SEA ORG MEDICAL

beyond_horizons

Patron Meritorious
Does anybody consider I am not respecting the privacy of those individuals by doing that?

I am not sure if I should post the names.
Wow!

This is a gut wrenching thread. Thank you for sharing these stories Bea.

I believe that those who never got to tell their stories to the outside world are delighted by this. Your voice speaks for their passion with compassion!
.
 
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RamsBlue

Patron
I am giving the names of the people, even if they are innocent, because it would be great for someone to go into the orgs and find out if these medical conditions have been addressed, or if they are still neglected. I think that is best said with their names.

Does anybody consider I am not respecting the privacy of those individuals by doing that?

HIPPA violator!! J/K.

I get a bit torn as well on whether I should name names in some circumstances. There isn't really a protocol for that I think.

Along the lines of the topic, I sat on FP for PBC (Pac Base Crew) for a few months and whenever we saw medical PO's, we basically dismissed them. It kind of bugged me, because in one case there was a staff member with a pretty serious degenerative bone problem and the group started to chuckle and someone joked "Help me, I'm melting!". He received no funds and I really don't know if he could have survived his condition.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Something about Hubbard and Cof$'s screwed ideas about the body and sickness has annoyed me since I was a flamin' scio myself..

On the one hand the body is said to be a dispensable piece of MEST.. And yet scios have this fanatic resistance towards health care and the medical field. Like it's some kind of 'spiritual duty' to keep the body healthy by mind power alone.. Sickness being seen as evidence that you are out ethics too.. What -IS- all that crap?

It would make as much sense to do that with your car!

So the coolant pump quits working.. Just ignore it and drive on! - Car running up a temperature.. Ignore it and drive on. That shit is supposed to work. If it doesn't, then the cause is YOU, yourself being out ethics and banky. Handle that and the car will work fine!

That's something to ponder when the engine busts wide open on the highway.

That's what scinoes do with their own bodies. Just plow on until it breaks! - Mind over matter! - They don't give a shit! They take pride in that!

What's the rationale? - That the body is dispensable MEST isn't it? - Makes no sense. They don't really need a body.. Hubbard told them that.. Do you know anybody who managed without the body? - Compared to the car.. You can't just go BUY a new body!

Is the car or the body most dispensable?

Hey! - If the body is a just piece of MEST, why not tinker with it? - It's not like the damned meatball is any kind of sacred item or what? - Why the farkin' hell is this body thing trated like it's sacred shit not to be touched?

Is there some 'spiritual' gain to be had from not getting a body fixed? - Like that guy on the higway with the busted engine? - There's a spiritual win for you!

Ideally you don't even need a body! So says Hubbard...

The guy on the highway walks.. He doesn't really need a car either.. Or what?

Wake up, dammit! - Medical science is the 'body mechanics'. They have a quite workable technology! A tech with more books than $cientology has. With even fancier technical words too! - Life expectancy 500 years ago was 30.. that's with 15 years of toothache.. Today it's 75 without toothache!

Phfft! - $cientology and the Sea Org is about the only 3D's, that I can readily think of, who can't make health care work or even pay their staff. That's criminally ineffective!

:grouch:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
On the one hand the body is said to be a dispensable piece of MEST.. And yet scios have this fanatic resistance towards health care and the medical field. Like it's some kind of 'spiritual duty' to keep the body healthy by mind power alone.. Sickness being seen as evidence that you are out ethics too.. What -IS- all that crap?

It would make as much sense to do that with your car!

:grouch:

I SO agree with you! :yes:
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Abortions:

There are a number of abortions that I knew about from my time in the SO (including myself, I have had two of them, both because of being in the SO).

---

In approx 1988 I was living in a dorm in main building and a girl came from uplines to live there for a couple of days in the same room. One day I came home and she looked very ill. I think I gave her an assist. I found out that she had gotten an abortion and once healed was going back uplines. I dont know her name. She had shoulder-length curlyish brown hair. I believe she was from Gold at the time. Reminds me of April Hall, but it was not April.

----

I had two abortions, both of which are in my story. One comment was at the clinic where I got the abortion in California, the doctor there commented that he got a lot of Scientologist patients there who wanted abortions. I think he was trying to understand why. He told me that another Scientologist was in another room getting one the same day as I was.

----

Another CCI staff member got pregnant and I was asked to help out setting up the abortion. I think I called around and found a clinic for them to go to. I dont think that I took her, or went though. I was involved in making sure that she got assists afterwards to make sure she was ok.

---

I remember sometime in 2000 I guess, I saw a girl I knew to be an SO member walking around the PAC Base, on decks. She was being routed out because of getting pregnant. I remember thinking she was off the rails and extremely out ethics. She was 7 months pregnant and on decks.

I feel very bad that I was part of a group that condones and even assists in murder.

What kind of a religion condones this?

----

They could deny that they condone it. But how many SO members keep their babies compared to how many get abortions? I bet one in a hundred keep the child. After battling ethics and Comm Evs. And 90% of the spouses abandon them. They are routed out with $500.00 in hand. And told they are a DB. And treated like a DB.

Buenas Suerte.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Something about Hubbard and Cof$'s screwed ideas about the body and sickness has annoyed me since I was a flamin' scio myself..

On the one hand the body is said to be a dispensable piece of MEST.. And yet scios have this fanatic resistance towards health care and the medical field. Like it's some kind of 'spiritual duty' to keep the body healthy by mind power alone.. Sickness being seen as evidence that you are out ethics too.. What -IS- all that crap?

It would make as much sense to do that with your car!

So the coolant pump quits working.. Just ignore it and drive on! - Car running up a temperature.. Ignore it and drive on. That shit is supposed to work. If it doesn't, then the cause is YOU, yourself being out ethics and banky. Handle that and the car will work fine!

That's something to ponder when the engine busts wide open on the highway.

That's what scinoes do with their own bodies. Just plow on until it breaks! - Mind over matter! - They don't give a shit! They take pride in that!

What's the rationale? - That the body is dispensable MEST isn't it? - Makes no sense. They don't really need a body.. Hubbard told them that.. Do you know anybody who managed without the body? - Compared to the car.. You can't just go BUY a new body!

Is the car or the body most dispensable?

Hey! - If the body is a just piece of MEST, why not tinker with it? - It's not like the damned meatball is any kind of sacred item or what? - Why the farkin' hell is this body thing trated like it's sacred shit not to be touched?

Is there some 'spiritual' gain to be had from not getting a body fixed? - Like that guy on the higway with the busted engine? - There's a spiritual win for you!

Ideally you don't even need a body! So says Hubbard...

The guy on the highway walks.. He doesn't really need a car either.. Or what?

Wake up, dammit! - Medical science is the 'body mechanics'. They have a quite workable technology! A tech with more books than $cientology has. With even fancier technical words too! - Life expectancy 500 years ago was 30.. that's with 15 years of toothache.. Today it's 75 without toothache!

Phfft! - $cientology and the Sea Org is about the only 3D's, that I can readily think of, who can't make health care work or even pay their staff. That's criminally ineffective!

:grouch:

SchwimmelP! excellent! :)

Now you need to buy the "Flat tire" Rundown...........it is a 75 hour intensive.......but once your on the R/D you will never have a "flat tire," even any cars you own right now that have flat tires will OaTeelly lnflate!!!! :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

PS: A side benefit is if you have "flat" feet or any body part that you have trouble inflating also magically gets handled.

PPS: It will also handle your wobble head growth problem! :)
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
I feel very bad that I was part of a group that condones and even assists in murder.

What kind of a religion condones this?

I'm pro-choice, nevertheless, it's totally unacceptable for any woman to feel pressurised in either direction when she discovers she's pregnant. It's a time for unconditional love and support.

It's a big black stain against CoS and it's pretensions of being a religion.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
It's one of the things that make Scientology a fake religion.

Think of it - letting people who are sick suffer and die? Laughing at people's medical problems, calling them "DB" for having them?

Those are fake people. That is a fake culture.

Cultures exist for the survival of their members.

That Scientology treats its members this way proves that it is fake.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I feel very bad that I was part of a group that condones and even assists in murder.

What kind of a religion condones this?

Buenas Suerte.

Very sad bea.
I remember doing the Purif with a woman who happily started telling me of her abortion in order to continue services. I was really shocked at the time but soon found that most of my peers in the group had done the same.

I know someone else who had to agree to her husband-to-be's demand not to have children when she married, for the same reason.

It is f***ing selfish actually. The attitude that you only exist to serve the group or your own Bridge just skips the whole 2D altogether. :angry:
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I'm pro-choice, nevertheless, it's totally unacceptable for any woman to feel pressurised in either direction when she discovers she's pregnant. It's a time for unconditional love and support.

It's a big black stain against CoS and it's pretensions of being a religion.

I am pro-choice too. I understand there are circumstances where abortion could be the best route.

But I doubt that these were really "pro-choice" decisions.

They are cloaked well as such.

Abortion or Comm Ev. Your choice. You out ethics bastard.

----

They actually now expect married couples to use two forms of birth control to make sure.

Maybe the original idea was for people to not get pregnant in the first place. But then when they did, it was major ethics trouble.
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
I am pro-choice too. I understand there are circumstances where abortion could be the best route.

But I doubt that these were really "pro-choice" decisions.

They are cloaked well as such.

Abortion or Comm Ev. Your choice. You out ethics bastard.

I doubt it too - very much so.
That was the point I was trying to make, Bea. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I think it stinks.
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
I am bumping this thread because it has some heartbreaking stories about how Sea Org members are treated when they get sick. This information needs to be known, and if any other ex-Sea org have more stories, now is the time to tell them.

I predicted that the cult of scientology would start offloading all the sick people from the Sea Org and try to cover up the fact that they don't provide any health insurance or regular health care to their members now that the story of Uwe Stuckenbrock has become public.

According to this thread on ESK they have started doing just that:

Medical coverage in the Sea Org

http://exscientologykids.com/eskforums/viewtopic.php?t=3390
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Did I miss something? I don't remember the SO making a claim that they provided health insurance or care... Perhaps it's in some advertising or bulletin or something I didn't read.
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
gomorrhan, They are required by law to make sure "religious workers" on Visas do not become public charges, and they promise you when you are being recruited that all your medical and dental needs will be taken care of. There are tons of stories and references all over the net. start with this thread and maybe read some of the references linked on Uwe's brothers thread.

They are also required to follow OSHA regulations and have workers comp insurance, but they don't do that either.
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
I didn't realize that Church workers were bound by those same types of rules. I'm not much of a lawyer. I knew they promised the moon, I just didn't realize it was in writing that they would cover medical or dental needs.

I'm not defending them, just anticipating their defense.
 

Carmel

Crusader
I am bumping this thread because it has some heartbreaking stories about how Sea Org members are treated when they get sick. This information needs to be known, and if any other ex-Sea org have more stories, now is the time to tell them.

I predicted that the cult of scientology would start offloading all the sick people from the Sea Org and try to cover up the fact that they don't provide any health insurance or regular health care to their members now that the story of Uwe Stuckenbrock has become public.

According to this thread on ESK they have started doing just that:

Medical coverage in the Sea Org

http://exscientologykids.com/eskforums/viewtopic.php?t=3390
Thanks for bumping thread Ladybird - while somewhat confronting, it's beneficial to have the info.

We had only a couple of examples (that I know of) of such neglect in ANZO. While they were horrendous, some of us considered the occurrances as 'one offs' and attributed their cause, to that of a couple of militant type individuals - rather than an operating basis rampant within the ranks.
 

anonmom

Patron with Honors
I was told that the Sea Org would take care of all my needs so I would not be concerned about those wog details and could get on with clearing the planet. But after I was in I saw the poor treatment and neglect that people were given. People still on post though in agony because of a decayed tooth. Then when they went to the dentist the tooth just got pulled instead of crowned because it was cheaper. One guy told me that it only cost him $40 that way. (We only made $30 a week) I asked if the Sea Org paid for it because I thought they took care of us. He just shook his head and said that he took care of it himself. I started to see more and more that if you were ill it was the fault of your own PTSness and you weren't allowed to let it slow down your production. Medical care would be seen as rewarding a downstat. :no:
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Pain is irrelevant. Expenses are irrelevant. Individuals are irrelevant. Humanities distinctiveness will be assimilated. We are the Sea Org. Resistance is futile. Revenimus.
 
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