Scientology: The Higher OT Levels Begin After You Commit Suicide

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Listen to the following words of David Miscavige very carefully in the video below.
It was shot just after Hubbard died in 1986. DM explains why it was necessary for Hubbard to discard the body as well as the nature of an OT Level not yet released. Here is a partial quote, but listen to the entire video which is only a minute long:

"This level is beyond anything anyone of us ever imagined. This level is in fact done in an exterior state. Meaning that it is done completely exterior from the body. At this level of OT the body is nothing more than an impediment and an emcumbrance to any further gain as an OT."



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB-9B3_umy8
 

JBTrendy

Patron with Honors
Ron's Death by DM video

Listen to the following words of David Miscavige very carefully in the video below.
It was shot just after Hubbard died in 1986. DM explains why it was necessary for Hubbard to discard the body as well as the nature of an OT Level not yet released. Here is a partial quote, but listen to the entire video which is only a minute long:

"This level is beyond anything anyone of us ever imagined. This level is in fact done in an exterior state. Meaning that it is done completely exterior from the body. At this level of OT the body is nothing more than an impediment and an emcumbrance to any further gain as an OT."



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB-9B3_umy8

Good pick Type4, or how to justify the killing of the Old Man to desparate Scientologists.

I wasn't on lines at that point. I got in in 87 but this historical Data is valuable to me.

All the Best to you. :bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:
 

PeterMan

Patron with Honors
The body becomes less and less important the more you $.

An OT VII once told me that deciding to kill yourself is "just like deciding what you're going to have for breakfast."

hmm...
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
The body becomes less and less important the more you $.

An OT VII once told me that deciding to kill yourself is "just like deciding what you're going to have for breakfast."

hmm...

Now where in the hell would an OTVII get that consideration? Would it have anything to do with (secret?) OT levels hatting or processes? Anyone know if such might be the case? I believe Tory Christman mentioned it.
 

Mystic

Crusader
Hubbard-thing's purpose was to bring about spiritual vampire fodder for the entities who hang out in Bardo (Tibetan term) or call it "Purgatory", or the lower psychic darkness or where a being ends up in consciousness when they pass out of incarnation...for a while.

This aforementioned "OT VII" seems to be well on its way to fodderdom.

Spiritually speaking, this is VERY, VERY low-level stuff.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Listen to the following words of David Miscavige very carefully in the video below.
It was shot just after Hubbard died in 1986. DM explains why it was necessary for Hubbard to discard the body as well as the nature of an OT Level not yet released. Here is a partial quote, but listen to the entire video which is only a minute long:

"This level is beyond anything anyone of us ever imagined. This level is in fact done in an exterior state. Meaning that it is done completely exterior from the body. At this level of OT the body is nothing more than an impediment and an emcumbrance to any further gain as an OT."

...


“Exterior to the body” simply means that one is no longer identifying oneself with the body. It has nothing to do with “moving out of the body and no longer supporting the body.” There is nothing that moves in or moves out. It is simply a matter of being attached or being detached in one’s consideration.

This is simply a spin being put on an ordinary, human death. I don’t think Hubbard was a happy camper when he died. I think he was very much attached to his body. The very fact that he placed himself in hiding shows that he was very much afraid and concerned about the survival of body and identity.

One can have one’s body totally alive, and then be simply detached from it. That means, not having one’s attention tied to the survival of the body or to the survival of the identity springing from that body. One is not concerned about protecting that body or identity. One simply goes about one’s business using body/identity as an instrument. I can’t imagine any such business for which one has to intentionally make the body die.

An exterior or detached person can simply let the body be there, and let it die its natural death. An OT should be able to do it. He wouldn’t be desperately concerned about its survival by placing it in hiding.

.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
I was listening to the recent talks at the Hamburg symposium. What struck me as amazing was how DM could convince Jesse Prince to put down his gun and report to RPF in the Happy Valley.

DM must have some amazing persuasive power or hypnotizing ability. That alone makes him a valid successor to Hubbard.

But is DM as smart as Hubbard? I don't think so. He is a copycat.

.
 

ExKane

Patron
I was listening to the recent talks at the Hamburg symposium. What struck me as amazing was how DM could convince Jesse Prince to put down his gun and report to RPF in the Happy Valley.

DM must have some amazing persuasive power or hypnotizing ability. That alone makes him a valid successor to Hubbard.


.

Read up on sociopathy and sociopaths' roles in cults. The study of this, in my opinion, holds the answers to these questions regarding DM's and LRH's hypnotizing/persuasive/charming capacities.

Focus especially on:

In what ways are sociopaths more charming than the rest of us?

Why do people obey them?

What is it about not having a conscience that allows one to be extremely persuasive and charismatic?

How does this capacity lead them to assume the role of cult leader?

All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!
- L Ron Hubbard

The science of sociopathy holds the keys.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Read up on sociopathy and sociopaths' roles in cults. The study of this, in my opinion, holds the answers to these questions regarding DM's and LRH's hypnotizing/persuasive/charming capacities.

Focus especially on:

In what ways are sociopaths more charming than the rest of us?

Why do people obey them?

What is it about not having a conscience that allows one to be extremely persuasive and charismatic?

How does this capacity lead them to assume the role of cult leader?


- L Ron Hubbard

The science of sociopathy holds the keys.


Could you please summarize that science here, especially the key principles of that science.

Thank you.

.
 

OTBT

Patron Meritorious
“Exterior to the body” simply means that one is no longer identifying oneself with the body. It has nothing to do with “moving out of the body and no longer supporting the body.” There is nothing that moves in or moves out. It is simply a matter of being attached or being detached in one’s consideration.

This is simply a spin being put on an ordinary, human death. I don’t think Hubbard was a happy camper when he died. I think he was very much attached to his body. The very fact that he placed himself in hiding shows that he was very much afraid and concerned about the survival of body and identity.

One can have one’s body totally alive, and then be simply detached from it. That means, not having one’s attention tied to the survival of the body or to the survival of the identity springing from that body. One is not concerned about protecting that body or identity. One simply goes about one’s business using body/identity as an instrument. I can’t imagine any such business for which one has to intentionally make the body die.

An exterior or detached person can simply let the body be there, and let it die its natural death. An OT should be able to do it. He wouldn’t be desperately concerned about its survival by placing it in hiding.

Vinaire, I was at that event in LA. There was no misunderstanding DM's words. In essence, what DM was stating to everyone at the LRH Death Event was that on the higher OT levels - which are not released yet - a body becomes a Present Time Problem to an OT, and the solution is to discard, or cut all ties with, one's body. The body is no longer needed or wanted.

Please re-read DM's statement:

"This level is beyond anything anyone of us ever imagined. This level is in fact done in an exterior state. Meaning that it is done completely exterior from the body. At this level of OT the body is nothing more than an impediment and an emcumbrance to any further gain as an OT."

After the LRH Death Event, there was lots of gossip and rumors about how in years to come, after Upper OT levels were released, people would go to the Freewinds, wrap up all unfinished cyles of action, and causatively drop their bodies.

At that time, I actually believed that crap.
 

TEoS

Patron with Honors
After the LRH Death Event, there was lots of gossip and rumors about how in years to come, after Upper OT levels were released, people would go to the Freewinds, wrap up all unfinished cyles of action, and causatively drop their bodies.

This would most likely be allowed to happen ONLY when victim had been bled dry by the cult. Heaven forbid that the cult would let someone attain a dropped-body state whilst still having money left in the bank.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Vinaire, I was at that event in LA. There was no misunderstanding DM's words. In essence, what DM was stating to everyone at the LRH Death Event was that on the higher OT levels - which are not released yet - a body becomes a Present Time Problem to an OT, and the solution is to discard, or cut all ties with, one's body. The body is no longer needed or wanted.

Please re-read DM's statement:



After the LRH Death Event, there was lots of gossip and rumors about how in years to come, after Upper OT levels were released, people would go to the Freewinds, wrap up all unfinished cyles of action, and causatively drop their bodies.

At that time, I actually believed that crap.


Yes, DM's statement is a crap. That is what I basically pointed out.

And I explained that "being exterior" is a misnomer. The correct state is BEING DETACHED of Hinduism and Buddhism, which is foreign to Scientology.

BEING DETACHED doesn't require the giving up of the body.

.
 

OTBT

Patron Meritorious
Yes, DM's statement is a crap. That is what I basically pointed out.

And I explained that "being exterior" is a misnomer. The correct state is BEING DETACHED of Hinduism and Buddhism, which is foreign to Scientology.

BEING DETACHED doesn't require the giving up of the body.

Aaah, ok, I misunderstood you.

I remember thinking along these lines after the Death Event:

OK, its a few years later, I'm on OT XIX or some such level. Flying ruds at the beginning of session. PTP, that reads. What's the PTP? I have a body, so I can't go in session. Hmmm, time to route onto the next OT level, terminatedly handle all my cycles, and route out of my body.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Aaah, ok, I misunderstood you.

I remember thinking along these lines after the Death Event:

OK, its a few years later, I'm on OT XIX or some such level. Flying ruds at the beginning of session. PTP, that reads. What's the PTP? I have a body, so I can't go in session. Hmmm, time to route onto the next OT level, terminatedly handle all my cycles, and route out of my body.


That type of thinking is a cop out and not-ising of the reality. That's where the Church is stuck.

.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Well, call me a dunce with crashing MU's.. But I perceive Hubbard repeatedly 'persuading' that being dead and without a body, or any connection with this universe really, to be the preferred state of an OT.

"An OT does not need or want a body!" (Is that a correct quote anyway? - I don't recall where I have it from..)

What's more.. The 'advanced' scientologists that I knew back then had that idea.. That it was good and adviseable to opt out of the physical universe alltogether. Was explained to me coz' I wondered about it.. And was one important reason for me to opt out of Scientology..

:yes:
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

I remember thinking along these lines after the Death Event:

OK, its a few years later, I'm on OT XIX or some such level. Flying ruds at the beginning of session. PTP, that reads. What's the PTP? I have a body, so I can't go in session. Hmmm, time to route onto the next OT level, terminatedly handle all my cycles, and route out of my body.

Somewhere, out there, are at least several copies of a tape recorded phone conversation from January/February 1986. This recording, which I heard shortly after it was made, and remember fairly well, was between a person (I think now residing in the Netherlands) named George (pretending to be a Scientologist in good standing) and the Executive Director of a Scientology Mission and OT 7.

It was the first time that George had conversed with this person after the "Death Announcement." It was extremely strange.

The Mission ED thought that it was WONDERFUL that Ron had "causatively discarded the body," and spoke happily - her words - of "doing OT 15, learning to discard the body [like Ron did], and going [after killing the body] to be with Ron."

If anyone out there has a copy of this stored away somewhere in his garage, please dig it out and put it on the Net.

From this, and other reactions, it was obvious that a portion of the Scientology membership - circa 1986 - had the potential to be happy suicide cultists.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
This would most likely be allowed to happen ONLY when victim had been bled dry by the cult. Heaven forbid that the cult would let someone attain a dropped-body state whilst still having money left in the bank.

And than you get Rex Fowler, bled dry
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
"..........it was obvious that a portion of the Scientology membership - circa 1986 - had the potential to be happy suicide cultists."
:iagree:
Becoming an OT was one of my primary goals as a scientologist and I feel it is safe to say for most scientologists at that time. And per DM's words, it WAS necessary to discard the body to achieve this goal:

At this level of OT the body is nothing more than an impediment and an emcumbrance to any further gain as an OT."


That said, there was something about this whole event (when Hubbard died) that didn't seem right with me at that time. It didn't feel to me that we were being told the truth about the circumstances of Hubbard's death. I didn't express this feeling to anyone else at that time as I figured that would get me sent to Ethics for a "handling". And I knew that there was nothing that could be said to me that would handle what I felt.
 
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