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Scientology Study Tech In The Real World

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
It has to be used judiciously, not rotely. Sometimes there is obvious (to me) missing data, or it is badly worded or uses slang I figured the student in front of me wouldn't know, in which case I would address that. But when I figured the student should be able to understand it as written, I found that to be the simplest approach that worked. Rotely asking for mu's or something was a route to trouble.

I do it myself, too, if I don't get something (non-Scn these days) at first try. Sometimes it takes a few readings before I get it. Sometimes the text is badly written, but sometimes it's just me being slow on the uptake.

Paul

I agree with you totally about rereading material upon bog down to see if the understanding is improved.

I think this seriously applies to some technical books of an extreme nature where all teh basics are already understood and all one has to do is make sure they are following everything the author is laying out.

Ten years ago I read this book:

Introduction to Nonlinear Differential and Integral Equations (Dover Books on Mathematics) [Paperback] by Harold T. Davis

When I bogged down I never had to find an MU and pull out some math book of a lesser level than this one nor did I have to pull out a Math dictionary. I merely had to restudy some sections.

Many of these highly techical books are written in a way where several concepts are introduced and they don't become clearly understood until one has gone through the meat and potatoes of where they are all combined and laid out in full and going through them several times might be the order of the day.

Would L Ron fault the authors for the way they presente it? Absolutely.

Would L Ron be justified in faulting the authors? Absolutely not.

I prefer the tech on rereading as it is workable and there are particular situations where it might be the only workable way.

Rd00
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
I use bits of Scientology in my auditing applications, but this amounts to a small fraction of it, and even those bits have usually been refined. I don't think it would be at all accurate to call my stuff "Scientology" or "New Scientology" as there is so much of Scientology that is not part of it.

Even quite apart from maybe having better stuff, simply not calling it 'Scientology' anymore probably saves you from a lot of pointless arguments with critics for whom the s-word is a red flag, but who might even be interested in what you do, once the s-word is gone.

But this is why I can't help feeling that those who do still identify themselves as Scientologists must have a rather stronger attachment to Hubbard than merely feeling that some of his stuff can be salvaged. Because if that's all they were really saying, then surely they'd also save themselves aggro by dropping the s-word.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Even quite apart from maybe having better stuff, simply not calling it 'Scientology' anymore probably saves you from a lot of pointless arguments with critics for whom the s-word is a red flag, but who might even be interested in what you do, once the s-word is gone.

But this is why I can't help feeling that those who do still identify themselves as Scientologists must have a rather stronger attachment to Hubbard than merely feeling that some of his stuff can be salvaged. Because if that's all they were really saying, then surely they'd also save themselves aggro by dropping the s-word.

It's also a question of honesty, and not merely expedience. At least, it was for me.

My first PaulsRobot modules were straight Scientology procedures (like Opening Procedure by Duplication and Opening Procedure of 8-C). But the *idea* of a working computerized auditor is so anti-Hubbard (he says it is impossible) that I didn't consider "Paul's Robot Auditor" was Scientology even at the outset.

In 2004 I considered myself a Scientologist. For the past few years I haven't. But it wasn't a clean break at all. It's not like on July 1 2007 I stopped paying my Galactic Patrol membership dues. As I became aware of more and more in the Scientology universe that was false or superfluous, and at the same time — thanks to ESMB — of what a scumlord Hubbard was, and also developed more actions for PaulsRobot that were not Scn-oriented at all, the label became less and less appropriate.

Paul
 
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Hardly anything is so thoroughly bad that nothing good whatever can be taken from it. By discarding bad parts and interpreting ambiguous parts nicely, you can make something decent out of almost anything. If you do enough discarding and interpreting, though, there comes a point at which it would be a clearer use of language to change the name as well. If what I'm driving is basically a Ford, I should not keep calling it a Mercedes just because it's got some tri-star hubcaps on it.

Behind the pointless word games there is a genuine debate: Does there exist a subject which is
a) coherent enough to deserve a specific name of its own,
(b) closely enough related to the original work of L. Ron Hubbard (insofar as Hubbard actually did any original work) to warrant the use of Hubbard's title of 'Scientology', and
(c) good?

If there exists a subject that satisfies all three of those criteria, then I think the indie Scientologists could have a place to stand, despite whatever inconsistencies or evils there may be within Hubbard's legacy as a whole. But if there does not exist such a subject, satisfying all three of the above criteria, then defending Scientology while repudiating Hubbard is merely a sophistical word game, like naming your car for its hubcaps.

Furthermore, suppose for the sake of argument that there does exist a coherent subject that is of value, and is also close enough to Hubbard's Scientology that it would be reasonable to call the refined subject Scientology after it. I'd want to ask, is it actually necessary to call the refined subject by Hubbard's name? Is the refined subject really so close to Hubbard's creation that it would be disingenuous to call it anything else but Scientology? Or would it not be just as legitimate to find a new name for the subject nowadays, even if one feels bound to admit that the Scientology of L. Ron Hubbard was an important source?

I agree with this.

The use of the word scientology was not my choice, but neither do I have any strong objection to the word on either emotional or substantive grounds. Many of those who object to the word do so simply because of unpleasant personal associations, and not for substantive reasons.

The subject of scientology as it is commonly understood encompasses much of material which I have found to be useful. Valid spiritual/mental concepts & practices which may be found in a wide variety of schools of thought. Also, many of these concepts which may exist in obscure or archaic forms elsewhere are simply described and easily understood in descriptions available in scientology material.

It could be called 'Principles of Post-Modern Esoteric Gnosticism', or just about anything you care to name it. It would still BE scientology.

Many spin-off endeavors created by former members of the Co$ have adopted different terminology out of preference for a policy of disassociation with the church. This has often been despite the fact that much of what they offer is quite similar, if not exactly the same, as scientology.

My own preference is NOT to attempt to disguise a prior association with the Co$. Basically, it just adds unnecessarily to the complexity of understanding the relationships involved among such practices. But also, thanks to the history of the Co$ and l. ron hubbard neither is there any glory or benefit to be had in being seen to retain a 'hubbard brand'. Yet I see no particular benefit in adopting a different word, just as I see no particular difficulty in retaining the use of the word scientology.

Since this is a board for former members of the church of scientology, it is fair to assume that most of the people on the board are familiar with the ideas embodied in the subject of scientology, associate those ideas with scientology, and first became familiar with those ideas in scientology.

Many of the people here have developed convoluted objections to the word scientology which are fundamentally founded upon their own individual histories involving abuse and upset with the Co$. That does not invalidate the use of the word scientology. It simply indicates the degree of emotional bias present on any forum where open discussion of scientology is conducted. If a person is so traumatized by the word scientology as to be unable to bear it, then perhaps regularly frequenting a message board where that word forms the basis of much discussion and is in fact included within the title is an action of questionable advisability.

Accordingly, to some degree the continued use of the word scientology promotes mutual discussion and has the additional benefit of being accurate, even if some are blinded by their own emotional associations with the word.

ESMB is among other things a place which encourages open discussion of scientology, something not encouraged within the church. Different members have had different experiences and accordingly there are many different views of what exactly constitutes scientology. Some are quite interesting & informative. Others are heavily polarized and, whereas these are often among the most popular, they are often the least reasonably defensible.

My interest is in enhancing spiritual awareness. I have found much of benefit in the subject of scientology which relates to spiritual awareness. The same is true of other spiritual practices and studies. Each has advantages as well as disadvantages. There is much that is common among the various disciplines just as there are things which are unique.

What a thing is to be called ultimately is not especially important; whether it is seen as a 'pro' or a 'con'.

... O! be some other name:
What’s in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet; ...


William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act II, Sc. II, ll 46-48


Mark A. Baker
 
... It does not make the "one step" approach a requirement. ...

With regard to scientology practices, I regard 'requiring', although the common practice of the church, to be an actual violation of the fundamentals of scientology, notably the codes.

Accordingly I've never been one to 'require', only 'suggest' for consideration. Still, application of 'gradients' is a very very reasonable & pragmatic approach to achievement.


... He probably never understood the application of gradient that is presented in Calculus.

Rd00

Bet on it. It's very clear from his many ill conceived remarks touching on mathematical subjects that hubbard was genuinely ignorant of the basic principles of mathematics. His skills, such as they were, lay in the use of language for narrative and explanatory effect.


Mark A. Baker
 
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I like Clearbird too. If I want to tell the good bits from the other ones, there it'll be much easier because of the simple language used (I'm not a native speaker as most of the people here can see from my phrasing) and because Clearbird is very straightforward and tells only the things one needs to know.

Same here. :thumbsup:

I prefer to refer newcomers to the Clearbird materials as they illuminate the best aspects of scientology in a reasonably coherent & fairly clear format.

Once a basic understanding is achieved then reading specific selections by lrh may be beneficial, depending on what is read. But as a sole basis for understanding the subject of scientology a complete and exclusive reliance on familiarity with the totality of writings by hubbard has many well established and over-whelming disadvantages.


Mark A. Baker
 
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Even quite apart from maybe having better stuff, simply not calling it 'Scientology' anymore probably saves you from a lot of pointless arguments with critics for whom the s-word is a red flag, but who might even be interested in what you do, once the s-word is gone.

But this is why I can't help feeling that those who do still identify themselves as Scientologists must have a rather stronger attachment to Hubbard than merely feeling that some of his stuff can be salvaged. Because if that's all they were really saying, then surely they'd also save themselves aggro by dropping the s-word.

Still it's an assumption on your part that it implies a residual attachment to hubbard. That isn't necessarily true. As I've stated, it is how much of the subject has been traditionally known and almost all the people on this board are at least somewhat familiar with the subject as a result of prior involvement with the church.

The primary objection to the word lies in the upset of some individual's personal associations with the word. That is not a compelling reason to effectively 'censor', or at least alter, the character of open public discussions. Moreover, there are also valid reasons for retaining the word in such general discourse.

Besides, a person can always simply stop responding to flames. :)


Mark A. Baker
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
Accordingly I've never been one to 'require', only 'suggest' for consideration. Still, application of 'gradients' is a very very reasonable & pragmatic approach to achievement.

Mark A. Baker

There are times when a one step at a time approach is required.

While coaching youngsters in baseball and they were trying to learn the art of hitting a ptiched ball and I noticed 5 things that one of them was doing wrong, I literally picked up one thing at a time. But I told them that there were 5 things we had to work on and we would only be doing one thing at a time.

Sometimes it would take a few weeks to get the 5 things corrected.

But then again I also observed other coaches applying the same one thing at a time approach to other things such as fielding a grounder, setting oneself and then the throw.

The art of gradients, despite not being given a fancy flamboyant title of gradient was, is, and will continue to be alive and well in the world.

It's a good thing that Hubbard "discovered" gradients and that the whole Scientology community is working hard to get L Ron Hubbard's study tech out into the world.

It is mankind's only hope.

Rd00
 

Veda

Sponsor
I like Clearbird too. If I want to tell the good bits from the other ones, there it'll be much easier because of the simple language used (I'm not a native speaker as most of the people here can see from my phrasing) and because Clearbird is very straightforward and tells only the things one needs to know.

At first glance, it appears that "Clear," in Clearbird, is the end result, as in "We're done." Yet it seems to be a lead-in to something else, bait-and-switch-style.

Note, towards the bottom, that Clearbird leads to the Advanced Ability levels (With a Clear depicted, sitting at a table, with an e-meter, a dark cloud labelled "case" hovering over his head): http://www.freezoneearth.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/index.htm

http://www.freezoneearth.org/Prometheus04/files/gradechartCB.htm

http://www.freezoneearth.org/Prometheus04/powerR6/power/adv_levelsCB.htm

Once you're "Clear" you're, ominously, "at risk."

"Anyone who is Clear but not OT III had better be pushed up to OT 3 first because otherwise he is at risk." 'HCOB' 23 Dec 1971.

I like the Clearbird material. However, Clearbird and Prometheus Reports do seem to have a symbiotic relationship.

This is from the author of the Clearbird materials, under 'KSW and Clearbird':

"We respect Ron's tech for what it is, a complete system that has been tested and adjusted, re-tested and adjusted again, and now existed more or less in its final form for over 30 years." http://the-scientologist.com/clearbird.shtml

And that "complete system" does not end at "Clear."

Of course, one can pretty much do whatever one wants with almost anything, but it does seem that the Clearbird materials were (are) meant as introductory (lead in) to the rest of Scientology, rather than a statement that Scientology (meaning, in this case, Scientology counseling) is only valid up to "Clear."

Which explains why there's no "warning label" attached.

I still like Clearbird :), but, as with Scientology, there does seem to be something lurking behind the Clearbird curtain too. Apparently, to the author of Clearbird, it's just Ron's smiling face.
 
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loose cannon

Patron with Honors
Of course, one can pretty much do whatever one wants with almost anything, but it does seem that the Clearbird materials were (are) meant as introductory (lead in) to the rest of Scientology, rather than a statement that Scientology (meaning, in this case, Scientology counseling) is only valid up to "Clear."

Which explains why there's no "warning label" attached.

I still like Clearbird :), but, as with Scientology, there does seem to be something lurking behind the Clearbird curtain too. Apparently, to the author of Clearbird, it's just Ron's smiling face.
It never occurred to me that CB's intention would have been something else.
 
It never occurred to me that CB's intention would have been something else.

You are correct. CB was created for the specific purpose of providing an open source for standard tech. It is a gross misconception to consider that it would have been something else.

The author has written his 'non-standard' ideas in other works.


Mark A Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
You are correct. CB was created for the specific purpose of providing an open source for standard tech. It is a gross misconception to consider that it would have been something else.

The author has written his 'non-standard' ideas in other works.


Mark A Baker

"Anyone who is Clear but not OT III had better be pushed up to OT 3 first because otherwise he is at risk." 'HCOB' 23 Dec 1971.

From the author of the Clearbird materials:

"We respect Ron's tech for what it is, a complete system that has been tested and adjusted, re-tested and adjusted again, and now existed more or less in its final form for over 30 years." http://the-scientologist.com/clearbird.shtml
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
Are we 100% certain that the purpose of Scientology was to be educational?

Granted, 'finding the ruin' of a new Scientology victim often revealed that they hadn't read a whole lot since they left school... and if there's one thing a Scientology victim is going to be doing a lot of, it's buying books!

Still... was Scientology meant to educate, or did the pseudoreligion achieve some pseudoeducation as a byproduct of its fag-packet psychology? I mean, were poor old Ron's comments on education made out of a genuine desire to improve the educational system, or were they made in order to criticize that same educational system since it hadn't worked for him?

The US educational system was very patchy during the Scientology era, with some schools desperately under-funded and with out-of-date resources... but the kind of money a prominent Scientology victim is prompted to drop at an IAS event could sort out a whole school, not just meet the needs of their own kids. (And if Scientology in schools was about education, rather than indoctrination, the standard of education given within the Scientology machine would be better. The children of Scientology victims have far worse life chances than regular people on the outside.)

Really effective educational systems try to get people to think for themselves, but present-day Scientology has gone the other way. Parroting LRH is the form of study that gets you up the 'Bridge' nowadays. Think for yourself at your peril. So can that really be educational? I think not.

So Hubbard thought he understood education. He also thought he understood radiation. Photography. Jazz music. Submarine hunting. Venus.

Probably best we just let it die.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Heh! I found this when rummaging about in the archives looking for stuff on Study Tech. Here, Alan Walter talks about "Word Clearing":

LONDON LAWYER V GLASGOW COP ( miss-match )

A London lawyer runs a stop sign and gets pulled over by a Glasgow copper.

He thinks that he is smarter than the cop because he is a lawyer from LONDON and is certain that he has a better education then any Jock cop. He decides to prove this to himself and have some fun at the Glasgow cops expense!!

Glasgow cop says, ' Licence and registration, please.'

London Lawyer says, 'What for?'

Glasgow cop says, 'Ye didnae come to a complete stop at the stop sign.'

London Lawyer says, 'I slowed down, and no one was coming.'

Glasgow cop says, 'Ye still didnae come to a complete stop. Licence and registration, please.'

London Lawyer says, 'What's the difference?'

Glasgow cop says, 'The difference is, ye huvte to come to complete stop, that's the law, Licence and registration, please!'

London Lawyer says, 'If you can show me the legal difference between slow down and stop, I'll give you my licence and registration;and you give me the ticket. If not, you let me go and don't give me the ticket.'

Glasgow cop says, 'Sounds fair. Exit your vehicle, sir.'

The London Lawyer exits his vehicle.

The Glasgow cop takes out his baton and starts beating the f*ck out of the lawyer and says,

'Dae ye want me to stop, or just slow doon?'
 

loose cannon

Patron with Honors
"Anyone who is Clear but not OT III had better be pushed up to OT 3 first because otherwise he is at risk." 'HCOB' 23 Dec 1971.

From the author of the Clearbird materials:


"
We respect Ron's tech for what it is, a complete system that has been tested and adjusted, re-tested and adjusted again, and now existed more or less in its final form for over 30 years." http://the-scientologist.com/clearbird.shtml


"
There is new research taking place in this field. We support that. The technology presented here is a workable technology, not necessarily perfect. This research is done by true professionals that have practiced the existing technology for years and years. Clearbird's manuals do not contain any of this research as it is outside the scope of a basic textbook. The basics of the technology are sound and solid and that is what a student has to learn first; it's a long and hard study all by itself. We have thus concentrated on the basic technology and have taken great care that no alterations of the technology itself has been accidentally introduced."

-- How Technology Gets Altered

"
We have compared his works to other authors, such as L. Kin, Geoffrey Filbert, and the German philosopher A. Nordenholz (who wrote the first book and the first axioms of the subject - in 1934). We have written a completely new and comprehensive textbook based on these and other authors' works on the subject of standard technology."

-- Welcome to 'Clearbird'
 
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G

Gottabrain

Guest
In Scio study Tech, this actually would be a skipped gradient.

Not necessarily. Just skipped. Chapters didn't always build on one another, but once a class started talking about something that hadn't been studied, the student would lose interest. Not misunderstood, more like oblivious. :biggrin:
 

RogerB

Crusader
Not necessarily. Just skipped. Chapters didn't always build on one another, but once a class started talking about something that hadn't been studied, the student would lose interest. Not misunderstood, more like oblivious. :biggrin:

Correct . . . there is a BIG difference between a misunderstood and a non-understood as in non-comprehension.

And for those who have them identified . . . and many do . . . now is your opportunity to look at these prefixes in a good dictionary :biggrin::dieslaughing:

And further to the point, folks know when they do not understand something or when they experience a non-comprehension . . . . but I can tell you it is a very frequent occurrence to have folks with misunderstoods and to be totally unaware and unknowing of it.

R
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Correct . . . there is a BIG difference between a misunderstood and a non-understood as in non-comprehension.

In regular English maybe, but not in Hubbardingo. The HCOB that gives the different kinds of m/u, The Misunderstood Word Defined, I believe, includes "not understood" as one of the categories.

Paul
 
Correct . . . there is a BIG difference between a misunderstood and a non-understood as in non-comprehension. ...

In one sense yes, in another not so much.

Both leave the individual failing to understand the concept in question. In one instance the person is apt to realize he doesn't comprehend. In the other instance, the person is inclined to believe, erroneously, that he does. Neither is ideal, but the latter condition is the worse.


Mark A. Baker
 
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