ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



"Scientology Task Force of the Hamburg Interior Authority" to be closed

Discussion in 'Europe' started by Mrs Beasley, Aug 15, 2010.

?
  1. Good riddance

    4.9%
  2. I don't care at all

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Sad and terrible news

    95.1%
  1. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    So the Hamburg Senate voted to save 140,000 Euros a year by scaling down the operation. This is not a huge sum to a large city government.

    Now, this didn't just happen out of the blue. Someone, one person, must have originally proposed this idea, and then it gained support. I have to ask, who was pushing this? What are *their* connections? I mean, I'm sure the CofS had nothing to do with it. . . .

    Paul
     
  2. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    Right. That's just peanuts. It isn't even enough to fill one of the many holes in the different budgets Hamburg has.

    Good question, but since too many political stuff happens behind closed doors (I've witnessed several "unofficial" meetings and saw what came from them), I doubt you'll ever find an acceptable answer to that one.

    Having that said, I think it's a big loss, that Ursula as the known and trusted go-to-gal has lost her position and her well-known and effective organization. But Germany has many organizations that can and do help cult victims. In my area, which has a low to medium population density, the Diakonie (a roof organization of the protestant church, under which all their "help and care" organizations operate) alone has at least 5 cult-related help and information centers within an area of less than 100 km².

    So I'd say $cn just has lost it's "special snowflake" status, and is now just another cult, like many others.

    Just my €0.02
     
  3. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    I see it different, in the public view it can seem so and it changed. But if you take a nearer look Scientology is different to other cults. That hasn't changed. They want to infiltrate the politic and other things. That behaviour of Scientology didn't stop. Of course we are having in Germany lots of other control and helping things against Scientology, but the Task Force was anything special.

    The Green Party in Germany is against the control of any cult etc. They made in the Hamburg Senat together with the CDU (Christian Democratic Union) a coalition. So that these to parties got in Hamburg the most votes. They are making together at the moment the politic in the State (not town) of Hamburg. Hamburg is a German State and a German Town (something special). They make a coalition with a contract and maybe that was one part of this contract, but this is a assumption.
     
  4. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    In which way is $cn different from other cults? Full control over all their members, bleeding them financially, physically and mentally dry, control over every aspect of their lives and thoughts, the promise to create a better world for "humanity" (however they define that term), all that can be found in many cults. $cn was just a bit more effective and successful with them getting the ear of opinion leaders and being able to ride on the coattails of valid topics (Human Rights, Drugs, Female Politicians, whatever). Apart from their "success" rate, I see no difference. The basic traits are the same in all cults.

    The Task Force WAS special, no doubt about that, but we have to live with the fact that "Democracy" deemed a new concert hall, or whatever it is, more important than a few lives. So all we can do is work with the tools we have left, and we still DO have quite a few of those.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  5. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    Scientology is very different from other cults. Just one question which cult has a secret service?
     
  6. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    these guys?

    Yeah, I can´t think of any other cult that has a secret service, but I suspect most "religions", cult sects, etc, has at least some kind of "PR" department, and attached lobby organisations.
     
  7. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    How would I know? They're "secret" :)
    But the moonies have something like that and some OSA-like stuff as well, IIRC. And did you follow the Baghwan story closely?
     
  8. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Most have some version of an in-house Gestapo. But, they're organized differently and most are internally directed, more than towards the 'heathens'. Exceptions there being the Mormons, Aum, Moonies and Bhagwanites.

    Scientology is, however, a special and extreme case.

    Zinj
     
  9. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    I made yesterday a very fast post. No time, children stood behind me....

    Yes, we have to work now with the tools that the parties in Hamburg left. But I can be angry :grouch: about this descison and IMO it is importand to write about that wrong descision.

    You wrote about "Democracy". In regular I like it to live in Germany. We can say what we think, without going to jail etc. We can go to the police without to be frightened for the police. As I was younger and I studied I went to a country (to help their children who lives in really bad conditions). In that country you had to be frightened when the police comes. A very terrible feeling.

    I think about Scientology and their target to infiltrate the politic in Democracy countries. IMO we have to educate more and speak more and it is wrong to play Scientology down. The closing of the Task Force in Hamburg plays Scientology down. It is a wrong signal. It is a wrong signal to Scientology, they see it as a win and a wrong signal to the people in Germany.

    I didn't want to live in a state where I must be frightened for the police. Where fear governed!:nervous:

    But it is true we have to live now with the other things that are left. The other organizations that could help, I postet it before, the Verfassungsschutz and the police.
    I remember as I read the book from Norbert Potthoff (an Exs). He wrotes that he after he came from Danemark was frightened to talk with the police, because the uniforms remembered him to the Sea Org uniforms. He lost his believe in the help of the police. I hope that Scientologists that wants to leave aren't frightened for the police and I also hope that they find the other helping resources that we are having.

    That resources we have to publish now and make it popular. :yes:
     
  10. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    Original posted at WWP by dispart http://forums.whyweprotest.net/291-...hamburg-scientology-task-force-close-70748/2/

    dispart:
     
  11. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    Just to make a small correction to Sauerländerin's post: Kriminalpolizei is just one branch of the German police force. Basically it's the investigative branch. Babelfish translates "Kriminalpolizei" to "plainclothes police", and I'd say that's what it basically is.
     
  12. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  13. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    Who is making the BDK bad? Not I, that's for sure. I just mentioned that the BDK only represents a part of a sub-section of Germany's police forces, not all of the German police forces.

    Hier mal auf Deutsch, damit du es auch verstehst: Der BDK repräsentiert einen (großen) Teil der Deutschen Kriminalbeamten. Der BDK repräsentiert NICHT die deutsche Polizei. Unterschied begriffen?

    Schlechtgemacht habe ich gar nichts, lediglich diesen IMO wichtigen Unterschied herausgestellt, den du unterschlagen hattest.
     
  14. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    First I quoted from WWP it wasn't my text.

    Second you wrote:

    It seems to me, that you made the BKD smaller than it is. That was the reason I corrected this. Plainclothes Police gets translated with Zivile Polizisten. I wanted to explain that the BKD is more than that. It seems to me that you make it bad. If it wasn't your intention, I will excuse.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  15. secretiveoldfag

    secretiveoldfag Silver Meritorious Patron

    I can't see that anyone has so far mentioned something that I seem to have picked up, that the new leader of the Hamburg Senate plans to ban Scientology once in office.

    If this is true (and I have no dox or linx) maybe he imagines this will solve the problem?

    If so, maybe he will find he is sadly mistaken?

    It is odd to me that the German Greens are, even passively, tolerant of Scientology. Do they know very much about it? On this topic the activities of Michael and Sabine Hinz alias Kent in Brandenburg are of some relevance. (I posted the whole thing in the Hitler thread.)
     
  16. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    You can excuse or not excuse whatever you want, it does not change the fact that the members of the BDK don't make 100% of the Kriminalpolizei, and the Kriminalpolizei doesn't make 100% of Germany's police force. Thats all I said.

    However, I still expect you to continue your misinterpretation of what I said, so all I can offer is this: I'll meet one higher-up German police officer on Monday, and 20 or 30 more of those over the next two weeks. Maybe one of them can give me a solid estimate on what the percentage of the Kriminalpolizei is, in relation to all of Germany's police forces. Maybe then you'll understand what I said, although I doubt it.
     
  17. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    As the film "Bis nichts mehr bleibt" was on topic. The new leader of Hamburg Alhaus said that Scientology should get forbidden. Now as he got voted he closed (together with the senat) the task force. I don't know why. Official they want to save money.

    What the really reason was, we don't know.

    I guess the Green Party is informated about Scientology. IMO it is against their ideals to fight against a cult. But this is speculation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  18. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    Again I quoted from WWP, I didn't translate it, I didn't write it and I didn't peculate like you wrote in German.

    The proplem is this sentence:
    Plainclothes police is less than the Kriminalpolizei is. It gets translated with Zivilstreife, but Kriminalpolizei is much more. It is a upper-middle-level civil servants. If I am telling a Kriminal Police Officer he is a Plainclothes Police Officer, he would get angry or he starts laughing. :wink2:

    That is fact :yes:
     
  19. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    dispart send me a PM at WWP.

    Here is the quote:

     
  20. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    Aus dem ersten Absatz dieser Seite: http://www.bdk.de/wer-wir-sind/
    Ergo: NICHT 100% aller Polizisten, und auch NICHT 100% aller Kriminalpolizisten. Könnt ihr vielleicht mal aufhören, hier falsch zu informieren, oder wäre das zu viel verlangt?