Scientology - This Lifetime because...?

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
LRH died before reaching his goals for the planet.

CBR took over after him, developed additional tech, and gave those who were disaffected yet still reaching a place to go.

Then CBR too died. Now others have taken over after him.

So no, it is taking more than one lifetime, whether
you think those are worthy goals or not.

Helena

Thanks, Helena.

I understand what you wrote in the first three lines quoted above, and appreciate the time you spent to respond. I'm not quite up to speed as regards the fourth line, however.

You've hit upon, perhaps, the only thing everyone associated with/near Co$ both past and present agree upon - yes, it appears to be taking quite a bit of time to, for example, 'clear' the planet. However, I don't recall writing anything that would indicate I thought it should take less (or more) time -- only that I remain curious as to the existence of a target date (for lack of better phrase) within which to accomplish goals/aims as stated by Co$.

Further, if I've left the impression that I find all of the stated goals/aims of Co$ to be unworthy, it's easily corrected -- world peace, for example, is a reality I'd very much like to see in my lifetime and it might sound odd as a stated aim of a former soldier, but it remains true nonetheless. Like so many others, I do not believe harmful practices and abusive policies imposed against any group of people to further the aim of world peace has any merit whatsoever - and Co$ is, without question in my mind, assuredly culpable of such conduct/behavior.

Most simply put - if hubbard wrote/directed that certain goals/aims were to be achieved and he did not write/state that the aims/goals were to be achieved by "x" date, I'd like to read/listen/view such info for myself. That's all. :)

JB.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
When I was running The Way to Happiness Foundation it was VITAL that we blast out the booklet as far and as fast as possible. After all, in his "advices" for TWTH LRH stated that "like a gentle oil spread across the raging seas, the calm will ripple outward and outward". Therefore, we had to calm the seas NOW, so the tech could go in THEN. We were making time for the orgs so they could get ethics "in" in this sector of the universe and when that was done, it was time to follow Ron to Target 2.

I figured out that perhaps as many as a billion copies of Mao's Little Red Book had been passed out, so I figured the ultimate EP of the whole campaign would be for TWTH to be the most widely distributed book in history. I used to commingle my own fantasy with one of LRH's - the one He told of the first hardcover copy of DMSMH coming off the press right after the last copy of a Psych textbook. My fantasy was that I would be standing at the end of the press and watch the last Little Red Book pass by, closely followed by the first copy of TWTH. Of course, I would send it to Ron as a memento.

That kept me going for a long, long time and I hung up the spurs after we got over 50 million copies out.

I thought it had been a good start to the effort.

Thanks, ThisIsNotOkay - and wow - that's a lot of TWTH booklets! I think I would have probably had the same thought as you about the disseminating TWTH until it surpassed all other publications - that seems a logical conclusion to arrive at given your position at the time. Your fantasy is kind and speaks to your character -- I'm fairly certain that had I been tasked with your job trying to get all of those booklets distributed without delay, day after day, my fantasy would have involved me drowning in a sea of paper screaming for help, or 'innocently' playing with matches to burn the booklets that just kept reproducing despite the fires.

JB.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Funny.... If you ever read "wog" metaphysical stuff about positive visualization, etc. they usually emphasize that one should NOT imagine a goal as coming about in the future. Instead you visualize those gold ingots or whatever as being in your possession RIGHT NOW.

Likewise, if i recall, LRH, perhaps in the PDC tapes, says the same thing. I think he even picks apart the common "Every day in every way, i am getting better and better" because it puts stuff on a future track which supposedly does not work as well as postulating the results as already having happened in the now.

Thanks, Loohan.

It does appear from what's available to read/review that putting things off was a decided no-no with hubbard, but it's maddeningly obvious his own concept of time was fuzzy - or, more accurately, downright shady. Was this intentional? Apparently so, for both past and present time.

Still, he creates a system of belief which prides itself on facts/science/data/precision but doesn't provide the sequence of events to effect the stated aims/goals beyond...hurry up?

JB.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
The goals of Scientology I am referring to is "a world without war, crime, and insanity."

The pioneering spirit was certainly present. I am talking about FCDC in the early 1970s.

This was during the Cold War and we never thought we would Scientology behind the Iron Curtain in our lifetime.

If I recall correctly we thought the Muslim world would be easy to convert to Scientology.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Well imagine that! Farkenfucker and his minions are infiltrating the scilon inner circle already (hm, several years now), could this be the wonderful meldings? Wee Davey should be watching his wee puckered bung, they may be poor-ish, but that guy holding the door to celeb center? (so sorry can't find the pic atm) He gonna eat your butt!

Seriously though, the old wind-bag Hubbard, racist, drunken, abusive, looney piece of crap that he was, didn't give anyone but nice, dumb, rich people much credence . He knew he'd need an army, he thought he could find it in Africa, or Mexico, or stupid whiteez dick-suckers, pretty much anywhere other than NA since his scam was drying up~ under the rule of David Miscavige , lo, David did it, Hubbard would be proud (levels depending on dividends), it becomes obvious to me~ in spades. (for thos not getting the pun thar, its from a very old movie, victim had to dig his own grave, a sad thing.) :p <<<(could be bullshitting)
 
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Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
The goals this lifetime - is to get every member and staff's last dime and get them in debt so that the Co$ gets Billions of dollars so David Miscavige can live his lavish lifestyle and harass, attack and sue with the best attorney's money can buy - any "bitter defrocked apostates" who try to take his "job" away from him. To enslave members to work for free and defend the cult at all costs.

It was the same when Hubbard was alive.

You won't find these goals posted by the Church of scientology or David Miscavige - but just LOOK at the results of Scientology. Total Failure! Idle Morgues sitting Idle. Bankrupt parishoner's. FAIL!!

For instance - the VM brand spanking new van's sit vacant in the Idel Morgue parking lots - nice sign though - give the illusion that there is a volunteer minister front group. There has never been a VM group in the 4 cities I did Scientology - FAIL!

CCHR - asking for dono's constantly claiming they are doing something about the drugging - drugging is at an all time high in the entire world. They have done nothing but collect money and in exchange - sell you another illusion. FAIL!

On and on with all of the front groups. Narcanon has blood dripping from their lying hands - 3 dead in Oklahoma last year - Canada shut down.. FAIL
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
The goals this lifetime - is to get every member and staff's last dime and get them in debt so that the Co$ gets Billions of dollars so David Miscavige can live his lavish lifestyle and harass, attack and sue with the best attorney's money can buy - any "bitter defrocked apostates" who try to take his "job" away from him. To enslave members to work for free and defend the cult at all costs.

It was the same when Hubbard was alive.

You won't find these goals posted by the Church of scientology or David Miscavige - but just LOOK at the results of Scientology. Total Failure! Idle Morgues sitting Idle. Bankrupt parishoner's. FAIL!!

For instance - the VM brand spanking new van's sit vacant in the Idel Morgue parking lots - nice sign though - give the illusion that there is a volunteer minister front group. There has never been a VM group in the 4 cities I did Scientology - FAIL!

CCHR - asking for dono's constantly claiming they are doing something about the drugging - drugging is at an all time high in the entire world. They have done nothing but collect money and in exchange - sell you another illusion. FAIL!

On and on with all of the front groups. Narcanon has blood dripping from their lying hands - 3 dead in Oklahoma last year - Canada shut down.. FAIL

QFT. :clap:
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Agreed - that 'keep scientologists working' strategy/tactic is a particularly insidious one and I don't believe anyone who learns of it would find it beneficial for anyone but upper management - more specifically, hubbard and/or miscavige. How can anyone take a moment to think for themselves - or about themselves and their own circumstances - when rushing about doing-doing-doing.

It's just that I thought there must be something somewhere that gave guidance about when a particular goal was to be met/achieved. Even, perhaps, wrapped around another policy -- something like, 'we have to do x before we can begin to tackle y'. Haven't found anything yet - but I'm still looking and do appreciate everyone's help.

JB.

There is something about all orgs need to be a certain size before new OT levels are released.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
There is something about all orgs need to be a certain size before new OT levels are released.

Thanks, Guanoloco.

Yes, that's certainly confirmed by many posts here (and on other sites) but along with it there's discussion/opinion about whether the "new OT levels" exist in the first place*. I do wonder if that is how a current Co$ member thinks, though. That is, the person goes along with the near-constant push for Ideal Orgs (replaced by the prior standard for St. Hill-size orgs) because it's in order to have additional "tech" available.

[*I'm NOT wading into that discussion because it's volatile and one incorrectly posted word runs the risk of offending someone's fervent belief(s). Brave, yes, at times; reckless, no, not often. :giveup:]

JB.
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
LRH died before reaching his goals for the planet.

CBR took over after him, developed additional tech, and gave those who were disaffected yet still reaching a place to go.

Then CBR too died. Now others have taken over after him.

So no, it is taking more than one lifetime, whether you think those are worthy goals or not.

Helena

Thanks, Helena.

I understand what you wrote in the first three lines quoted above, and appreciate the time you spent to respond. I'm not quite up to speed as regards the fourth line, however.

You've hit upon, perhaps, the only thing everyone associated with/near Co$ both past and present agree upon - yes, it appears to be taking quite a bit of time to, for example, 'clear' the planet. However, I don't recall writing anything that would indicate I thought it should take less (or more) time -- only that I remain curious as to the existence of a target date (for lack of better phrase) within which to accomplish goals/aims as stated by Co$.

Further, if I've left the impression that I find all of the stated goals/aims of Co$ to be unworthy, it's easily corrected -- world peace, for example, is a reality I'd very much like to see in my lifetime and it might sound odd as a stated aim of a former soldier, but it remains true nonetheless. Like so many others, I do not believe harmful practices and abusive policies imposed against any group of people to further the aim of world peace has any merit whatsoever - and Co$ is, without question in my mind, assuredly culpable of such conduct/behavior.

Most simply put - if hubbard wrote/directed that certain goals/aims were to be achieved and he did not write/state that the aims/goals were to be achieved by "x" date, I'd like to read/listen/view such info for myself. That's all. :)

JB.

JB, I don't know about the existance of any target date, or whether or not LRH thought the job would be done within his lifetime or by any other date. I don't even know if any particular person reading this wants those goals to occur or not. All I know is that he died before the job was complete but that there are others taking up the burden. Perhaps someday we will have a world without war, insanity, or crime.

Helena
 

Loohan

Am I Mettaya?
For instance - the VM brand spanking new van's sit vacant in the Idel Morgue parking lots - nice sign though - give the illusion that there is a volunteer minister front group. There has never been a VM group in the 4 cities I did Scientology - FAIL!

I was active in Austin for 8 years, 6 of which on staff, but don't recall ever seeing any Volunteer Ministers about.
There was a VM training course. I remember once an unfortunate little girl about 12 years old, daughter of a scio, was doing that checksheet (probly with her arm somewhat twisted) and i was in some way involved in trying to get permission from an old folk's home for her to go there and do an assist on an elderly inmate. Don't recall how that turned out.
LRH was always forcing people into cringey situations with the public.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Thanks, Guanoloco.

Yes, that's certainly confirmed by many posts here (and on other sites) but along with it there's discussion/opinion about whether the "new OT levels" exist in the first place*. I do wonder if that is how a current Co$ member thinks, though. That is, the person goes along with the near-constant push for Ideal Orgs (replaced by the prior standard for St. Hill-size orgs) because it's in order to have additional "tech" available.

[*I'm NOT wading into that discussion because it's volatile and one incorrectly posted word runs the risk of offending someone's fervent belief(s). Brave, yes, at times; reckless, no, not often. :giveup:]

JB.

Absolutely that's a carrot for the members, so is the Universe Corp for staff.
 
..

Part of the answer lies in L Ron Hubbard's "Hill 10" milieu control technique. A "Hill 10" is an urgent situation that needs to be fixed now, now now. For those on staff, there are constant "Hill 10s" and, for the public, an endless stream of urgent situations which must be addressed immediately. This deliberate tactic results in a feeling of always being in a rush which, in combination with the other control techniques, is designed to prevent a person from sitting back and taking a long, hard look at what is really going on and measuring the results of what's actually been achieved. Of course, nothing has been achieved and the only thing going on is the "clearing" of "bank" accounts. Even when a person reaches the imaginary state of Clear, they enter the "Non-Interference Zone" where the rush becomes moving onto OTIII before their chance at eternity becomes corrupted.

The urgency aspect of milieu control was implemented by L Ron Hubbard gradiently and can be traced back to some of his early writings, particularly his dire warnings of an impending nuclear holocaust. " . . . we have five years left, at best . . . " etc etc. And then there's . . .



. . . and there's plenty more similar quotes peppered throughout Scientology Scripture.

As Margery Wakefield puts it " . . . In Scientology, the prevailing emotion is a sense of urgency and of fear. Scientologists at work do not walk, they run. Everything is deadly serious and urgent. The world is at stake. Each small victory has added significance. Scientology is a group at war, and this mentality lends fervor, enthusiasm and a sense of danger to each activity . . . "

I can't find any specific threads in relation to your specific question, but there is this one where people are taking the piss, which is fun but not very helpful in answering your quesiton. The on-board search function isn't that wonderful, you might be best to search from Google for words/phrases which match your query and use the "site" parameter to loop back onto ESMB.

the hill 10 is a variant of the old lion tamer's trick of having the big cats perch on stands which can only accomodate three of their four paws
 
from what i've read of the communal communalist communistic commie soviet style berthing and dining arrangements the sea org head of hostelry should be comrade hill10
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I scanned this thread really super quickly so maybe I missed it. I believe it was in the intro to "Fundamentals of Thought" book which might have a different name now..

But it (Lconman) talked about Scientology being mankinds last call to reason, and the concept that it was a race between a nuclear war or some environmental/biological disaster.
So there was always a push to "turn the tide" and 'save the day' in fact 'eternity'.

I also believe the quote you might be looking for would have been in "scientology 0-8" "the book of basics" where-in I believe the Aims of Scientology were published.

I don't have the materials/books anymore and I really am not keen on even finding them to read as I am not in the mood to re-visit the hopes and aspirations and the outright betrayal of those by the falsely stated lies that the " hope of man could be realized and that the "map and route out" had been found and all that was left was to follow it, promote it and VOILA, the snake oil would cure all ON THIS PLANET AND THIS SECTOR

to follow scientology is guaranteed to meet sooner or later with betrayal.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
I scanned this thread really super quickly so maybe I missed it. I believe it was in the intro to "Fundamentals of Thought" book which might have a different name now..

But it (Lconman) talked about Scientology being mankinds last call to reason, and the concept that it was a race between a nuclear war or some environmental/biological disaster.
So there was always a push to "turn the tide" and 'save the day' in fact 'eternity'.

I also believe the quote you might be looking for would have been in "scientology 0-8" "the book of basics" where-in I believe the Aims of Scientology were published.

I don't have the materials/books anymore and I really am not keen on even finding them to read as I am not in the mood to re-visit the hopes and aspirations and the outright betrayal of those by the falsely stated lies that the " hope of man could be realized and that the "map and route out" had been found and all that was left was to follow it, promote it and VOILA, the snake oil would cure all ON THIS PLANET AND THIS SECTOR

to follow scientology is guaranteed to meet sooner or later with betrayal.

Thanks, DChoice! Much appreciated :yes:.

I'm still digging around and have seen what you've kindly described above - in a few places, actually - but aside from the vague end-of-the-world pronouncements implied to be near-certainties, I haven't found anything that says why this lifetime is the one for all the work to be done and not, say, another lifetime.

JB.
 

Gib

Crusader
Absolutely that's a carrot for the members, so is the Universe Corp for staff.

When I was on staff, and gung ho, that worked for me to work my butt off.

Now I LOL. What a fool I was, but that's ok, I had some fun, sort of.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks, DChoice! Much appreciated :yes:.

I'm still digging around and have seen what you've kindly described above - in a few places, actually - but aside from the vague end-of-the-world pronouncements implied to be near-certainties, I haven't found anything that says why this lifetime is the one for all the work to be done and not, say, another lifetime.

JB.

Flunk JB, re-read post #7 by Infinite and word clear and clay demo "here and now" and then tell me how "here and NOW" is not this lifetime :biggrin::dieslaughing:
 

Gib

Crusader
Thanks, DChoice! Much appreciated :yes:.

I'm still digging around and have seen what you've kindly described above - in a few places, actually - but aside from the vague end-of-the-world pronouncements implied to be near-certainties, I haven't found anything that says why this lifetime is the one for all the work to be done and not, say, another lifetime.

JB.

hubbard actually says clearing the planet would be a long, long cycle, meaning many lifetimes. I can't remember where I heard it. So when I finally realized that, it actually allowed me to fend off the sea org recruiters or staff recuiters from when I was public. I'd just say, I ain't interested in being on staff, maybe next life time. Plus I'd say, you need paying public and I'm one of those. So hubbard helped me for once. LOL
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Flunk JB, re-read post #7 by Infinite and word clear and clay demo "here and now" and then tell me how "here and NOW" is not this lifetime :biggrin::dieslaughing:

Dear DChoice,

Initial response to your post: :hysterical::hysterical:.
Secondary response: :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Thank you. :biggrin:

With all due respect...

1. Used Silly-Putty instead of modeling clay; (<---how 'out-tech' am I?)
2. Reread post #7 out loud for my word clearer;(<---aka housemate)
3. Debated the words "here" and "now" with word clearer; (<----aka housemate who used fly swatter twice. Ouchie x 2.)
4. Agreed "here" was flexible since hubbard did flit about quite often; (<----dodging subpoenas, responsibilities, consequences...)
5. Agreed "now" was flexible since hubbard used that word at multiple times; (<----took another fly swatter swat for that, btw.)
6. Decided the word "and" was unisex; (<---- don't ask. housemate's a word-nerd.)

7. Resolved: The literal meaning of the commonplace phrase "here and now" cannot have been what hubbard intended - both 'here' and 'now' changed often enough from the 50's to '86 while he used that phrase -- repeating his core messages/'teachings' often enough in different locales and at different times. Thus, it seems more likely hubbard meant it in an everyday sense.

So?

The problem is, when asked, "Which here? Which now?" there doesn't appear to be an answer to either question that a scientologist can readily point to with confidence.

The aims/goals of scientology are written all over the place -- where's the material that states when the aims/goals have to happen? Why this lifetime and not another? :confused2:

JB.
 
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