination of hypnosis, loaded language and psychology and even administrative technology and ethics technology too.

Hubbard continued:
"But remember, that up at the top of it there is a big postulate, "There must be a game."
"Therefore if you want to regain the Spirit of Play, people have got to unmake postulates they’ve made all along, saying, "There mustn’t be a game. There mustn’t be a game. It can’t be a game. Don’t play with me. I mustn’t be played with. Life is serious. This isn’t a game. We’re playing for keeps. I’ll never get out of this,"
and so forth. In other words, the postulates which they’ve made to convince themselves that these are the rules and the only rules that can be played, and these that I’ve just read off to you. Ron Hubbard


He told people they needed to regain the spirit of play. He put games at 22.0 on his tone scale so people thought they needed a spirit of play.

He of course said it's a deadly serious activity and not some minor game we are playing in Scientology. He said we play for keeps.

"Here's the heart of it In other words, the postulates which they’ve made to convince themselves that these are the rules and the only rules that can be played, and these that I’ve just read off to you."Ron Hubbard


He wanted to change your decisions so you would see his rules as the only rules that can be played. In other words his reality is the only truth and if it includes obedience to him, well that's now your belief too. Hubbard wins the minds of men. That's the game.
Remember how Hubbard treated life as a game ? I have told several people that life is a game when I was in Scientology only for them to object.

Now I know why. Look at what kind of person treats life as a game.


“And so without our primordial attachments to others, what would we be?
Evidently, we would be the players of a game, one that resembled a giant chess match, with our fellow human beings as the rooks, the knights, and the pawns. For this is the essence of sociopathic behavior, and desire.”
― Martha Stout, The Sociopath Next Door

“If all you had ever felt toward another person were the cold wish to “win,” how would you understand the meaning of love, of friendship, of caring? You would not understand. You would simply go on dominating, and denying, and feeling superior. Perhaps you would experience a little emptiness sometimes, a remote sense of dissatisfaction, but that is all.”
― Martha Stout, The Sociopath Next Door

“Controlling others—winning—is more compelling than anything (or anyone) else.”
― Martha Stout, The Sociopath Next Door

Here is Ron Hubbard the games maker. Scientology is his attempt to make his affirmations reality.
 

Gib

Crusader
mockingbird, you are only exposing one of the rhetoric of Hubbard, meaning his technology of supposedly going clear and then OT,

one also needs to expose the the other side, his rhetoric in policy letters, marketing series, PR series, HCO PL's, org board, and even soft books such as Problems of Work, A New Slant on Life, etc.

to fully understand the rhetoric of it all.

We have to take into consideration that many, many people involved in scientology never were auditors but only had read his PL's, books, etc and nothing to do with the finer arts of so called auditing to free people from engrams, secondaries, or locks, which is complete bullocks as you know and others.

But Hubbard persuaded us in all accounts of logos, pathos and ethos.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
mockingbird, you are only exposing one of the rhetoric of Hubbard, meaning his technology of supposedly going clear and then OT,

one also needs to expose the the other side, his rhetoric in policy letters, marketing series, PR series, HCO PL's, org board, and even soft books such as Problems of Work, A New Slant on Life, etc.

to fully understand the rhetoric of it all.

We have to take into consideration that many, many people involved in scientology never were auditors but only had read his PL's, books, etc and nothing to do with the finer arts of so called auditing to free people from engrams, secondaries, or locks, which is complete bullocks as you know and others.

But Hubbard persuaded us in all accounts of logos, pathos and ethos.

https://mncriticalthinking.com/can-anyone-be-conned/
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
And why should anyone owe you proof?
:duh: You really, really don't understand the concept and, I suspect, you never will. No one "owes" me any proof.

There are no Clears. There are no OTs. Never happened via Scientology. Never. Hubbard lied. If you demand agreement otherwise, then YOU would be required to provide proof.

If you understand scientific principles, then you would agree: There are no Clears; there are no OTs. The only proof required is when someone claims otherwise.
 

Me and My Self

Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
@Gib

Rhetoric should also be understood in the contexts of society, historical context, and childhood mental development during places and times.
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Thank you!

While looking for Stephen H. Wolinsky "Trances People Live: Healing Approaches in Quantum Psychology®"
I found another of his books: "The Beginner's Guide to Quantum Psychology" (seemed logic for me to start from the beginning for a better understanding of the former ... ).

He has many other writings on his site: A Mirage Library (link to his bio).

( @lotus you might like these ... )
Very much interesting
This Quantum psychology really uses zen\buddhism concept..

I stated multiple times that $cientology has nothing in common with Buddhism since they teach opposite view, concepts, practices...and often mentioned the self and ego as examples.
If one would like to have an idea of a practice approaching or been inspired by buddhism, this one is and obviously it has nothing similar to Scientogy.

Thanks for the link!​
 
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mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you!

While looking for Stephen H. Wolinsky "Trances People Live: Healing Approaches in Quantum Psychology®"
I found another of his books: "The Beginner's Guide to Quantum Psychology" (seemed logic for me to start from the beginning for a better understanding of the former ... ).

He has many other writings on his site: A Mirage Library (link to his bio).

( @lotus you might like these ... )
I do not recommend the Quantum Psychology as a therapy personally because of transference issues involving hypnosis. I think the description of hypnosis in Trances People Live is worthwhile however.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
:duh: You really, really don't understand the concept and, I suspect, you never will. No one "owes" me any proof.

There are no Clears. There are no OTs. Never happened via Scientology. Never. Hubbard lied. If you demand agreement otherwise, then YOU would be required to provide proof.

If you understand scientific principles, then you would agree: There are no Clears; there are no OTs. The only proof required is when someone claims otherwise.
Should I also, in accepting scientific principles renounce my acceptance of The Nazarene as The Christ?
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
How about if we called it "blatant use of covert hypnosis"?

Well HARUMPH!!!

How dare you call something so noble as the covert use of blatant hypnosis such a derogatory thing as "the blatant use of covert hypnosis"

I'm calling my broker Monday morning and divesting my portfolio of all stock in Dole!!!

And if my baker puts any pineapple in my upside down cake I'll take my business across the street!
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Should I also, in accepting scientific principles renounce my acceptance of The Nazarene as The Christ?
Why?

You don't understand scientific principles so why would you base anything on something you don't understand?
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Why?

You don't understand scientific principles so why would you base anything on something you don't understand?

I am a scientist in my own right Bill. I began an interest in science at the age of five when I decided I would be an astronomer when I grew up. At the age of ten while my classmates fumbled with the addition of compound numbers I was breezing through my school lessons and studying Einsteins' Theory of Relativity and The Lorentz transformation formula at home.

At the age of twelve I accepted The Nazarene as saviour at a Jack Wyrtzen Revvial in Boston Garden and began an exceptionally intense study of scripture thus I am a fairly uncommon melange of faith and reason.

I believe one should neither attempt to reason faith nor place faith in reason.

Applying scientific method to the events surrounding my friend's death from cancer I came up with a theory for an avenue to a new way to detect cancer in it's early treatable stage which was subsequently verified by researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital in 2010.

What prompts you to say I do not understand scientific principles Bill?
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
I do not recommend the Quantum Psychology as a therapy personally because of transference issues involving hypnosis. I think the description of hypnosis in Trances People Live is worthwhile however.
With all due respect mockingbird,

People don't need we recommend the one or other therapies, since you and I are not psychologists authority. We certainly can recommend readings , provides our opinions, insight, but this is it.

They can seek expert advices with specialists in these matters if needed.

Medical hypnosis is a field of practice I have known all my life ( won't provide infos here for anonymity purpose) and I never comment on this as an authoritative figure which I am not. Although, I still question myself on the subject in general.

Iuses self hypnosis( medical uses) to allow me to cope with a severe PTSD till I can access a specific somatic therapy. It has some good and some bad and it depends of the condition we are trying to address and what we expect. Same for pure meditation as it induces a sort of deep trance for us to see and observe phenomanons from a different pov.

One should be informed and consult experts for any sort of therapies instead of taking people's advice on message boards.
 
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Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am a scientist in my own right Bill. I began an interest in science at the age of five when I decided I would be an astronomer when I grew up. At the age of ten while my classmates fumbled with the addition of compound numbers I was breezing through my school lessons and studying Einsteins' Theory of Relativity and The Lorentz transformation formula at home.

At the age of twelve I accepted The Nazarene as saviour at a Jack Wyrtzen Revvial in Boston Garden and began an exceptionally intense study of scripture thus I am a fairly uncommon melange of faith and reason.

I believe one should neither attempt to reason faith nor place faith in reason.

Applying scientific method to the events surrounding my friend's death from cancer I came up with a theory for an avenue to a new way to detect cancer in it's early treatable stage which was subsequently verified by researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital in 2010.

What prompts you to say I do not understand scientific principles Bill?
Then you know what the "Null Hypothesis" is, right? For example, the null hypothesis for Hubbard's "tech" would be: "Hubbard's 'tech' does not produce 'Clears' and does not produce 'OTs'."

A null hypothesis doesn't need proving, that's the default. You have, at various times, demanded people "prove" the null hypothesis of Hubbard's "tech" which makes me seriously doubt you know scientific principles.
 
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Me and My Self

Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn
I do not recommend the Quantum Psychology as a therapy personally because of transference issues involving hypnosis. I think the description of hypnosis in Trances People Live is worthwhile however.

As far as the book I mentioned, I am more interested in the philosophy on which the author's works are based upon.

Self-realization and awareness can be the result of the eventual therapy, but I don't see how there can be transference or hypnosis if the goal is to know oneself, thus awakening.

"THE CONTEXT OF QUANTUM PSYCHOLOGY
In India, there are two major approaches to self-realization, Advaita and Vedanta. Advaita, or non-dual awareness, means that there’s only one substance, not two or more substances, in other words, non-duality. The most workable definition of Vedanta can best be expressed as, realizing who you are through discarding all you think or imagine yourself to be. In short, not this/not this or neti-neti in Sanskrit. The Vedas are considered the most sacred texts of India. Vedanta means the end of the Vedas.
THE PURPOSE OF QUANTUM PSYCHOLOGY
Quantum Psychology is different from other forms of modern- day psychology because it has a different purpose and a different aim, that of discovering WHO YOU ARE. The preliminary and preparatory stages are developed by dismantling (neti-neti) what is called your False Core-False Self and acquiring multi-dimensional awareness. [bcolor=rgb(255, 255, 255)]" [/bcolor]
 
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