Scientology vs. Psychiatry

[FlunkYou]

What is the general consensus on psych drug related issues such as the recent murder/suicide on the military base in TX?

My reason for asking is that every time there's a "mass" killing in the news, all the scners start pushing the "psych drugs are dangerous" speech. They seem to think this is the sole reason these people go crazy. Obviously, if one were so inclined, they could refute with the sad Perkins story, but what the fuck makes them think they're the authority on mental issues?

I believe killers like Ted Bundy and Jeff Dahmer were drunks with no real links to psych drugs, but it seems like the new breed of killers are on some sort of medication.

Help a brother understand.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

If I had a choice of being in a crowded room with a gunman who is on anti-depressants, or being stuck in a crowded room with a gunman who thinks there are imaginary disembodied space aliens running around in his head, I think it's pretty obvious which one I'd choose.

 

[programmer_guy]

I knew one kid (who is now 40 years old) who developed violent reactions (in late teens) toward people in common daily occurrences. In his late teens he stopped going to school, got involved in street drugs, and also took to living on the streets.

Eventually he was diagnosed as having schizophrenia, lives in a group home, and is on psych drugs to suppress his symptoms.
I think the psych drugs make him behave a bit odd (like weird body positions & movement & dead pan face).

At least now he gets 3 square meals per day, no street drugs, has some daily work discipline, & isn't violent.

I mean, really, what else could anyone do with him?

 

[PTS]

There are some things best left to scientists. Physicians, researchers, and the people who support them have far greater insight than we will ever have. And certainly greater insight than brainwashed culties or punters like me jabbering on a blog will ever enjoy.

The misinformation that CCHR dispenses is a real problem, especially online. It looks so authoritative and so professional but when you do some fact-checking it turns out to be just more crap designed to push the cult's agenda. I do not know how to address that either beyond educating society on how to achieve good mental health, and ensuring the resources are in place for anyone who needs them when they have lost good mental health.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

To me, the main difference between Scientology and psychiatry is that the mark of Scientology is that it tries to take away your personality and the mark of psychiatry is that it tries to recover it.

But psychiatry is very broad in its application--so some of it misses the mark.

But Scientology is very precise in its application---so it usually hits the mark.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

If I had a choice of being in a crowded room with a gunman who is on anti-depressants, or being stuck in a crowded room with a gunman who thinks there are imaginary disembodied space aliens running around in his head, I think it's pretty obvious which one I'd choose.

The problem is the Scientology gunmen (or ethics officer) who thinks there are space aliens running around in his head thinks they are real---not imaginary!

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Helena Handbasket]

Psychiatry is not all bad. But they're not all good, either. In my last lifetime I had a worst-case experience with them. Yes, it was that bad.

Helena

 

[Miss Ellie]

I take low dose anti depressants and do great. It is a chemistry thing that tends to run in the family. I am much better on than off. I raised four teenagers with out the drugs.... should of have had them then.

I am not crazy just smoother with them. If I needed more I would take them. No easy one size fits all on this.

I ride with a bunch of vets with PTSD and trust me they take what they need. They know what might happen if they do not keep in check.

If you want more info message me.

 

[Rene Descartes]

Asking an average person in Scientology to comment on how Psychiatrists should or should not be treating their patients is on par with asking an average everyday homemaker to comment of what kind of rocket ships NASA should and should not be using.

Rd00

 

[Udarnik]

What is the general consensus on psych drug related issues such as the recent murder/suicide on the military base in TX?

My reason for asking is that every time there's a "mass" killing in the news, all the scners start pushing the "psych drugs are dangerous" speech. They seem to think this is the sole reason these people go crazy. Obviously, if one were so inclined, they could refute with the sad Perkins story, but what the fuck makes them think they're the authority on mental issues?

I believe killers like Ted Bundy and Jeff Dahmer were drunks with no real links to psych drugs, but it seems like the new breed of killers are on some sort of medication.

Help a brother understand.

There's a lot to unpack there. Let's just start with the killers.

These people are unhinged to begin with. A certain percentage of them went on sprees before modern psychiatry (Lizzie Borden took an axe...). The question is: if properly treated, do fewer of them go on killing sprees than otherwise? The evidence suggests yes, but in the real world things are muddied by compliance. Are these killers being properly treated, is the dose of their drugs optimized, and are they taking them on a regular basis? The answer to all three questions is often "no", so one really can't make a case one way or another based on just the ones who snap in public.

We recognize mental illness better now, so the new breed of killer almost always have some sort of mental health history, but our system of delivery and funding for healthcare, especially mental healthcare, leaves many with spotty coverage. This is even more dangerous, in some ways, than no coverage at all, because at the beginning of treatment, before the dose is optimized, mood and other mental traits can swing wildly. This is why there is a high risk of suicide in SSRI / SNRI patients at the beginning of treatment. Someone who is on and off the meds in a yo-yo fashion is going to go through this multiple times a year, perhaps multiple times a month. They are at much higher risk of snapping.

 

[MathScience]

There is another factor that comes into play, too, Udarnik. The affected often stop taking their medications because, A) they just don't want to be bothered, and B) the side effects that accompany any and all drugs.

A long time ago, 1990, I was treated for headaches at the Diamond Headache Clinic in Chicago. Though I don't suffer from any form of depression, I was prescribed Prozac. Turns out that Dr. Seymour Diamond, who was also the head of the pharmacology department at the University of Chicago, had discovered that Prozac could be used as a very effective pain reliever in certain cases.

I hated the side effects from the drug (the biggest one - you have no sex life ), and eventually stopped taking it because of them. I did think there was a dark side to that drug, but it did a lot for me in terms of the headache.

 

[FascinatedNeverIn]

Psychiatry is not all bad. But they're not all good, either. In my last lifetime I had a worst-case experience with them. Yes, it was that bad.

Helena

In your what?

 

[FlunkYou]

There's a lot to unpack there. Let's just start with the killers.

These people are unhinged to begin with. A certain percentage of them went on sprees before modern psychiatry (Lizzie Borden took an axe...). The question is: if properly treated, do fewer of them go on killing sprees than otherwise? The evidence suggests yes, but in the real world things are muddied by compliance. Are these killers being properly treated, is the dose of their drugs optimized, and are they taking them on a regular basis? The answer to all three questions is often "no", so one really can't make a case one way or another based on just the ones who snap in public.

We recognize mental illness better now, so the new breed of killer almost always have some sort of mental health history, but our system of delivery and funding for healthcare, especially mental healthcare, leaves many with spotty coverage. This is even more dangerous, in some ways, than no coverage at all, because at the beginning of treatment, before the dose is optimized, mood and other mental traits can swing wildly. This is why there is a high risk of suicide in SSRI / SNRI patients at the beginning of treatment. Someone who is on and off the meds in a yo-yo fashion is going to go through this multiple times a year, perhaps multiple times a month. They are at much higher risk of snapping.

I know there's no one size fits all. I've heard the different stories - from too many doctors prescribing too many drugs (i.e. Heath Ledger) to the patient self medicating.

It's such a double edged sword because if a crazy killer wasn't on meds, of course society would say "he should have been". I don't get how these scientologist think NO body should be medicated EVER. Perhaps they should be required to care for a schizo for a few months and try their locationals, touch assists and vitamins to see how far THEY get.?

It really rubs me the wrong way when they get on their soapboxes and start spouting off about things they know nothing about. Sure it's not a perfect system with no real discernible test to prove actual "disorders", but nether are there any tests to prove "engrams".

 

[Lone Star]

I know there's no one size fits all. I've heard the different stories - from too many doctors prescribing too many drugs (i.e. Heath Ledger) to the patient self medicating.

It's such a double edged sword because if a crazy killer wasn't on meds, of course society would say "he should have been". I don't get how these scientologist think NO body should be medicated EVER. Perhaps they should be required to care for a schizo for a few months and try their locationals, touch assists and vitamins to see how far THEY get.?

It really rubs me the wrong way when they get on their soapboxes and start spouting off about things they know nothing about. Sure it's not a perfect system with no real discernible test to prove actual "disorders", but nether are there any tests to prove "engrams".

They sure didn't help Lisa McPherson. If she had stayed in that real hospital she would probably be alive today.

 

[Churchill]

One is based upon Science

The other is based on Money.

 

[Lone Star]

There are some things best left to scientists. Physicians, researchers, and the people who support them have far greater insight than we will ever have. And certainly greater insight than brainwashed culties or punters like me jabbering on a blog will ever enjoy.

The misinformation that CCHR dispenses is a real problem, especially online. It looks so authoritative and so professional but when you do some fact-checking it turns out to be just more crap designed to push the cult's agenda. I do not know how to address that either beyond educating society on how to achieve good mental health, and ensuring the resources are in place for anyone who needs them when they have lost good mental health.

Don't even get me started on CCHR. Too late....I'm started.

Several years ago Austin still didn't have a psych unit in the main hospital. The one that takes indigents. So the cops had a real problem whenever they had to pick up someone who was "mental". They could only take them to jail and try to isolate them from the rest and take care of them the best they could, only later to be released.

So APD and the Sheriff's Dept began lobbying to have Brackenridge Hospital get the money to set up a psych unit. Of course CCHR-Texas started frothing at the mouth and scaring people that this would essentialy give the psychs enormous police powers, and inevitably lead to "point and shoot" laws where a psych can point at you and say, "He's crazy....commit him."

All bullshit of course. Thankfully this was one battle that CCHR lost and now the police have a viable place to take arrestees who need treatment instead of a cell.

 

[Intentionally Blank]

We have children with mental health issues. One must take medication to avoid ending up on a locked ward. S/he does .... ok.... with a legal guardian overseeing care. Others have not responded well to medication and have used different forms of counseling or therapy with differing results. Only one was exposed to scn - that was the oldest who is now on several psychiatric meds and under the care of a guardian. Mr/s Blanky is disconnected from this one of our children. I have to have contact on the sly. After our experience with the oldest I refused to allow the others to be used as cult pawns.

Blanky

 

[FlunkYou]

I myself take a medication...but this is after spending six figures in the cult for my issue that only got worse. The medication was a life saver for me. I've been on it for over 3 years now and have worked through the minor side effect I encountered. I honestly can't say that I'm 100%, but I'm waaaaaaay better off now than I've been in over a decade.

My "issue" allowed me to pursue other avenues I wouldn't have otherwise. I'm grateful for that, and I recognize the fact that I needed to go down my own path for myself.

Udarnik makes a great point in that people don't stay on their meds and yo-yo which can really screw up the head. I've done it.

It's hard to talk to a scner about meds without disclosing your own "knowingness" and experience. You want to push it back in their faces the fact that LRH had "psych" meds in his system when he "causatively discarded his body".

 

[Intentionally Blank]

People also yo yo on their meds, and not just psych meds, when they start to feel better - forgetting it's often only because of the meds that they do. I suppose that true of diet, exercise, and all manner of lifestyle choices.

Mr/s Blanky insists that scn was a lifesaver and made it possible to get off meds. Although s/he readily attests that being on meds made it possible to stay focused and get stuff done in a way that decades of scn has not seemed to be able to accomplish since. Of course, it's not the tek, that's pure wholesome goodness. S/he is just not applying it properly

Blanky

 

[FlunkYou]

People also yo yo on their meds, and not just psych meds, when they start to feel better - forgetting it's often only because of the meds that they do. I suppose that true of diet, exercise, and all manner of lifestyle choices.

Mr/s Blanky insists that scn was a lifesaver and made it possible to get off meds. Although s/he readily attests that being on meds made it possible to stay focused and get stuff done in a way that decades of scn has not seemed to be able to accomplish since. Of course, it's not the tek, that's pure wholesome goodness. S/he is just not applying it properly

Blanky

I truly admire your ability to maintain a relationship with someone who is in the cult. I can only imagine the conversations between someone who "thinks" they know vs. someone who has the half of the story such as yourself.

You're a brave person to be commended for your ability to grant your other half his/her lifestyle and make it work. My hat is off to you.