Oh sistahOnly to OT3 ... if you call sitting in a little room fuming for 6 weeks, clutching soupcans and pretending to tell BT's to get lost doing the OT levels.
Anyone who wants my complimentary tickets to the next "Xenu and the BT's" concert is welcome to them...Only to OT3 ... if you call sitting in a little room fuming for 6 weeks, clutching soupcans and pretending to tell non-existent BT's to get lost doing the OT levels.
It's a convenient term. I'm not married to it. There is clearly a part of the mind that functions without our conscious control. If you want to say it's just the brain, I can buy that.I kind of don't think with the subconscious idea anymore.
If you couldn't see pictures, how were you running dianetics? For me it was like seeing pictures before I fall asleep -- hypnagogic images -- except I didn't fall asleep, just went with the pictures.I ran a few hundred dianetics hours but never experienced an engram. I tried, I tried to see a full mental image picture, but never happened.
This has been studied by memory expert Elizabeth Loftus. She is considered one of the top experts in this field and often used an excerpt witness.Yes I know and perhaps some of those ways can induce trance but "repetitive auditing" has the variable of th PC response.
Repetition can induce a trance...
The Comm Cyle is NOT repetive; the PC gives a fresh answer each time
Excerpt from Subliminal in full
I wrote a series on the book Subliminal by Leonard Mlodinow.
Psychologists have found merely telling a person an event occurred can prompt the manufacturing of a memory to fit the suggestion. And then recall the memory but not the suggestion that prompted it.
This has been described as successful 15 to 50 percent of the time. A recent study was done on people that went to Disneyland. They were asked to think about a fake ad for the park with Bugs Bunny. It had suggestions regarding vivid imagery of Bugs and being with him using suggestive language like imagine, he got bigger the closer you got and so on.
About a quarter of the subjects recalled meeting Bugs and of those 62 percent remembered shaking his hand, 46 percent recalled hugging him.
Now Warner brothers owns Bugs Bunny and Disneyland owns Mickey Mouse and the two don't visit each other. But people can recall meeting Bugs Bunny when they never did - if provided the suggestion.
For Scientologists the hundreds of suggestions they're provided are certainly sometimes effective on some people at prompting false memories. In Scientology indoctrination and auditing hundreds of suggestions are given and repetitive questions certainly serve as suggestions in this context. And if those people stay in Scientology and agree that the suggestions are real as memories then to them it appears everyone has these memories, because the people that don't have these memories either leave or keep it to themselves.
Mlodinow wrote, "Conscious memory and perception accomplish their miracles with a heavy reliance on the unconscious."
Unfortunately, just as the unconscious is unseen by the conscious mind its errors and efforts to manipulate the unconscious to guide or fool the conscious mind are also unseen and when successful unnoticed.
That's the horrifying vulnerability that makes groups like Scientology capable of deceiving people with false memories and similar techniques.
Our ignorance about the vulnerability of our minds is the deadly glaring weakness that leaves us gullible about our gullibility. We are sure our memories are so reliable when Scientology manipulates them we mistakenly take that as proof and see the matter as settled. We couldn't be more wrong.
Grade auditing commands and queations do not fit into this "experts" categoriesThis has been studied by memory expert Elizabeth Loftus. She is considered one of the top experts in this field and often used an excerpt witness.
"A suggestive question is one that implies that a certain answer should be given in response, or falsely presents a presupposition in the question as accepted fact.Such a question distorts the memory thereby tricking the person into answering in a specific way that might or might not be true or consistent with their actual feelings, and can be deliberate or unintentional. For example, the phrasing "Don't you think this was wrong?" is more suggestive than "Do you think this was wrong?" despite the difference of only one word. The former may subtly pressure the respondent into responding "yes," whereas the latter is far more direct. Repeated questions can make people think their first answer is wrong and lead them to change their answer, or it can cause people to continuously answer until the interrogator gets the exact response that they desire. The diction used by the interviewer can also be an influencing factor to the response given by the interrogated individual.
Experimental research by psychologist Elizabeth Loftus has established that trying to answer such questions can create confabulation in eyewitnesses.For example, participants in an experiment may all view the same video clip of a car crash. Participants are assigned at random in one of two groups. The participants in the first group are asked "How fast was the car moving when it passed by the stop sign?" The participants in the other group are asked a similar question that does not refer to a stop sign. Later, the participants from the first group are more likely to remember seeing a stop sign in the video clip, even though there was in fact no such sign. Such findings have been replicated and raise serious questions about the validity of information elicited through poorly phrased questions during eyewitness testimony.
Direct questions lead to one word answers when explanations are sometimes needed. This could include questions like “Do you get it?” and “Where did it happen?” According to Dr. Kathy Kellermann, an expert in persuasion and communication, direct questions force exact responses through carefully worded questions.
Repeated questions elicit certain types of answers. Repeated questions make people think their first answer was wrong, lead them to change their answer, or cause people to keep answering until the interrogator gets the exact response that they desire. Elizabeth Loftus states that errors in answers are dramatically reduced if a question is only asked once
Forced choice questions
Yes/no or forced choice questions like “is this yellow or green?” force people to choose between two choices when the answer could be neither of the choices or needs more explanation. This generates more “interviewer-talks” moments, where the interviewer is talking and controlling most of the interview. This type of question is also known as a false dilemma.
Presumptuous questions can either be balanced or unbalanced. Unbalanced questions ask questions only from the point of view of one side of an argument. For example, an interrogator might ask “’Do you favor the death penalty for persons convicted of murder?”’ This question assumes that the person’s only point of view in the situation is that a person who is convicted must either get the death penalty or not. The second type of presumptuous question is balanced question. This is when the interrogator uses opposite questions to make the witness believe that the question is balanced when the reality is that it is not. For example, the interrogator would ask, “’Do you favor life in prison, without the possibility of parole?”’ This type of question may seem balanced when in reality it is still influencing the person to discuss life in prison and no other choice.
Confirmatory questioning leads to answers that can only support a certain point. Here, the interviewer forces the person to make sure his or her answers make them out to be extroverted or introverted. If they want them to look extroverted they would ask questions like “How do you make a party more fun?” and “When are you talkative?” If they want the person to look introverted they ask questions like “Have you ever been left out of a group?” or “Can you be more hyper sometimes?”.
Considerable attention has been devoted to suggestive questions and its effects. Experimental research by Elizabeth F. Loftus, an American psychologist and an expert on human memory, has established that trying to answer such questions can create confabulation in eyewitnesses. Loftus conducted and experiment where participants all viewed the same video clip of a car crash. Participants were then assigned at random in one of two groups. Group one was asked, "How fast was the car moving when it passed by the stop sign?" The participants in the other group are asked a similar question that does not refer to a stop sign. The results showed participants from the first group are more likely to remember seeing a stop sign in the video clip, even though there was in fact no such sign. Elizabeth Loftus stated that everyone is affected by suggestive questioning, and it comes from environmental factors instead of innate factors, meaning that everyone is affected by suggestive questioning.
Elizabeth Loftus and John Palmer developed the Misinformation Effect. It describes participants witnessing an accident whose responses changed if questions were worded differently. They found out that people tend to exaggerate what they really saw.Twenty five percent of the participants claimed they saw broken glass because the word “smashed” instead of “hit” was used.
Some therapists are at risk of using suggestive questions on clients while discussing the matter of past traumatic events. Sigmund Freud’s definition of repressed memory is the mind’s conscious and unconscious avoidance of unpleasant wishes, thoughts, and memories.However, there has been very little evidence of this type of memory. Some therapists claim that repression causes people to forget frightful events of sexual or physical abuse as a psychological defense Through improperly phrased interviewing questions, a therapist can convince their client to agree that there is such a thing as repressed memory, and therefore abuse had to have occurred, but the patient just does not remember it. Repetitive questions change clients’ answers from a reluctant perhaps to a definite for sure. The use of suggestive questioning by therapists changes perceptions and can cause entire memories to be created.
According to the psychologist Philip Zimbardo, Misinformed individuals can come to believe the misinformation in which they feel confidence. "
Above from Wikipedia
See, we keep coming up against the difference between an opinion and a claim with evidence of some kind to support it.How ? What EVIDENCE do you have that is better than the research these experts conducted ?
no, I see pictures, mental image pictures. I could see the pictures in my mind of locks and secondaries, but never an engram. I tried, never ran into an engram, even the birth one. But then again, I was never unconscious that I recall. Never had somebody beat me to a pulp to unconsciousness, no operations being put under, etc.If you couldn't see pictures, how were you running dianetics? For me it was like seeing pictures before I fall asleep -- hypnagogic images -- except I didn't fall asleep, just went with the pictures.
Did you run metered dianetics or only Book One? (There was no book one dianetics when I was in, only metered -- "Standard Dianetics" and then NED.)
Did you ever "go whole track"/run "past lives"?
I'm curious because when I was in I never thought about how I did this stuff. It interests me to hear how others did it, and that we weren't all doing the same thing.
of course you know Pineapple, we would never be allowed to have this conversation while in Scientology, it would a high crime to talk about case.no, I see pictures, mental image pictures. I could see the pictures in my mind of locks and secondaries, but never an engram. I tried, never ran into an engram, even the birth one. But then again, I was never unconscious that I recall. Never had somebody beat me to a pulp to unconsciousness, no operations being put under, etc.
I was run on book 1 dianetics, no meter.
Never went whole track or past lives, I tried, but no mental image picture came up. I thought at one time I was a black five case, LOL.
I can see mental image pictures now all the time, and can even mock them up as in imagination.
I kind of don't think with the subconscious idea anymore.
subliminal has nothing to do with sublime writing.The subconscious or unconscious is in my opinion a good hypothesis.
The best simple book on it in my opinion is Subliminal by Leonard Mlodinow. I also like the book The Brain by David Eagleman. David Eagleman has a lot of videos on the brain on YouTube. The standard for books on the subconscious and conscious mind is thought to be Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow by Nobel prize winner Daniel Kahneman. It is for a devoted student and superb.
Subliminal has to do with our minds and perception, memory, identity and so on. That is a fundamental that affects how we write and receive communication.