Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to do."

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
The Church of Scientology says the Suppressive Person Declare of 83 year-old grandmother and Disconnection from her children and grandchildren is “the most humane thing to do.”

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/mary-mccarran-kahn/#comment-39495
Doug Parent says
March 16, 2014 at 6:01 pm

If the church maintains a public position that the family is a vital building block in society perhaps the MAA/Ethics drones will reconsider giving out advice such as I received (Tampa Org MAA late October 2005) consoling me while I was torn apart over my mothers impending SP Declare, that the SP declare itself was “the most humane thing to do” for an 83 year old woman (who was about to lose contact with all her children and grandchildren…. FOREVER.) Apparently old ladies who are “SP’s” upon receiving their SP Declare in the mail are supposed to have some spiritual revelation and cognite that they are being suppressive, promptly get on with dropping the body and then come back next lifetime and get back in good standing. (An actual conversation) THESE PEOPLE ARE INSANE and a danger to themselves and others. Because they commit crimes against humanity I refer to them as criminals and those who support or hide them are called accomplices. No sugar coating it. People who don’t speak out , stand up, leave and call a spade a spade are enablers and accomplices. Knowing or unknowing.
 
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CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/mary-mccarran-kahn/#comment-39427
Doug Parent saysMarch 16, 2014 at 12:57 pm

Mary your story is touching effective and inspirational. Thank you for adding your voice and support. I believe that with each instance of willful intentional harmful assault upon the affinity and bond between children and their parents, that Miscaviges abomination of Scientology will slide ever closer towards a final internal collapse. At one time I acted as your son has, turning my back on my 83 year old mother. She contemplated suicide. I regained my senses and I trust your son will too. My family has a Scientology Survival Story. Until all other families recover from these morally and ethically bankrupt criminals, I pledge to continue to speak out where ever possible against them. As my own mother’s life draws ever closer to its end I am so grateful I mustered the courage to assess and act before it was too late. I have faith that your son will too.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

Disconnection is heart-wrenching and it SUCKS! This is ridiculous to do this to an elderly. C'mon now, Scn, show some compassion (oh yeah, you need a dictionary to know what that word means).


I just wanted to make a comment here about the subject of disconnection in general.

The whole point of disconnection was not particularly to punish families, that, to Scn, is an aside after-effect. The whole point of it is to deny the Suppressive Person the chance to avail themselves of the wonderful technology that Scn has to offer. That is what family members who are disconnecting think they are doing. They think it is for the good of the SP. They do not consider themselves to be "effect" of that terrible SP family member. They do it to encourage the person to get straight and get back into Scientology.

Makes no sense cause its ass backwards. But its true.
 

Boson Wog Stark

Patron Meritorious
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

Disconnection is heart-wrenching and it SUCKS! This is ridiculous to do this to an elderly. C'mon now, Scn, show some compassion (oh yeah, you need a dictionary to know what that word means).


I just wanted to make a comment here about the subject of disconnection in general.

The whole point of disconnection was not particularly to punish families, that, to Scn, is an aside after-effect. The whole point of it is to deny the Suppressive Person the chance to avail themselves of the wonderful technology that Scn has to offer. That is what family members who are disconnecting think they are doing. They think it is for the good of the SP. They do not consider themselves to be "effect" of that terrible SP family member. They do it to encourage the person to get straight and get back into Scientology.

Makes no sense cause its ass backwards. But its true.

I think that is a cover story, but I can't follow the logic of it either. Wouldn't denying the person of the tech be harmful to them and everyone around them? Or by disconnecting, is it supposed to encourage the person to attempt to get back in the good graces of the cult? (I guess that works sometimes, as it did with one of the three founding members of Ex-scientology kids.)

Whatever ecclesiastical cockamamie or convoluted reasoning that is pasted on it, the practical purpose of disconnection as it is used in the cult is to separate the person who is no longer contributing money and/or cheap labor to the cult from the ones who still are. They have to stop the cascade effect of families or friends leaving together.

So, while it may be painful to disconnect from a son or daughter, the cult wants you to believe it is something you have to do for your own eternity, and to clear this planet before it is too late.

It is also used as a means to silence dissent and prevent people from leaving. Buying into this level of brainwashing, members end up feeling guilty if they even THINK of leaving. This keeps them in longer even if they eventually end up leaving.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

I think that is a cover story, but I can't follow the logic of it either. Wouldn't denying the person of the tech be harmful to them and everyone around them? Or by disconnecting, is it supposed to encourage the person to attempt to get back in the good graces of the cult? (I guess that works sometimes, as it did with one of the three founding members of Ex-scientology kids.)

Whatever ecclesiastical cockamamie or convoluted reasoning that is pasted on it, the practical purpose of disconnection as it is used in the cult is to separate the person who is no longer contributing money and/or cheap labor to the cult from the ones who still are. They have to stop the cascade effect of families or friends leaving together.

Leaving cult friends don't seem to be that much of an issue usually, because often times these "friends" are filing reports on you anyway, or on your case because you're not working hard enough or not making them look good.

So, while it may be painful to disconnect from a son or daughter, the cult wants you to believe it is something you have to do for your own eternity, and to clear this planet before it is too late.

It is also used as a means to silence dissent and prevent people from leaving. Buying into this level of brainwashing, members end up feeling guilty if they even THINK of leaving. This keeps them in longer even if they eventually end up leaving.

I am just telling you that it was LRH's original point and idea about disconnection.

As a Case Supervisor for years, that was why and what it was about. The disconnection was from the technology that would save you from an eternity in the dwindling spiral.

It was not to punish family members, that was secondary (incidental).

It was to punish the SP by disconnecting from the TECH. That was LRH's original intent in the disconnection policy for declared SP's.

If you have a family member who is PTS, that person would try to handle, handle handle as they could. As long as the person they are trying to handle is not SP declared, there was no real reason to disconnect. Unless nothing else was working to get the PTS'es item (the named person, which I don't want to call SP because they have not been labeled as such by Scn goldenrod).

----------------------


I am trying to explain why.


Maybe there should be a separate thread on it. Or an article on why disconnection. Why does Scn do it?
 

Boson Wog Stark

Patron Meritorious
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

I am just telling you that it was LRH's original point and idea about disconnection.

As a Case Supervisor for years, that was why and what it was about. The disconnection was from the technology that would save you from an eternity in the dwindling spiral.

It was not to punish family members, that was secondary (incidental).

What are you talking about, LRH's "original intent"? He was such a complex nutter, no one can really figure out all the contradictions in his BS. Just saying, "disconnection from the technology would save you from an eternity in the dwindling spiral" sounds insane.

I mean the technology is supposed to save you from the dwindling spiral. Are you saying that once a person is disconnected, Hubbard relied on the hope that they would feel so lost and desperate without the tech, they would do anything to start buying into it again?

That being disconnected from their own family would have nothing to do with it? Come on, that's absurd!
 
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

just go in and get a sec check. Clean it all up. Then everything will be all right.

no matter how hard I try I just can't understand this stupidity
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

What are you talking about, LRH's "original intent"? He was such a complex nutter, no one can really figure out all the contradictions in his BS. Just saying, "disconnection from the technology would save you from an eternity in the dwindling spiral" sounds insane.

I mean the technology is supposed to save you from the dwindling spiral. Are you saying that once a person is disconnected, Hubbard relied on the hope that they would feel so lost and desperate without the tech, they would do anything to start buying into it again?

That being disconnected from their own family would have nothing to do with it? Come on, that's absurd!

I think it's just supposed to scare the living crap out of anyone thinking of crossing a boundary. I don't think he ever worked out the way it would work because he just thought people would be shocked into complying. He never really understood people.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

I think it's just supposed to scare the living crap out of anyone thinking of crossing a boundary. I don't think he ever worked out the way it would work because he just thought people would be shocked into complying. He never really understood people.

Exactly. And it explains why family so willingly disconnect. They are not doing it as a family member to punish the SP. Its a fine line.

I am trying to explain WHAT MAKES SCIENTOLOGISTS AND SEA ORG MEMBERS THINK THAT IT IS OK TO DISCONNECT.

I did not say it makes sense.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

What are you talking about, LRH's "original intent"? He was such a complex nutter, no one can really figure out all the contradictions in his BS. Just saying, "disconnection from the technology would save you from an eternity in the dwindling spiral" sounds insane.

I mean the technology is supposed to save you from the dwindling spiral. Are you saying that once a person is disconnected, Hubbard relied on the hope that they would feel so lost and desperate without the tech, they would do anything to start buying into it again?

That being disconnected from their own family would have nothing to do with it? Come on, that's absurd!

Scientology.

It's absurd. :biggrin:
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

Exactly. And it explains why family so willingly disconnect. They are not doing it as a family member to punish the SP. Its a fine line.

I am trying to explain WHAT MAKES SCIENTOLOGISTS AND SEA ORG MEMBERS THINK THAT IT IS OK TO DISCONNECT.

I did not say it makes sense.

Many of the disconnecting ones believe that it will force us to return to the fold and to the love of the family members still inside. It certainly won't work for me, I don't accept blackmail.
 

betskand

Patron with Honors
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

I am just telling you that it was LRH's original point and idea about disconnection.

As a Case Supervisor for years, that was why and what it was about. The disconnection was from the technology that would save you from an eternity in the dwindling spiral.

It was not to punish family members, that was secondary (incidental).

It was to punish the SP by disconnecting from the TECH. That was LRH's original intent in the disconnection policy for declared SP's.

If you have a family member who is PTS, that person would try to handle, handle handle as they could. As long as the person they are trying to handle is not SP declared, there was no real reason to disconnect. Unless nothing else was working to get the PTS'es item (the named person, which I don't want to call SP because they have not been labeled as such by Scn goldenrod).

----------------------


I am trying to explain why.


Maybe there should be a separate thread on it. Or an article on why disconnection. Why does Scn do it?

I would be interested in such a thread. As far as the "logic" of any of Elron's decrees: I just finished Bare-Faced Messiah, and all I can think is that the ONLY final explanation is to be found in the fact that he was seriously paranoid and malignantly narcissistic...as well as possibly schizophrenic.

A judge (can't remember the name, but I'm sure many of you do) included in his statement something to the effect that the Church took its character from the mental illnesses of its founder. I think that sounds right, and although David M. is not the "original" LRH was, he is quite effective in replicating the violence, paranoia, need for constant approbation, etc. of LRH. Therefore CO$ can be said to be carrying on a very fundamental aspect of its origins.

I'm sure the reasons for disconnection are several...but one of them HAS to be the simple act of forcing followers to make an incredibly UNNATURAL decision to demonstrate their loyalty. Once such a decision is acted on the person is REALLY REALLY STUCK. People who get out say that one reason they took so long was that they had so much invested in the thing, emotionally as well as financially, that they didn't want to admit, especially to themselves, that they had done these things in the name of a pack of lies. Well, after a person has dumped his family, his sense of investment must be multiplied by 1,000. At that point, with so much hurt involved, it must get really hard to say "I don't know why I did this. I just did." As I understand it, this is one of the prime factors in making brainwashing work and last.

That doesn't make it any less horrible.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

Granny haz no money to be bilked out of and knows cult/LRon is full of crap, bye-bye moar family! :angry:
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

Scientology.

It's absurd. :biggrin:

And Boston, in case you don't know about me: I have plenty of experience with disconnection. My dad got SP declared when I was 3 (1975) and I only reconnected with him after I got SP declared in 2004.

Currently my mom, Sea Org member, has been disconnected from me (and the rest of her family too) since I got declared in 2004.

It doesn't have to make sense, it's Scientology, right?!?!?! :biggrin:
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

Disconnection is heart-wrenching and it SUCKS! This is ridiculous to do this to an elderly. C'mon now, Scn, show some compassion (oh yeah, you need a dictionary to know what that word means).


I just wanted to make a comment here about the subject of disconnection in general.

The whole point of disconnection was not particularly to punish families, that, to Scn, is an aside after-effect. The whole point of it is to deny the Suppressive Person the chance to avail themselves of the wonderful technology that Scn has to offer. That is what family members who are disconnecting think they are doing. They think it is for the good of the SP. They do not consider themselves to be "effect" of that terrible SP family member. They do it to encourage the person to get straight and get back into Scientology.

Makes no sense cause its ass backwards. But its true.

A little story to substantiate this:

I was at Flag eating with a friend who had come from San Diego for training. Very sincere fellow, who looked at me very sincerely, fork poised, and said with all sincerity(paraphrased), "I always thought you should have been declared so you'd have a chance to make it." He thought I was so PTS from having my own ideas and being unable to make up my mind that only the threat of losing my eternity would be sufficient to get me back on purpose.

It was all I could do not to laugh in his face, spitting a mouth full of food across the table.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

This thread got me thinking more about disconnection.

I am a kiwi and have looked hard at the NZ Govt. Inquiry which was based around disconnection.

I now believe that disconnection is no more sophisticated than a cruel barbaric tool to perpetuate the "us and them" mentality that is necessary for a destructive controlling group. An individual is only useful if they are thinking and behaving in full accordance with the party-line. If re-programming them (tweaking with ethics tech, etc) doesn't work, then they are no longer useful to the agenda. Hurl them out and isolate them from those that are in full accordance to the mind-control agenda. Keep the "faithful and unfaithful" separate. Do not let the unfaithful taint and corrupt the useful fully compliant individuals.

In the NZ Inquiry (1968/'69) there was a lot of evidence presented to the Inquiry Committee of disconnection. At the 11th hour of the proceedings Hubbard bashed out a letter to the Committee saying "All good, we've changed our policies on disconnection, won't be doing it in the future". This was a lie. He simply re-worded a few policies to appease the Committee and to save his arse/cult in NZ.

Disconnection continued but was done "softly" i.e. no paper-trail was generated as had been the case prior to the Inquiry with the use of "disconnection letters".

Disconnection is inherently needed in a controlling "us and them" mentality group. You've got to have a system to separate the faithful and the unfaithful. That system makes an example of the unfaithful and fires up the devotion of the faithful. It is a very nasty aspect of the mind-control used by Hubbard. He spouts on how it is all about "saving your eternity". I don't see it that way any longer. It is, imo, about controlling the minds and lives of his devotees and thoroughly devaluing anyone that doesn't agree with him and his two-bit "path to total freedom" nonsense.

Just my two cents worth, a sort of morning ramble. :)
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

And Boston, in case you don't know about me: I have plenty of experience with disconnection. My dad got SP declared when I was 3 (1975) and I only reconnected with him after I got SP declared in 2004.

Currently my mom, Sea Org member, has been disconnected from me (and the rest of her family too) since I got declared in 2004.

It doesn't have to make sense, it's Scientology, right?!?!?! :biggrin:

To a Scientologist it makes perfect sense.

Ron is always right. That's the prime premise.

Only our failure to grasp his superior understanding is wrong. There are no contradictions in Scientology according to these simple "facts," just our inability to understand.

A Scientologist's mind is like a box of marbles. You start out with all sorts of colors and configurations of marbles in your box. You're given the task to arrive at a state where there are only red marbles in your box. So, you take in all the red marbles given you and discard all the other colors. Eventually, you reach the state where "only red marbles exist for you(inside your box)."

Someone comes along, and the Scientologist says, "only red marbles exist."

The other person holds up a basket of marbles in multicolors and says, "that's horses hit. Look at all these different colored marbles."

The Scientologist closes his eyes and says with great certainly, "ah, those are just in the condition of alter-is. In a perfect state, only red marbles exist."

"What? How'd you come up with that?"

"Because I'm in a perfect state, and all I see are red marbles." Big smile.

Makes perfect sense.

Unless you're willing to see outside that box.

I wonder if Scientology isn't some form of induced autism. (Not to offend the autistic.)
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

This thread got me thinking more about disconnection.

I am a kiwi and have looked hard at the NZ Govt. Inquiry which was based around disconnection.

I now believe that disconnection is no more sophisticated than a cruel barbaric tool to perpetuate the "us and them" mentality that is necessary for a destructive controlling group. An individual is only useful if they are thinking and behaving in full accordance with the party-line. If re-programming them (tweaking with ethics tech, etc) doesn't work, then they are no longer useful to the agenda. Hurl them out and isolate them from those that are in full accordance to the mind-control agenda. Keep the "faithful and unfaithful" separate. Do not let the unfaithful taint and corrupt the useful fully compliant individuals.

In the NZ Inquiry (1968/'69) there was a lot of evidence presented to the Inquiry Committee of disconnection. At the 11th hour of the proceedings Hubbard bashed out a letter to the Committee saying "All good, we've changed our policies on disconnection, won't be doing it in the future". This was a lie. He simply re-worded a few policies to appease the Committee and to save his arse/cult in NZ.

Disconnection continued but was done "softly" i.e. no paper-trail was generated as had been the case prior to the Inquiry with the use of "disconnection letters".

Disconnection is inherently needed in a controlling "us and them" mentality group. You've got to have a system to separate the faithful and the unfaithful. That system makes an example of the unfaithful and fires up the devotion of the faithful. It is a very nasty aspect of the mind-control used by Hubbard. He spouts on how it is all about "saving your eternity". I don't see it that way any longer. It is, imo, about controlling the minds and lives of his devotees and thoroughly devaluing anyone that doesn't agree with him and his two-bit "path to total freedom" nonsense.

Just my two cents worth, a sort of morning ramble. :)

Nothing quite as contagious as an idea.

You have to constantly wash your mind of unwanted ideas.

Of course, the Scientology approach is to take a fire hose and shove it up your ass.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientology says Disconnection of 83 year-old grandmother “most humane thing to d

Nothing quite as contagious as an idea.

You have to constantly wash your mind of unwanted ideas.

Of course, the Scientology approach is to take a fire hose and shove it up your ass.

Scientology...the great enema!

Cleanse yourself of any individuality and rationality and compassion and humanity.
 
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