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Scientology says it's just like Salvos - SMH

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Sydney Morning Herald - http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...-says-its-just-like-salvos-20100628-zepg.html
Scientology says it's just like Salvos
GABRIELLE DUNLEVY
June 28, 2010 - 5:44PM
AAP

The Church of Scientology has compared itself to The Salvation Army, while defending its benefit to the community in a Senate inquiry.

The organisation was scrutinised by an inquiry into legislation proposed by independent senator Nick Xenophon, which would require religious groups to prove what public benefit they provide, before getting tax breaks.

Its representative, Virginia Stewart, told the committee its members lent a hand in times of disaster and promoted drug-free messages."The church believes the proposed bill is inherently flawed and puts at risk the financial future of charities and religions in Australia," she said.

But a Church of Scientology officer from New Zealand, Mike Ferris, told the inquiry that a public interest test in his country had done no harm.

Scientology has charitable status in New Zealand, where the Charity Commission of New Zealand was established in 2005.

It demands charities clear a public benefit test, and makes them hand over financial statements, which are available publicly online.

Mr Ferris said he believed the commission had been fair to the Church of Scientology.

"I think the New Zealand Charities Commission has treated us fairly," he said.

"I think it's a fair process."

The inquiry also heard from ex-Scientologists who went public with their shocking experiences earlier this year, when Senator Xenophon twice failed in efforts to have an inquiry into abuse allegations.

Among them was James Anderson, who claims he and his wife spent up to $1.2 million on Scientology materials, and Janette Vonthehoff, who says she was coerced into having abortions, and worked long hours for the organisation under duress.

Both argued the organisation should not get tax-free status, because it was completely self-serving, and provided no benefit to taxpayers.

Mr Ferris compared the glare on Scientology to that previously directed at The Salvation Army.

"They weren't welcome here in Australia, they weren't welcome in New Zealand in the early 19th century because of their view against alcohol," he said.

"They were beaten up and they were persecuted, so where do you go?"

Mr Ferris was asked why the records on the website of his country's charity commission showed the organisation went from an income of $2.6 million in 2007, to $374,000 in 2008.

"I think that drop in income, was actually, from memory, was the exchange rate drop, absolutely," he said, but later admitted he wasn't certain.

The Church of Scientology also committed to handing over its books to the committee for further scrutiny.

© 2010 AAP
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
Actually, they would probably do better these days by standing outside a store and pounding a drum.
 

ULRC/S

Patron with Honors
Yeah, and as a NZ Class 4/5 org would have only local business, then exchange rate is completely irrelevant. Complete horseshit.

Regards, Allen
 
Sydney Morning Herald - http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...-says-its-just-like-salvos-20100628-zepg.html
Scientology says it's just like Salvos
GABRIELLE DUNLEVY
June 28, 2010 - 5:44PM

There was a point where one of the committee members (the one with the Scottish accent I think) had obviously had enough of Mike Ferris's nonsense about past religious groups of the past. It was most drivel. Half diversionary, half incompetence....anyway, that committee member asked a question and then told Mike, specifically NOT to talk about history.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah, and as a NZ Class 4/5 org would have only local business, then exchange rate is completely irrelevant. Complete horseshit.

Regards, Allen

Yes you would be right but if that entity was moving large sums of monies off-shore then the international exchange rate would be very relevant.

The drop in income which Mike had memory problems on (which he assigned to "exchange rate issues" and which would have been a huge flap for him) is very interesting.
 
I don't know much about the Salvation Army, but I have a feeling they do not shakedown their members for thousands of dollars, imprison them against their will, and force them to have abortions. But they do both wear uniforms so I can see how a Scientologist might confuse the two.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't know much about the Salvation Army, but I have a feeling they do not shakedown their members for thousands of dollars, imprison them against their will, and force them to have abortions. But they do both wear uniforms so I can see how a Scientologist might confuse the two.

But you don't know the history of the Salvation Army, I do!
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator

You gotta read this - it's funny.

http://thatjeffcarterwashere.blogspot.com/

Tuesday, June 29, 2010

We're Just Like the Salvation Army...

The Church (cough! cough!) of Scientology has been in trouble recently. Reports of their slave-labor, forced-abortions, abusive-leadership, tax-dodging, criminal activities have been popping up everywhere.
And now, in an attempt to counter all that bad press, they are attempting to hide behind the good name of legitimate-honest-to-God church and charitable organization: The Salvation Army.

Australian independent senator, Nick Xenophon has proposed some legislation that would require religious groups to prove what public benefit they they provide before being able to claim tax-exemption. Scientologists - fearful of loosing their tax exempt status in Australia - now claim that they are just like the Salvation Army.

I realise, of course, that I'm biased here. I am, after all, an officer in The Salvation Army. But this claim is outrageous.

Our services are provided (for the most part) free of charge. Not so in the Church of Scientology where members can expect to pay thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to receive services from the Church and to reach higher levels. Our drug and alcohol recovery programs have a demonstrable record of success - not so with Scientology's Narconon (Not to be confused with Narcotics Anonymous!). The Salvation Army has always been open and forthright about it's financial records. We keep ourselves accountable to the public whose donations fund our work. Not so with the secretive Scientologists.

"Like the Salvation Army?" I don't think so....

Well, except for maybe one thing. Within the Church (cough! cough!) of Scientology there is group known as the "Sea Org" who wear uniforms similar to ours.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
There were some of us, who didn't get it and were clearly delusional, in the 1980s - 1990s who tried to convince the COS to be [STRIKE]more[/STRIKE] charitable, to provide food for the homeless, perhaps even a homeless shelter -- to actually, you know, act like a real religion.

Please, stop laughing. I admit we were delusional.

[Then again, you should have seen the reaction I got when I started directing homeless people to Sunday services and, more importantly, the free meal. That went over well.]

Anyways, the standard objection was the Scientology Doctrine of Exchange. To provide people with food or shelter at no cost would be "out-exchange" and obviously bad for them. Better that they eat out of garbage cans and sleep in the rain.

The ironic thing is that a big current complaint by COS members and recent ex-members, and a big complaint by the Independent Scientology crowd, is that the COS is "out-exchange" -- but in entirely the opposite direction. Instead of giving people things (food, shelter, counseling) for "no exchange" (no money), it is instead taking things (money) for people from people for IAS, Idle Org, Preservation of the Tech, Library Campaigns, etc. for "no exchange" (no auditing or training).

Yep, we were real successful. We wanted the COS to become [STRIKE]more[/STRIKE] charitable, and it went in precisely the opposite direction. We thought it couldn't possibly get worse. We were wrong.


/
 
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moarxenu

Patron with Honors
Yup, we exchanged PMs a few times today on WWP. He's going to check Salvation Army headquarters to see if they are going to issue a formal response to scientology claims.

If Jeff Carter is on WWP what is his handle?
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Scientologists have been using the Salvation Army analogy since the 70s.
I was first taught it in about 1976 and, embarrassed as I am to admit it, used it as an analogy many times whilst I was a scientologist.
 
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