Scientology: Why You Joined, Why You Left -- Correlation?

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
I'm indebted to every ESMB member - past & present - who've graciously shared their individual experiences while involved with Co$ and afterwards.
Each of the posted narratives educate me, a not particularly swift 'never-in', about the impact scientology-as-practiced has upon people, their lives, and the lives of their families.

From what I've read...

Some here originally became members of Co$ to help solve the world's problems.
Some became members of Co$ to obtain increased abilities and/or talents.
Some were attracted by the sci-fi aspects of Co$ and/or Hubbard's writing.
Some became members initially because another person sparked/piqued their interest in Co$.

What I wonder is, excluding 2nd and 3rd generation Co$ members because being 'born-in' doesn't really imply freedom of choice in the matter, does a correlation exist between the reason(s) a person joined Co$ and the reason(s) that same person left? If so, what is the correlation?
That is, if a person originally joined Co$ for altruistic reasons, was it the failure of Co$ to achieve/actualize those same altruistic goals that prompted a person to leave Co$?
Or does the original reason(s) for joining have nothing at all to do with leaving? (<---Johnny joined to obtain 'super-powers' but left because he read something on the internet about hubbard's fake diploma.)

After a romantic relationship ends, it's not at all unusual to discover that the thing that most attracted you to the person was, in the end, the very thing that drove you away. Of course, there isn't always a correlation between initial attraction and ending the relationship, but it's worth taking a look to see how a relationship began and ended -- if only to learn what to do/not do in a future relationship. Such review is best done with ice cream, btw. Or wine. But not both.

And, yes, the cruel & abusive policies as employed/enforced by Co$ certainly do account for many people's departure, so an alternate way to pose my question is: Does a correlation exist between the original reason(s) a person joined and the particular type of policy that ended membership? (Ex.: Johnny joined Co$ to help solve the world's problems but left because he was expected to disconnect from close friends who, in his own mind, were not 'PTS'. He joined to help bad people become good but Co$ misidentified good people as bad and, in so doing, failed to achieve the purported goal that originally attracted Johnny.)

If we could determine, generally speaking, that: people who joined Co$ for X & Y reasons often left because of Z reason; or, people who joined for B reason usually left because of X, Y, or Z reason; then I think we might learn how to more effectively grasp the attention of the people still involved with Co$.

tl;dr version: Did what got you into Co$ play any part in getting you out? How so?

JB
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
<snip>If we could determine, generally speaking, that: people who joined Co$ for X & Y reasons often left because of Z reason; or, people who joined for B reason usually left because of X, Y, or Z reason; then I think we might learn how to more effectively grasp the attention of the people still involved with Co$.

I got involved simply because I had an older half-brother whom I greatly loved, admired and respected who'd joined the cult and recommended that I do likewise.

The reason I left was that I had become separated from my wife (we were working at different orgs, don't ask), and getting someone to replace me so that I could join her at SH and all that that entailed became too tiresome. Disillusionment had set in as a result of poor staff pay and conditions anyway, and the transfer situation was effectively the straw that broke the camel's back and we both decided we'd had enough.

The fact that while I was helping Ron clear the planet the 'Stones were playing for free in the park half a mile down the road and Pink Floyd had issued 'Dark Side of the Moon' which Elron had decreed we were not permitted to listen to only added to my desire to get the fuck out of there. Perhaps that last sentence illustrates how my priorities had changed from the ones I had as a starry-eyed gung-ho 'tech zealot' in the beginning, to the ones I had just before I left!

I've made some terrible decisions in my life. That was one of my better ones.
 
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I got in because I was at a friends house when I was in college, and was listening in on a "coffee shop" session - the person (my future FSM) was running ARC Straightwire ( a recall process aimed at improving memory) off the cans in her living room and I was listening in and running the commands in my head and went release ( had a big win) so I asked what it was about and was in for the next 40+ years.

I was declared while still mainlining koolaid (on ot 7) and after my wife tiring of me looking over her shoulder while she read stuff on line, I reluctantly started going on line myself and became DISILLUSIONED with the disparity between what Hubbard wrote and what did in life, and his utter lack of ethical behavior as a author ( not bothering to fact check books like All About Radiation for example ), and the bogus quackery of the Purif when he had the means to hire medical researchers and put together a really workable drug treatment program.

The more I read on line the more I realized how much I had been betrayed and the more I wanted nothing to do with it. I finally decided to read madman or messiah, bare faced messiah, sell them a piece of blue sky, blown for good, counterfeit dreams, inside scientology, Jenna's book, and Wright's book ( also his on Al Qaeda) which really put the nail in the coffin. Recently I was talking to a freezoner who thinks all of that is written about LRH is entheta. I was all - Oh well, whatever, to myself.

Anyway, I hope that helps.

Mimsey
 
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Techless

Patron Meritorious
I'd have to say that all the reasons for joining that I had had, are directly correlated to the reasons for leaving. The points you mentioned were valid for me, and hence finding them not anywhere in the scn landscape after much searching: I said (in my mind) "screw this!, it's just a bad joke".

Obviously a bit more hoohaw was what played out, but I'm just so past it now I cannot reiterate it all.

So, to hopefully answer your question - yes, 'direct correlation'! Hope it helps, and mostly with those still in. I still have impossible time, figuring out just how/why someone can get so braindead. Yeah, I've done it, but always snapped out of...

TL
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
What got me in is what got me out. Interesting, because it's a play with "what turns it on, turns it off" and "the way out is the way through" and "it takes as long as it takes". When I realized Scientology was everything it stood against - Heavens to Murgatroyd, even! Exit! Stage left, even!
 
Edit: I went on staff to get the bridge at a discount, and I never really promoted it because I wanted to handle my case and become OT first, before I was going to go to save the world. I ran into issues when I was going OT because though I had been exterior a few times, I wasn't having the gains he, Hubbard, (and others) said I would have. This wait and see attitude, sadly, didn't stop me from giving scads of loot to the IAS. I also realized I was no longer the public the orgs wanted. Hubbard went after the gullible idealists but Miscavage went after the rich whales.

When I read some stuff Hubbard wrote in DMSMH when I started on my basics that was completely off the wall - I was no longer skimming shit after having done the Key to Life course - he wasn't joking (it was about how the nervous system developed from experiencing impacts - his theory the fingers have more nerves because they were constantly banging into stuff - see the chapter on the cell) - I stopped dead in my tracks trying to Grok WTF was this all about. It was so stupid, how could he write such idiocy?

So when the situation that would lead to my being declared went down, I let it ride - I no longer felt I had too much to lose. I was kind of Que cera, cera about it, though for a while I tried desperately to get back on lines. Then, like a fish in a boat realizing he ain't going back in the water, I stopped flopping around and started my life in a different direction, and curiosity set in and I wanted to find out what had happened to me. So I went on line, read and posted and eventually read the books mentioned in the earlier post.

Now that I have solved that, and put it behind me, my life is taking a new direction as I explore Robert Monroe and his OOB experiences - I read his 3 books and I just started listening to his CD's and doing the exercises they have and I'll post more when I see how that works. If it does what he says, and the cosmos is as he discusses, then I can really say that Scientology was but a necessary stepping stone on my spiritual journey to rediscover my self.

Mimsey

http://www.monroeinstitute.org/
 
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TheSpectator

Patron with Honors
I got in because I always had a religious/spiritual side to me (prior to Scientology I participated in Christianity in various forms). Also, it seemed to me that people are capable of magic-like abilities, so Clear and OT appealed to me.

Most all the long-term Scientologists I knew had altruistic motives; they were good people who wanted a better world for everyone. Unfortunately, we were all fooling ourselves that Scientology could create such a Utopia.

In all candor, what I was looking for something that's impossible to achieve. It was a juvenile dream and nothing more. There are no Clears or OTs, nor is there any superior way to live life through Scientology. The life we have is what we create by our hard work and diligent pursuit of realistic goals.

I left Scientology for 2 reasons: 1) Scientology and Dianetics don't work and, 2) As I matured I realized that most of my non-Scientologist friends were much happier in their lives, families, and work than I was at OT VII. I needed to adopt an adult attitude about life, not a immature, child-like dream.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Thanks for all of thus responses thus far -- and very well-articulated, too!

I'm trying to put an informal list together of the most popularly reported reasons - by category - that people join Co$...and, of course, the corresponding list of the most popularly reported reasons, by category, that people left Co$.

People join, people stay, and then (most) people leave.
The middle part --- why a person stays in Co$ is the subject of many other threads, books, films, etc. -- but it basically boils down to Co$ failed him/her.

General categories such as...

Altruism
Self-improvement
Spiritual ambition
Financial success
Social ambition
Intellectual stimulation
Rebelliousness

Those are simply draft titles, btw.

JB -- wishing everyone a Happy Father's Day. #DaddysGirl4Life :yes:
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
I went in because "I didn't Know":no:

I left because "I know":yes:

There ya go - the "know to mystery scale"..in reverse. LOLOL:wink2:
 

Sindy

Crusader
What got me in is what got me out. Interesting, because it's a play with "what turns it on, turns it off" and "the way out is the way through" and "it takes as long as it takes". When I realized Scientology was everything it stood against - Heavens to Murgatroyd, even! Exit! Stage left, even!

I like the way you think.
 

Lorna

Patron
I bought Dianetics out of curiosity and it seemed so right so I went to the local Org for more information and after that moment it seemed even better. I thought their courses and auditing would help me and make me a better person. And I thought with our knowledge we could in fact help everyone.
I'm now leaving because I found out about some nasty things the Church of Scientology has done and/or is involved in and I do not want to be a part of a group like this. Whether it works or not.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Of course I got in to help myself but I really had a bigger picture (as I think most of us did) about how we were making the world a better place.

Sure, there is a tendency to be more idealistic (takes a lot of youthful energy) when people are younger but I still have that same motivation (tempered by maturity) and being part of that which I deem to really be helping mankind is important to me. Once I realized that I was involved in a group that didn't care about mankind, ultimately, I had to get out.

Also, I was always rebellious and thought that Scientology was too. When it ended up being a continuous tightening screw of conformity, that pushed my rebellion button too.

Basically, Scientology sucks.
 

Sindy

Crusader
I bought Dianetics out of curiosity and it seemed so right so I went to the local Org for more information and after that moment it seemed even better. I thought their courses and auditing would help me and make me a better person. And I thought with our knowledge we could in fact help everyone.
I'm now leaving because I found out about some nasty things the Church of Scientology has done and/or is involved in and I do not want to be a part of a group like this. Whether it works or not.

Well, thank you very much for having integrity and nipping this in the bud quickly. Good for you.
 

pink amythest

New Member
My kid joined Sea Org in Clearwater Florida right after high school, she was recruited in Los Angeles. I don't think my kid had a full knowledge of what she was signing for, since her recruiters used deception and intimidation technique. Being trapped and cut off form family there my kid has no freedom or rights.
I'm not going to go into a full description of the nightmare of what she is going through, most of you are familiar with Sea Org.

I'm not in Scientology and I never belong to the cult. It's been a long time since I seen my kid, but I try to keep communication open and send her letters and photos of our family.

I call my kid a few times a months, I can't say want I'm really think about Sea Org because they monitoring phone calls and open my letters, my kid also can't be honest about anything, my kid will get in trouble for it. I guess the question I was asking myself for a while is why my kid is still there? Then I realized that every cult uses mind control, abuse, isolation, and manipulation to keep their members in line, the big issue of all is phobia that indoctrinated in people's minds. I'm trying to help my kid to think for themself and hopefully get out of Sea Org, but the process is very slow and difficult.


So anyone with helpful information please reply.
 
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strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I'm now leaving because I found out about some nasty things the Church of Scientology has done and/or is involved in and I do not want to be a part of a group like this. Whether it works or not.
Don't worry, it doesn't!
 

Sindy

Crusader
My daughter joined Sea Org in Clearwater Florida right after high school, she was recruited in Los Angeles. I don't think she had a full knowledge of what she was signing for, since her recruiters used deception and intimidation technique. Being trapped and cut off form her family there she has no freedom or rights.
I'm not going to go into a full description of the nightmare of what she is going through, most of you are familiar with Sea Org.

I'm not in Scientology and I never belong to the cult. My ex-husband{ who is not in Scientology} was involved with them couple of years ago and introduced all of my kids to Scientology, one of my kids found it interesting, the rest of them just left our local center and never went back. It's been a long time since I seen my daughter, but I try to keep communication open and send her letters and photos of our family.

I call her a few times a months, I can't say want I'm really think about Sea Org because they monitoring phone calls and open my letters to her, she also can't be honest about anything, she'll get in trouble for it. I guess the question I was asking myself for a while is why she is still there, when her parents are not scientologists? Then I realized that every cult use mind control, abuse, isolation, and manipulation to keep there members in line, the big issue of all is phobia that indoctrinated in people's mind. I'm trying to help my daughter to think for herself and hopefully get out of Sea Org, but the process is very slow and difficult.

So I'm just asking people out there if someone have some information that will assist me and my family with getting my daughter out of Sea Org.

Oh my goodness. I have a lump in my throat reading your account here. Argh, when will this cult be taken down for good.

As annoying as this may be, I would say keep reading threads here. I don't think there is one simple answer.

There are specific people, in LA, who would be good contacts to have however. Post a bit more so you gain access to send and accept private messages. This way, people who can help you can contact you.

One thing you don't want to do is give away too much information here that could identify you as you could get cut off from your daughter. This board is most definitely monitored.

One of the best things you can do is stay in contact and let her know under no uncertain terms that you are always there for her and that she always has a place to go. Even if you don't come right out and say those words, make sure she knows. In that way, the option of leaving is always a viable solution.
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
My kid joined Sea Org in Clearwater Florida right after high school, she was recruited in Los Angeles. I don't think my kid had a full knowledge of what she was signing for, since her recruiters used deception and intimidation technique. Being trapped and cut off form family there my kid has no freedom or rights.
I'm not going to go into a full description of the nightmare of what she is going through, most of you are familiar with Sea Org.

I'm not in Scientology and I never belong to the cult. It's been a long time since I seen my kid, but I try to keep communication open and send her letters and photos of our family.

I call her a few times a months, I can't say want I'm really think about Sea Org because they monitoring phone calls and open my letters to her, my kid also can't be honest about anything, my kid will get in trouble for it. I guess the question I was asking myself for a while is why my kid is still there? Then I realized that every cult uses mind control, abuse, isolation, and manipulation to keep their members in line, the big issue of all is phobia that indoctrinated in people's minds. I'm trying to help my kid to think for herself and hopefully get out of Sea Org, but the process is very slow and difficult.


So anyone with helpful information please reply.
Welcome Pink Amethyst! :flowers2::welcome:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Don't mean to be flippant but. . .

Why I joined: Pleasure.

Why I left: Pain

Hubbard talked incessantly about Pleasure/Pain in the beginning books so I assumed he knew what he was talking about. Hey, what does a kid in high school know? LOL. I didn't actually know at that point in my life that adults who wrote books could just lie.

Good one, Ron. Ya got me--for a little while always.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
I got in to pursue a dream of personal power and personal responsibility. I wanted to help the world, but I also wanted my own recovery of ability and power. I was already bright and aware and smart as hell, but I didn't have focus and concentration and serenity.

I joined staff to afford the bridge and then found I wasn't allowed to make progress on the bridge as staff. I helped people, through courses and in session, but got minimal help myself. I never felt that I should promote Scientology. I was finding parts of it valid and parts of it bullshit, but mostly enjoying the hell out of it.

I was fired (actually fired) and then recovered on amnesty after the mission holder's debacle. I paid for my bridge through Clear, then left staff to raise my family and paid through OT III.

I completed OT III and I felt it was enough. I felt done. I had continued long enough to make this major goal. I got enough out of it to be fine with my existence as a being. I worked for the church on a few projects after this, and from that outside view found it an incredibly dysfunctional mess. I also worked alongside the RPF and didn't buy into the volunteer aspect of it, or how wonderful this was that they got to work and then audit daily. I saw the black boiler suit group cowering in the parking structure at the manner, not allowed to talk and looking like prisoners.

Then I went to Flag and between the bullshit aura of Miscavige and the continued dysfunction I decided I was being stupid to pursue the unpursuable.

I read Ex-Scientology Kids .org and from that came here, and I realized how self-deceptive and intentionally unaware I had had to force myself to be to remain on staff and continue to try and get up a bridge that wasn't delivering what I was promised. Ever. Any gains were attainable through other means or already present.

I realized I had not actually helped a single person on this planet to be a better person or more able human being without also trapping them into the mess that was this church. I realized that all of that effort was like a hamster in a wheel, going no where with lots of motion. No actual product. I saw how destructive the church was. I made a decision that I was no longer a Scientologist. Best decision ever.

And I realized that I didn't have to fight a case, didn't have to have BT's counter-intending me, didn't need to be enturbulated or worry about statistics. I could do some actual good in the world and finally have a life that I enjoyed. With dental care and health insurance and time for my kids and grandkids and time to rest when I get tired.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
I got in to pursue a dream of personal power and personal responsibility. I wanted to help the world, but I also wanted my own recovery of ability and power. I was already bright and aware and smart as hell, but I didn't have focus and concentration and serenity.

I joined staff to afford the bridge and then found I wasn't allowed to make progress on the bridge as staff. I helped people, through courses and in session, but got minimal help myself. I never felt that I should promote Scientology. I was finding parts of it valid and parts of it bullshit, but mostly enjoying the hell out of it.

I was fired (actually fired) and then recovered on amnesty after the mission holder's debacle. I paid for my bridge through Clear, then left staff to raise my family and paid through OT III.

I completed OT III and I felt it was enough. I felt done. I had continued long enough to make this major goal. I got enough out of it to be fine with my existence as a being. I worked for the church on a few projects after this, and from that outside view found it an incredibly dysfunctional mess. I also worked alongside the RPF and didn't buy into the volunteer aspect of it, or how wonderful this was that they got to work and then audit daily. I saw the black boiler suit group cowering in the parking structure at the manner, not allowed to talk and looking like prisoners.

Then I went to Flag and between the bullshit aura of Miscavige and the continued dysfunction I decided I was being stupid to pursue the unpursuable.

I read Ex-Scientology Kids .org and from that came here, and I realized how self-deceptive and intentionally unaware I had had to force myself to be to remain on staff and continue to try and get up a bridge that wasn't delivering what I was promised. Ever. Any gains were attainable through other means or already present.

I realized I had not actually helped a single person on this planet to be a better person or more able human being without also trapping them into the mess that was this church. I realized that all of that effort was like a hamster in a wheel, going no where with lots of motion. No actual product. I saw how destructive the church was. I made a decision that I was no longer a Scientologist. Best decision ever.

And I realized that I didn't have to fight a case, didn't have to have BT's counter-intending me, didn't need to be enturbulated or worry about statistics. I could do some actual good in the world and finally have a life that I enjoyed. With dental care and health insurance and time for my kids and grandkids and time to rest when I get tired.

Wow!

Your experience doesn't fit my li'l theory at all --- but --- I'm elated that you're no longer involved with Co$ and safe and happy and healthy and thriving, too. :thumbsup:

Thank you, GreylensMan, for helping to educate us all. :clap:

JB
 
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