JustSheila
Crusader
Huh? Hello. Welcome to ESMB. What is a POC? What's going on?
Scientology stole my son, help needed
- Thread starter Free to shine
- Start date
Huh? Hello. Welcome to ESMB. What is a POC? What's going on?
guanoloco
As-Wased
Point of Contact...I assume...
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
He started a thread "Scientology stole my son, Vancouver org", and appears to have posted to this, different, thread by mistake.
This is the father of the kid mentioned at the beginning of this thread
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Enthetan
Master of Disaster
Re: Scientology stole my son... Vancouver Org...
There's already a thread up about you, see the other thread for accumulated advice
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?44192-Scientology-stole-my-son-help-needed
I've asked the Mods to merge them
There's already a thread up about you, see the other thread for accumulated advice
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?44192-Scientology-stole-my-son-help-needed
I've asked the Mods to merge them
M
Moderator 3375
Guest
Re: Scientology stole my son... Vancouver Org...
The two threads have now been merged.
The two threads have now been merged.
JustSheila
Crusader
Okay, I've read this and watched the vid and understand the basic story. Sounds awful!
From a practical fundraising POV, this needs to be narrowed down with some specifics, like what is going on with the legalities of the divorce and custody battle? Is there any court action in progress at this time and what is the current legal status? That is, if this is a fundraising for legal fees to get custody of the child. Is there an attorney who has agreed to represent the case? What is the estimated legal fees? What is the anticipated goal/outcome? Does that outcome depend on proving stable employment, income and housing (like most custody battles)? Where does that stand right now?
Is the child's whereabouts known? If not, have kidnapping charges been filed? What are current visitation rights? Have those rights been denied?
Maybe I'm just dense, but I've gotten confused by the additional background information and somehow haven't found these basic facts. If it's just me, I apologize. I'm just trying to find where things stand currently for the GoFundMe project. We've raised money effectively before. I'm having trouble understanding the precise goal here, though.
From a practical fundraising POV, this needs to be narrowed down with some specifics, like what is going on with the legalities of the divorce and custody battle? Is there any court action in progress at this time and what is the current legal status? That is, if this is a fundraising for legal fees to get custody of the child. Is there an attorney who has agreed to represent the case? What is the estimated legal fees? What is the anticipated goal/outcome? Does that outcome depend on proving stable employment, income and housing (like most custody battles)? Where does that stand right now?
Is the child's whereabouts known? If not, have kidnapping charges been filed? What are current visitation rights? Have those rights been denied?
Maybe I'm just dense, but I've gotten confused by the additional background information and somehow haven't found these basic facts. If it's just me, I apologize. I'm just trying to find where things stand currently for the GoFundMe project. We've raised money effectively before. I'm having trouble understanding the precise goal here, though.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
You have a strong position, as long as you don't screw it up.
Things that would screw up your position would include saying ANYTHING which could be twisted into the appearance of a threat of violence. Do not do that.
Why do you have a strong position?
1) Wife appears to be a mess. Is she able to hold a job? Is she able to pay her bills? If not, who is paying her bills?
2) Son misses you and apparently hates Scientology. This makes him "troublesome" around the Org.
3) Son is young, too young to be left by himself while wife does stuff around the Org. This makes her vulnerable to charges of neglect.
2) Son misses you and apparently hates Scientology. This makes him "troublesome" around the Org.
3) Son is young, too young to be left by himself while wife does stuff around the Org. This makes her vulnerable to charges of neglect.
From up-thread, I noted that one thing you could do was make a case to the boss of your ex-step-mother who is head of DSA Vancouver that perhaps it would be best all around if he could convince her to let you have custody of your son.
That would be
"Director of Special Affairs East US,
care/of Church of Scientology New York,
227 W 46th St New York, NY 10036"
Be sure to be calm, rational, and ESPECIALLY non-threatening. Let him know that his subordinate apparently has been using Church resources in this issue, to interfere with custody of your son. Assure him that all you want is your son, and you will go away and not bother Church of Scientology any more once you have custody.
Apparently, your wife is deeply involved. Your son would be a distraction to that involvement, and once you have him, then she can be as dedicated a full-time staff member as she wants. She would even be free to re-marry another Scientologist (guys are less likely to want a woman who presents him with another man's kid to support, than a woman who is unencumbered).
From your years in the military, I assume you have a whole bunch of buddies whom you could reach out to? I would urge you to present your issue to them. Ask them to look up their nearest Scientology organization, using the Scientology Organization Locator (http://www.scientology.org/churches/locator.html ), and call (or HUNDRED TIMES better, VISIT if possible) and talk to them about why Scientology likes breaking up families. If Scientology organizations all over the UK, Canada (and wherever else you got mates posted) start getting calls and visits, they WILL want to figure out a way to make the disruptions stop.
Scientology is used to dealing with lawyers, and they are experts at causing the other side to spend money on lawyers until the other side runs out of money. Go outside their experience. And they dislike negative publicity.
Anybody here got a way to contact Leah Remini? I think this case might make an excellent segment for her series.
JustSheila
Crusader
Good advice. Btw, Enthetan, from the video and statements, they are still legally married.It has been my experience that until custody is established, if there is a legal challenge to the Scientologist seeking custody, in general, the Church of Scientology will not legally back the Scientologist staff member in court, but instead, stays out of it except through their internal kangaroo proceedings. As you said, a child is considered a distraction to a staff member. Showing in court how staff members neglect their children is not something that C of S wants to do. Normally the non-Scientologist has more time, a better job and a better home for the child. Once custody is established, it's completely different, though.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
Re: Scientology stole my son... Vancouver Org...
It looks like this WAS a "Honey Pot" operation -- set up by YOUR parents, who seem to be the actual driving force behind it all.
You were not interested in Scientology. This made them look bad around the Org. So they arrange to hook you up with a girl who they could turn into your anchor into Scientology. They then used the relationship to siphon money out of you, to Scientology, until you had no money left that they could grab. At that point things soured.
Why would selection to SAS be so opposed by Scientology? Because in SAS you would be working on confidential missions. You would need the UK equivalent of a top-secret security clearance. Scientology CANNOT have people with security clearances. You could not get auditing, because you could not reveal secret data, and if you DID reveal secret data in session, or were even suspected of having done so by SAS, then it would bring DEEPLY unwanted attention on the Org from government counter-intelligence people.
You were prized for as long as you were bringing in money. As soon as you stopped bringing in money, then you were a liability to be disposed of. That was what was happening behind the scenes.
It looks like this WAS a "Honey Pot" operation -- set up by YOUR parents, who seem to be the actual driving force behind it all.
You were not interested in Scientology. This made them look bad around the Org. So they arrange to hook you up with a girl who they could turn into your anchor into Scientology. They then used the relationship to siphon money out of you, to Scientology, until you had no money left that they could grab. At that point things soured.
Why would selection to SAS be so opposed by Scientology? Because in SAS you would be working on confidential missions. You would need the UK equivalent of a top-secret security clearance. Scientology CANNOT have people with security clearances. You could not get auditing, because you could not reveal secret data, and if you DID reveal secret data in session, or were even suspected of having done so by SAS, then it would bring DEEPLY unwanted attention on the Org from government counter-intelligence people.
You were prized for as long as you were bringing in money. As soon as you stopped bringing in money, then you were a liability to be disposed of. That was what was happening behind the scenes.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
That brings up another thing: the org may want to have a meeting with dad.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES go into the Org for anything. Do not. It will be an ambush. Tell them to send all communications in writing. Preferably via your lawyer, if you have one.
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
DerPanzerGraf,
I really wouldn't get into the personal aspects of your marriage on the net if I were you ... I'd keep things very simple but with laser like focus on what matters ... ie you want full/part custody of your son, which is your absolute right as his Father.
The cult and it's crazy policies have zero relevance in the real world ... but let it be known that they are being used against you, shout that to anyone who will listen ... they don't appreciate bad PR in that hateful cult.
I realise that you are probably not wanting advice (especially from people that you don't know) but I would delete that post ASAP (number 18 below) and stay well above all the "he said/she said" ... I don't believe it will help (you) to splash that around, I do know how hard it can be but remain 100% respectful of your wife, she may use whatever you say against you ... so give her nothing to fight back against ... attack the cult, not your wife or parents, your little boy will probably thank you for it later.
You have 24 hours after posting to delete a post (or alter it) ... obviously you must do what you feel is best but if you do delete it I will delete this when I next log in (and I expect others will do the same or perhaps a mod would assist to remove anything you decide you'd prefer deleted).
I wish you all the very best with this ... and I hope you don't take offence at my suggestion.
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
Very wise counsel.
The father should expect that anything he says will be contorted and used against him.
The father may feel that he has nothing left to lose by playing this out in public and he may be right but it could also prejudice the court against him.
Courts are already institutionally biased against giving father's primary custody and will only deny primary custody to the mother unless there are very clear reasons to do so. I suspect they will be inclined to overlook any role Scientology has in this unless it can be factually demonstrated that it places the child in danger and the burden of proof will be strongly biased in favor of the mother.
I am not a lawyer.
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cleared cannibal
Silver Meritorious Patron
Anybody here got a way to contact Leah Remini? I think this case might make an excellent segment for her series.[/QUOTE]
Mike Rider has gotten back to me a couple of times when I have contacted him pretty quick. He should have her ear. May be preoccupied with the show right now though.
Mike Rider has gotten back to me a couple of times when I have contacted him pretty quick. He should have her ear. May be preoccupied with the show right now though.
exseaorgclocmoflagetc
Patron with Honors
if your in canada you have better chances..there have been a few cases that I know of where the custody ruled that it was no good for a child to be in a cult. Canada is better than the US.
Good Luck
Good Luck
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