Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Not necessarily. What is important is that others have both the right to contribute to the subject as well as the right to have access to the original materials and any innovations or content added by others.
Mark A. Baker
Not necessarily. What is important is that others have both the right to contribute to the subject as well as the right to have access to the original materials and any innovations or content added by others.
Mark A. Baker
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
I dimly remember Filbert being mentioned, is that correct? Do you happen to recall any of the others? (This saves me from having to re-read the stuff myself.) Thanks.
From http://freezoneearth.org/Prometheus04/:
Comparison
We have done a comparison between Ron Hubbard's work and a number of other researchers in the field. We have been able to obtain the works of four other writers on the subject. We have met more cooperation when it comes to these authors' works.
They are: Jeff Filbert. Publication: 'Excalibur Revisited' (1982).
L. Kin. Publication: 'From the Bottom to the Top - The Way Out' (1992).
The Pilot. Publication: 'Super Scio' (1997-99).
Some of Captain Bill Robertson's works.
These four researchers have made their materials available on the Internet and in books and do not contest fair use quotes of extensive nature for this study.
The Editors.
We have done a comparison between Ron Hubbard's work and a number of other researchers in the field. We have been able to obtain the works of four other writers on the subject. We have met more cooperation when it comes to these authors' works.
They are: Jeff Filbert. Publication: 'Excalibur Revisited' (1982).
L. Kin. Publication: 'From the Bottom to the Top - The Way Out' (1992).
The Pilot. Publication: 'Super Scio' (1997-99).
Some of Captain Bill Robertson's works.
These four researchers have made their materials available on the Internet and in books and do not contest fair use quotes of extensive nature for this study.
The Editors.
Paul
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
The copyright notice on CB's page (I used the one at FZ Earth) says:
© Clearbird Publishing, 2003, 2004, 2005. All rights reserved.
Last updated January 1st, 2005.
We allow downloading and electronic translations,
duplicate postings to the web, but not printed or commercial editions
without special agreement with the publisher.
Last updated January 1st, 2005.
We allow downloading and electronic translations,
duplicate postings to the web, but not printed or commercial editions
without special agreement with the publisher.
Maybe the copyright owner could be persuaded to change that to a more appropriate Creative Commons license, then, thou open source maven? Like a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Paul
loose cannon
Patron with Honors
It doesn't really belong to this thread, but if you mean believing in Clear as presented in early Hubbard's work, no, I don't believe in that. Such a state was IMO ok to be put as a goal during development of the techniques, but somehow LRH "forgot" to mention that in fact it had never been attained by anyone through his tech.
Even a couple of people in Prague mission, back in 2000, who only were to do the Clearing course to become a certified Clear told me that the actual state of Clear isn't by a long shot comparable to what was in DMSMH. They probably weren't aware what kind of horrible crime they were committing ;-)
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Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
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Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
That is an excellent suggestion. In light of his age and his lack of familiarity or involvement with the open source software & media community I think he did d@mn well to authorize free distribution in the manner he did. As you are closer to him than I, you might suggest it to him. My understanding is that he invites contact from others interested in technical innovations.
Mark A. Baker
Veda
Sponsor
Of course, how could I forget?
I notice that Clearbird also mentions Nordenholz, "who wrote the first book and first axioms on the subject in 1934." I have both the German original and the English translation. The translation, which I believe is the only English translation, or the only available English translation, was compiled by a Scientologist or former Scientologist years ago, so it's slightly "Scientology flavored." Even then, it's a wild stretch to say that Hubbard's Scientology somehow derives from Nordenholz, as there's no indication Hubbard ever read Nordenholz. Rather, this appears to be an attempt to legitimize Scientology, by tracing its origins back to an obscure German philosopher, who happened to use the term "Scientologie."
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
I've never read it, but that was my assumption too when I first heard about it. It's not like it's a highly unlikely juxtaposition of root-words.
Paul
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
That may well have been hubbard's intention had he in fact been aware of Nordenholz's work. In the case of CB, I suspect he was simply taking a cautious approach in his attributions. Since hubbard intentionally failed to publicly acknowledge many of his sources, its not always clear to what materials he had been exposed, nor how they may have influenced his own ideas. The word 'scientologie' is sufficiently close to the anglicized form as to warrant an acknowledgement, whether or not it is actually germane.
Mark A. Baker
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
But those four authors are all heavily Hubbard-influenced, -suggested I might say although it's awful English.
Paul
loose cannon
Patron with Honors
Even worse than mine?
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
So are you. Most people, strike that ..., ALL people with a scientology background are. At this point in time where the subject of scientology has been dependent for its transmission since its inception almost exclusively on the accumulated works of l.ron hubbard, that is to be expected.
Maybe after a hundred years of Open Source Scientology and Open Source Gnosticism that will change. I consider that would be a 'good' thing. In the meanwhile ...
Mark A. Baker
Veda
Sponsor
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that all four were/are Hubbard-intoxicated, as in excessively under the influence?
Others, similarly Hubbard-intoxicated, won't see it that way, of course.
RogerB
Crusader
Hmm, on Nordenholz and "Scientologie" . . . I was introduced to this by John MacMaster in around 1970 and I was given a copy of the stuff.
My recollection is that John was saying/inferring . . . that this was where Hubbard pinched the name and axioms concepts from.
John Mac stated to me that they were the "earlier similar" to Hubbard's Axioms and name of Scientology.
At the time, I was blind to such claims . . . but I well remember John's inference and that he spoke as though he actually knew of some basis of this in fact . . . like did he see such info in Hubbard's file or library.
I know I sent Hubbard a copy of Eric Butler's books . . . and it is likely Hubbard's thereafter assertions about the "hidden bankers ruling the world" was incited by that material.
Calling Arnie !
R
My recollection is that John was saying/inferring . . . that this was where Hubbard pinched the name and axioms concepts from.
John Mac stated to me that they were the "earlier similar" to Hubbard's Axioms and name of Scientology.
At the time, I was blind to such claims . . . but I well remember John's inference and that he spoke as though he actually knew of some basis of this in fact . . . like did he see such info in Hubbard's file or library.
I know I sent Hubbard a copy of Eric Butler's books . . . and it is likely Hubbard's thereafter assertions about the "hidden bankers ruling the world" was incited by that material.
Calling Arnie !
R
DagwoodGum
Squirreling Dervish
Once I realized that symbols, whether words or otherwise, can be created faster than I could ever unravel their supposed meanings I ceased to be at effect and no longer fell aneten to any purported MU phenomenon. In fact I could TR0 a stack of pages with nothing but big words that I didn't understand without being bothered in the least because I only need to understand what I choose to understand based upon personal necessity. While I was in I found myself so sidetracked chasing words down endless rabbit holes that served no purpose other than to distract me from the purpose of my studies. Or maybe that was the purpose, get me chasing my tail to the extent that I wouldn't notice that there wasn't much worth learning in my Scientology course packs...
RogerB
Crusader
kate8024
-deleted-
I'm a software developer and we use the terms mockup and mocking-up a _lot_ especially in our interactions with designers. Often designers will create some pictures of what they imagine the user interface of an application should look like termed creating a mockup or mocking-up. Sometimes developers will also create mockup interfaces for use in prototyping.
kate8024
-deleted-
My favorite words in Scientology are the -ness words like as-is-ness and having-ness which one almost never ever hears in the 'real' world, but in context do describe concepts without another single word that describes the concept (so it makes sense to me to use them in that context)
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