Scientology, Ron Hubbard and Hypnosis

[Clay Pigeon]

Next up is repetition , probably Hubbard's OTHER great love in both tech and his own mind : I will once again quote a plain old hypnotist : this time Adam Easton from the online article entitled - Using repetition in Hypnosis and Hypnotherapy : "If you look back through history, you will see that repetition has been associated with hypnosis. You are sure to have seen those swinging pendulums and rotating wheels that get used, not to mention the enjoyable repetitive quality of the ocean waves coming in to shore.I love to hear that sound, it is one of the reasons I love to live beside the sea.Some of the more classical hypnotists use expressions such as “you are going deeper, deeper and deeper into hypnosis” when taking people into hypnosis. This is repetitive, though can sometimes be a bit boring.

The good hypnotist can use words repetitively to induce a relaxed and focused hypnotic state, though ideally giving the same message in a variety of ways is the way to make this principle most effective.You see, when you use certain words in a repetitive fashion, they can have the same effects as that pendulum swinging in front of the eyes or the rotating wheel. The repetition tends to hypnotically focus the prospect on your communication. It holds their attention very effectively. " End quote


Okay , this is a very , very basic definition that I hope everyone can accept .
Hubbard used repetition SO much and SO often in Scientology some would say IT is the basis of the technology ! I will not go QUITE that far , but they are not all wrong either , he has you re-re-re-redo and study the same things OVER and over and over for decades thousands and thousands of times ! I consider a huge clue now to look at as - what he has you do over and over , what you are doing and the effects that it causes ! He does not WASTE his SLAVES time ! It is HIS and too valuable to spend doing ANYTHING that does not benefit him , EVER !

Yes, yes, yes...

Repetition can induce a trance...

The Comm Cyle is NOT repetive; the PC gives a fresh answer each time

 

[Clay Pigeon]

MB, you are making Hubbard sound like a genius rather than a lying, cheating conman.

LRH used many conman tricks but like it or not the sonofabitch is recognized as a genius by many of his most serious critics; e.g. Time Magazine

 

[Dotey OT]

Yes, yes, yes...

Repetition can induce a trance...

The Comm Cyle is NOT repetive; the PC gives a fresh answer each time

But the comm cycle IS repetitive in auditing, for both the pc AND the auditor. And it is that way in TRAINING and AUDITING. Doesn't matter about the words, but there is more that is wrong with auditing than the repetitive nature of it.

First, If you want to believe that TR3 is correct, you can get the effect of "A Blur with other questions." I have seen very few auditors with "TR'S worth a lick. Oh my god!

Have you seen people drilling TR's and passing out?

Have you seen auditors falling asleep while auditing?

With my eyes anyway, that's what I've seen. At some point you gotta wonder. I did back then.

 

[pineapple]

MB, you are making Hubbard sound like a genius rather than a lying, cheating conman.

I'd go with "evil genius." Beginning as a 2nd-rate pulp writer, he became a multi-millionaire with his own private navy and thousands of followers, some of whom would have died for him. He conducted Operation Snow White.

"This project included a series of infiltrations into and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members in more than 30 countries.[1] It was one of the largest infiltrations of the United States government in history,[2] with up to 5,000 covert agents.[3]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

He was a lying, cheating conman, but quite a brilliant one.

 

[JustSheila]

I'd go with "evil genius." Beginning as a 2nd-rate pulp writer, he became a multi-millionaire with his own private navy and thousands of followers, some of whom would have died for him. He conducted Operation Snow White.

"This project included a series of infiltrations into and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members in more than 30 countries.[1] It was one of the largest infiltrations of the United States government in history,[2] with up to 5,000 covert agents.[3]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

He was a lying, cheating conman, but quite a brilliant one.

I'll go with he knew how to con brilliant people to do what he wanted.

 

[mockingbird]

Yes, yes, yes...

Repetition can induce a trance...

The Comm Cyle is NOT repetive; the PC gives a fresh answer each time

Uh, you are not addressing every aspect of Dianetics and Scientology. some parts do use repetition.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

A favorite bumpersticker read:

Men are not pigs. Pigs are gentle, intelligent, sensitive creatures.

Yeah...

It's bait in a trap.

But it ain't much of a trap; you stand up, you start walking and in ten minutes you are somewhere else

As we all did n'est-ce pas?

I wish it had been that easy Birdie ... but it wasn't (actually in the end it was unbelievably easy, so you are right, but getting to that point took a long time).

I'd have had no idea what to do with you then either. Now I might try Book one Dianetics. Of course Objectives and 2wc

How about the SA lists? Did these run all right?

Did you do any Grades?

Not that it matters and you needn't answer...

I quite liked the SA lists and I didn't mind life repair either but that is where it stopped being interesting for me ... I did do the grades because I had no choice but I got through them fast (they were as boring as).

The bottom line is ... there was (ahem) ... nothing wrong in the first place. I didn't need or want his tek, but the trap had been set and I had wandered in so I had to go through all the usual things we all went through in order to get back out intact (ie in good standing) while trying to keep the losses to a minimum (my family) and that didn't work out very well as it happens.

The OT levels really annoyed me and that was the actual and immediate end of my involvement in the cofs (though it still took ages to free myself).

Ah well, live and learn eh?

 

[Gib]

Yeah well , he certainly tried to get us to worry about the past but he wasn't successful with all of us ... I couldn't/wouldn't/didn't run well on dianetics. I was very careful ... I knew I was supposed to play the game or risk ending up in ethics but I just couldn't/wouldn't and didn't pretend to run stuff that either wasn't there or didn't interest me.

They had no idea what to do with me.

I was incredibly lucky though because the 'natural clear' thing came out and I must have been the first in line to attest!



It was yet another load of old tosh but it meant I was left alone (auditing wise) until they shuffled me onto the oatee levels and I finally found out the truth (which is, as you are so fond of reminding us ... that it was all rhetoric).

well, sort of like that for me. I ran a few hundred dianetics hours but never experienced an engram. I tried, I tried to see a full mental image picture, but never happened. I did cry during some sessions in recalling things, but I do this all the time if one were to ask me about a dog friend who died or even if a friend said his/her dog died, or even watching a emotional movie. You know what I mean.

 

[Gib]

Well, I was seeing something that wasn't actually happening, or at least no one saw it but me. And it was superimposed on things that were actually happening -- things that other people could see. Presumably this was some sort of projection of my own subconscious.

If you're seeing something that no one else sees, and seeing that instead of what everyone else sees, are you in present time?

I'd say I was out of present time to the degree that I was not tracking with generally agreed-upon observable reality and looking at something from my subconscious instead.

I kind of don't think with the subconscious idea anymore.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

well, sort of like that for me. I ran a few hundred dianetics hours but never experienced an engram. I tried, I tried to see a full mental image picture, but never happened. I did cry during some sessions in recalling things, but I do this all the time if one were to ask me about a dog friend who died or even if a friend said his/her dog died, or even watching a emotional movie. You know what I mean.

I know exactly what you mean but you know, the fact that he even came out with 'natural clear' (and a few other similar versions of 'clear') suggests to me that you and I were not alone and lots of people must have been experiencing something similar ... there could have been loads of people like us who didn't really want to know about auditing and were just going through the motions ... because there was nothing wrong in the first place.

We couldn't discuss things with each other though ...

Allowing us to attest and then go straight to the oatee levels kind of says it all.

 

[Gib]

I know exactly what you mean but you know, the fact that he even came out with 'natural clear' (and a few other similar versions of 'clear') suggests to me that you and I were not alone and lots of people must have been experiencing something similar ... there must have been loads of people like us who didn't really want to know about auditing and were just going through the motions ... because there was nothing wrong in the first place.

Allowing us to attest and then go straight to the oatee levels kind of says it all.

well, I did want to know about auditing, I used to read the HCOBs on everything about clear, couldn't about OT cuz confidential and not available.

I even once read my latest PC folder, not all of it, just opened it up and took a look, didn't find anything, I was just curious if I'm sort of clear or not.

Got in a bit of trouble, but nothing bad.

It was the mystery of it all.

LOL

 

[I told you I was trouble]

well, I did want to know about auditing, I used to read the HCOBs on everything about clear, couldn't about OT cuz confidential and not available.

I even once read my latest PC folder, not all of it, just opened it up and took a look, didn't find anything, I was just curious if I'm sort of clear or not.

Got in a bit of trouble, but nothing bad.

It was the mystery of it all.

LOL

Yeah, I wanted to go 'clear and OT' too but the road to getting there was unnecessary and excruciating (as was clear and OT, we know that now).

It was a well baited trap to nowhere.

 

[Gib]

Yeah, I wanted to go 'clear and OT' too but the road to getting there was unnecessary and excruciating (as was clear and OT, we know that now).

It was a well baited trap to nowhere.

yah, it's like I keep saying sometimes well any two people are supposed to clear themselves using Dianetics book alone. What a load of crap. that was never true from the get go.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

yah, it's like I keep saying sometimes well any two people are supposed to clear themselves using Dianetics book alone. What a load of crap. that was never true from the get go.

True, because there is no such thing as clear/OT but an uncluttered mind is attainable, many people have one of those (people who have never even heard of scientology or dianetics).

I think the most valuable part of scientology was the Self Analysis lists ... they were cool. I believe they picked up any bits of upset or trauma for many people and cleaned it up but ... they were part of the original bait so even they had hidden hooks attached.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

But the comm cycle IS repetitive in auditing, for both the pc AND the auditor. And it is that way in TRAINING and AUDITING. Doesn't matter about the words, but there is more that is wrong with auditing than the repetitive nature of it.

First, If you want to believe that TR3 is correct, you can get the effect of "A Blur with other questions." I have seen very few auditors with "TR'S worth a lick. Oh my god!

Have you seen people drilling TR's and passing out?

Have you seen auditors falling asleep while auditing?

With my eyes anyway, that's what I've seen. At some point you gotta wonder. I did back then.

I don't doubt your report for a second DOT

but...

to answer your questions...

no and no.

I trained in SF '71-'72 and was staff at FCDC '72-'74. SF is always a special place but more so then. FCDC set some great records in HGC and Academy when I was there and my wife and I had a sunny, spacious modern, two room apartment with kichenette and full bath on staff pay.

We did things well and to large extent right...

But things got noticeably screwed up with the introduction of two hour blinkless TR-0

 

[Gib]

True, because there is no such thing as clear/OT but an uncluttered mind is attainable, many people have one of those (people who have never even heard of scientology or dianetics).

I think the most valuable part of scientology was the Self Analysis lists ... they were cool. I believe they picked up any bits of upset or trauma for many people and cleaned it up but ... they were part of the original bait so even they had hidden hooks attached.

I did the SA lists with my sister, I wanted to help her. We ran the questions and we had fun, who wouldn't it's talking about past fun times with a few added things such as perception, time, etc, whatever the wheel said to perceive in our minds. We laughed a lot.

We do this all the time with meeting friends or new people when I think about it.

Here's the thing, I never told my sister about the purpose of doing this SA lists. We had fun doing them but she never reached to do more.

That's why I say if you haven't read about what it is all supposed to mean, the significance of it all, why that is Hubbard's rhetoric of persuasion, or even the word indoctrination. We fell for the significance of clear and OT. My sister did not because she never read the books or listened to the lectures by Hubbard.

Hubbard said books make booms, should be reading his books mean being indoctrinated or persuaded.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I'd go with "evil genius." Beginning as a 2nd-rate pulp writer, he became a multi-millionaire with his own private navy and thousands of followers, some of whom would have died for him. He conducted Operation Snow White.

"This project included a series of infiltrations into and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members in more than 30 countries.[1] It was one of the largest infiltrations of the United States government in history,[2] with up to 5,000 covert agents.[3]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

He was a lying, cheating conman, but quite a brilliant one.

It's not hard to think of him as an evil genius and I too can suspect him of it.

BUT!!!

I read "Mission Earth" very carefully...

No.

My fellow Granitestatesman, dear friend, a founding hippie, a Tibetan Red Hat Buddhist and Christian a mage, a student of many things including Alister Crowley, the late great River Raven may he rest in peace said he saw Elron as one of those mages who shifts back and frt between the Right Hand Path and the Left Hand Path...

Good call I'd say

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Uh, you are not addressing every aspect of Dianetics and Scientology. some parts do use repetition.

Yes I know and perhaps some of those ways can induce trance but "repetitive auditing" has the variable of th PC response.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I wish it had been that easy Birdie ... but it wasn't (actually in the end it was unbelievably easy, so you are right, but getting to that point took a long time).



I quite liked the SA lists and I didn't mind life repair either but that is where it stopped being interesting for me ... I did do the grades because I had no choice but I got through them fast (they were as boring as).

The bottom line is ... there was (ahem) ... nothing wrong in the first place. I didn't need or want his tek, but the trap had been set and I had wandered in so I had to go through all the usual things we all went through in order to get back out intact (ie in good standing) while trying to keep the losses to a minimum (my family) and that didn't work out very well as it happens.

The OT levels really annoyed me and that was the actual and immediate end of my involvement in the cofs (though it still took ages to free myself).

Ah well, live and learn eh?

So you did OT levels?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I know exactly what you mean but you know, the fact that he even came out with 'natural clear' (and a few other similar versions of 'clear') suggests to me that you and I were not alone and lots of people must have been experiencing something similar ... there could have been loads of people like us who didn't really want to know about auditing and were just going through the motions ... because there was nothing wrong in the first place.

We couldn't discuss things with each other though ...

Allowing us to attest and then go straight to the oatee levels kind of says it all.

Yeah...

"we couldn't discuss things..."

In SF we could and DID!

At FCDC on staff it was much more muzzled...