SEA ORG MEDICAL

Carnaubawax

Patron Meritorious
Did I miss something? I don't remember the SO making a claim that they provided health insurance or care... Perhaps it's in some advertising or bulletin or something I didn't read.
I heard that it was offered verbally as part of the entrapment patter.
 

Carnaubawax

Patron Meritorious
Thanks for bumping thread Ladybird - while somewhat confronting, it's beneficial to have the info.

We had only a couple of examples (that I know of) of such neglect in ANZO. While they were horrendous, some of us considered the occurrances as 'one offs' and attributed their cause, to that of a couple of militant type individuals - rather than an operating basis rampant within the ranks.

That was very goodthinkful of you.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
I didn't realize that Church workers were bound by those same types of rules. I'm not much of a lawyer. I knew they promised the moon, I just didn't realize it was in writing that they would cover medical or dental needs.

I'm not defending them, just anticipating their defense.


I just see it as something they "should" do considering how hard SO members work. And the fact they are the "most ethical group on the planet".:duh:
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Not that this was asked, but want to fyi everyone that on Staff (full, full fulltime or Foundation) we had no medical, whatsoever, either.

And since our pay was little, we could barely afford food with it.

Whenever any of us took ill, we were sent home, and took vitamins/natural stuff (like Cell Tech's Algae, remember that?
icon_rolleyes.gif
).

And if it was worse, we would be given assists here and there by fellow staff when they had time, but then we were on our own to beg from our families for money or wait it out.

Michelle
 

apple

Patron Meritorious
I remember a couple that went to the SO to LA, from Canada. At that time I thought, wow, they are going to the big time. A few months later the lady returned in need of an operation because the medical in Canada was inexpensive and provided by the government. I thought what a shoddy, cheap organization the SO was, they could not even provide her with the medical attention that she needed. One red flag up! I hope that they never returned after the operation.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I remember a couple that went to the SO to LA, from Canada. At that time I thought, wow, they are going to the big time. A few months later the lady returned in need of an operation because the medical in Canada was inexpensive and provided by the government. I thought what a shoddy, cheap organization the SO was, they could not even provide her with the medical attention that she needed. One red flag up! I hope that they never returned after the operation.

This was likely Sharon Matheison. Her father was Rae Matheison. Sharon was about 11 or 12 years old, I think. She needed heart surgery as her heart was deffective. She was getting a routine type surgery, that should not have been risky at all, and she passed away during that surgery.

I always wondered if they had waited too long, or what was the deal. There were a lot of unanswered questions about it.

Sharon was someone I knew when I was younger, and I was very sad and sorry when she passed.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
This was likely Sharon Matheison. Her father was Rae Matheison. Sharon was about 11 or 12 years old, I think. She needed heart surgery as her heart was deffective. She was getting a routine type surgery, that should not have been risky at all, and she passed away during that surgery.

I always wondered if they had waited too long, or what was the deal. There were a lot of unanswered questions about it.

Sharon was someone I knew when I was younger, and I was very sad and sorry when she passed.


when did this happen Bea?? I never heard about it. Rae was a good friend of mine and I am very saddened to hear that he lost his daughter.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
when did this happen Bea?? I never heard about it. Rae was a good friend of mine and I am very saddened to hear that he lost his daughter.

She passed away in the mid 90's. He was devistated for many months. It was so sad. I am sorry this is how you found out about it.

I believe they are Canadian, and the surgery was done in Canada.
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Bea, Did you know Matteo Galbiati? He was an Italian who joined the Sea org as teen in the early 80s with his parents Bianca and Gian Carlo and brother Andreas. He worked his way up to OT VII C/S, but was busted to the RPF at PAC when he developed a heart condition and had to have a pacemaker in 2000 or so.

If anyone knows Matteo, please ask him to pm me or call someone they trust. I can't bear the thought that he would think he owed a freeloader debt or was doing A to E after all the cult did to him and his family. I think he was offloaded in 2005 or so, as were his dad and brother, but his mom and wife were still in.

Matteo will never get back in due to his medical problems, though he is smart enough to make enough money to pay off his freeloader debt.

He is only one of many people who was used up and thrown under the bus by the cult. Unlike Uwe Stuckenbrock, Matteo still has a chance.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Bea, Did you know Matteo Galbiati? He was an Italian who joined the Sea org as teen in the early 80s with his parents Bianca and Gian Carlo and brother Andreas. He worked his way up to OT VII C/S, but was busted to the RPF at PAC when he developed a heart condition and had to have a pacemaker in 2000 or so.

If anyone knows Matteo, please ask him to pm me or call someone they trust. I can't bear the thought that he would think he owed a freeloader debt or was doing A to E after all the cult did to him and his family. I think he was offloaded in 2005 or so, as were his dad and brother, but his mom and wife were still in.

Matteo will never get back in due to his medical problems, though he is smart enough to make enough money to pay off his freeloader debt.

He is only one of many people who was used up and thrown under the bus by the cult. Unlike Uwe Stuckenbrock, Matteo still has a chance.


Yes I know Matteo. I did not know he was out. He is in my story. We were twinned on the RPF for a while - almost a year. I was his twin when the pacemaker was put in him. I know the whole story.

I had no idea he was out. I thought he graduated the RPF (He graduated with Jill Graham, who passed away from breast cancer a few months after the RPF and Matteo was sent back to the RPF, but I thought he graduated).

Matteo, if you ever see this, please PM me. I owe you an apology and a few beers!!!!
 

Stephanie

Patron with Honors
I'm speechless after reading your story Bea.

The lack of compassion is just unfathomable. I wish you well in your new life.
 

Tim Skog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Bruce Gaines was still alive in 2004 when I left. He still has those heart troubles. I dont think they have done much to help him with it.

I worked across from him in the C/S office for a year. I dont recall any medical assistance given to him.

Though he got plenty of ethics and justice actions. And alot of grief. He really is a nice guy. I felt sorry for him.

I feel like shit for seeing this post over a year later. I knew Bruce when we were both on staff at NY Org '79-84. Bruce was C/S and I worked in GO PR with his wife Joyce. Both of them were just the sweetest people.

I lost touch after I went to LA in '84 and was posted in OSA. I knew Bruce was also out there, but I just never ran into him. I left in '86.

It just pisses me off when I hear about the ill treatment of SO members. What a sick, evil, f#*king group the SO is.:angry:
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
I SO agree with you! :yes:

Something about Hubbard and Cof$'s screwed ideas about the body and sickness has annoyed me since I was a flamin' scio myself..

On the one hand the body is said to be a dispensable piece of MEST.. And yet scios have this fanatic resistance towards health care and the medical field. Like it's some kind of 'spiritual duty' to keep the body healthy by mind power alone.. Sickness being seen as evidence that you are out ethics too.. What -IS- all that crap?

It would make as much sense to do that with your car!

So the coolant pump quits working.. Just ignore it and drive on! - Car running up a temperature.. Ignore it and drive on. That shit is supposed to work. If it doesn't, then the cause is YOU, yourself being out ethics and banky. Handle that and the car will work fine!

That's something to ponder when the engine busts wide open on the highway.

That's what scinoes do with their own bodies. Just plow on until it breaks! - Mind over matter! - They don't give a shit! They take pride in that!

What's the rationale? - That the body is dispensable MEST isn't it? - Makes no sense. They don't really need a body.. Hubbard told them that.. Do you know anybody who managed without the body? - Compared to the car.. You can't just go BUY a new body!

Is the car or the body most dispensable?

Hey! - If the body is a just piece of MEST, why not tinker with it? - It's not like the damned meatball is any kind of sacred item or what? - Why the farkin' hell is this body thing trated like it's sacred shit not to be touched?

Is there some 'spiritual' gain to be had from not getting a body fixed? - Like that guy on the higway with the busted engine? - There's a spiritual win for you!

Ideally you don't even need a body! So says Hubbard...

The guy on the highway walks.. He doesn't really need a car either.. Or what?

Wake up, dammit! - Medical science is the 'body mechanics'. They have a quite workable technology! A tech with more books than $cientology has. With even fancier technical words too! - Life expectancy 500 years ago was 30.. that's with 15 years of toothache.. Today it's 75 without toothache!

Phfft! - $cientology and the Sea Org is about the only 3D's, that I can readily think of, who can't make health care work or even pay their staff. That's criminally ineffective!

:grouch:

I rode with a Class VI interned auditor on the freeway in Los Angeles - she was driving a car with brakes that could barely stop the RAMBLER (a fucking Rambler!!! American!!!). She didn't tell me this until we slowed down about 50 feet behind the car in front of us using the engine and then she began to pump the brakes and mutter "come on... come on...".

She continued this for weeks!

On another occasion I went to a clinic in Clearwater - one of those urgent care private facilities. I had an infection in my foot and the doc, knowing I was a Scientologist, asked me if I was actually going to take the very high strength antibiotics - these were like 200.00 for a 15 day supply in late 1980's... Apparently, being in Clearwater he got Sea Org EPFers regularly - and they would blatantly refuse to take medicines or fill prescriptions, and go uncared for despite being diagnosed. For him it was frustrating.

Make it go wrong dudes.
 

Imnotsupposetobehere

Patron with Honors
When I was on EPF there was this one guy that was in my unit and one day he just disappeared, I asked the Unit I/C and he said that the guy was in ISO.
A while later I had a cold and was feeling dizzy so I was sent to ISO for the day and I heard really loud moaning like someone was in horrible pain. I talked to one of the girls that where laying on the bed next to me who it was and I was told that it was the guy from my unit. That night before I went up to berthing I was brushing my teeth and he accidentally walked in (the female and male ISO share a bathroom). He looked miserable and I felt so bad for him, I finished brushing my teeth quickly and walked out. I never saw him again. I really hope he's okay.

There is a lot to say on the subject of staff welfare. I have a number of stories about staff medical care that are just off the top of my head. I have many, many more, so I decided to start a thread on it, so I can have a place to note them all.

Some of them are in my story. But it deserves its own thread.

----

As a child, being raised in the Sea Org, I was fortunately in good health and did not need much in the way of health care. At the age of 7 I needed stitches and was brought to Shaw Health Center (Scn doctor clinic in LA) and given care. I dont know if the org or my mother had to pay for it.

----

When I was 14 I fractured a bone in my foot. I was taken to the Childrens Hospital, which was just up the street from PAC Base. I know that this visit was not paid for. My mother got me a Social Security Card at the time and somehow, through government insurance of some sort, this was paid for. (I was young and did not follow up exactly).

----

As I was in the SO, and dealt a lot with staff welfare and care, I ran into a lot of things about this. Now, some critic (a critic of me, such as a member of the cult) could say that this was my resonsibility to handle the staff welfare, so really this is about myself and my neglect of the staff. But really. Lets confront this here. Its the system. The way it is set up.

Does the staff have medical insurance? And dental insurance? 401K? Vision?

----

As the SSO, I was given, on average, $200.00 per week to care for the staff. That is 200 staff. So one dollar per week, per staff member.

I tried to get little thises and thats paid for, but it was rather difficult. Mind you, the CO did try to help where possible. If there was a real medical problem with a staff member, he would do all he could to help financially to make sure that they were cared for. But that was only when things really got bad. Preventative was totally missing, except for the vitamins that I would purchase every week.

----

There are a couple of medical stories to be told here:

There was a security guard who was ill for 3 days with a headache. He could not work. I went to see him (nobody bothered to even tell me he was out ill until the third day) and saw a VERY PALE and weak person. He said his head was killing him. I decided to send him to the doctors. I brought him to Shaw and dropped him off. By the time I got back to CCI, I already had an urgent call from Dr Shields. She told me I had to RUSH him to a hospital and get him a blood transfusion immediately or he would die. He had already lost 3 pints of blood. (He did not tell me this when I saw him). Even though there are hospitals ALL AROUND the PAC Base, did I go to any of them? No. We went all the way out to County Hospital, in Sylmar, which is about 20 - 25 minute drive. He did make it, thank goodness. The reason we did that was to save on cost. County hospital can be free if you know how to work the system. At least back then it was. They changed it for a small fee since then.

----

Another person I knew, who was on the RPF, but still, he is a SOLO NOTs C/S, and so for that, should be considered valuable to the church. He was having heart problems and long story short, he needed a pacemaker. It was all done by interns at the downtown LA hospital. For cost reasons.

----

Maybe some lives could have been saved, if medical insurance existed, and people were not made wrong and made to feel they had case on post if they have a medical condition. I know there are friends and family of Natalie Ellis (may she rest in peace) read here, but I feel obligated to mention this:

In these cases of cancer showing up when they are too far advanced to do anything about them..... could they have been prevented had insurance been available and they could get checked out early enough that it could save their lives? Off hand, I could list a lot of people who lost their lives to cancer. Could they have been prevented by proper medical checkups, which do not exist in the SO?

To you, those who did not survive cancer (I love you all):

Jill Graham
Allen Hubbert
John Mustard
Natalie Ellis
Erik Knauerhase
Beth Yamaguchi
Carol Monroe
David Russouw

And Felicia Balentine, who passed away from complications from the flu.

May you all rest in peace.

(More stories to come. And please, add your own)
 
Let's face it, it's strictly a business decision, staff and Sea Org members are nothing more that material assets in the form of slaves which require maintenance. Expenditures on these assets are strictly based on the slave's worth. Medical care is no different. When in the Sea Org or on staff, you are a piece of property. If this property is easily replaceable then it is basically disposable. All the goofy ethics, conditions, and rehabilitation are just to justify where these assets need to be allocated. What other organization do you know of where getting physically ill is held against you in such a way, other than labor camps? The soon you free yourself of the delusion that the Church of Scientology cares about the individuals that make up the organization the clearer it becomes.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Medical Care and the Sea Org

The notion that if you have a medical condition, that automatically makes you PTS and downstat is completely insane. I think that the Sea Org point of view is not confronting what is going on and contains within it a skipped gradient. To explain this, I cite the following:
1. All Sea Org members agree that the body will die at some point.
2. If a senior Scientologist who served Scientology well dies, Sea Org members acknowledge his achievments and do not think of him as a PTS or downstat person.
3. The Sea Org funeral service thanks the person for his service and tells him to hurry back and rejoin.

In other words, if the person served the Sea Org well while he was live, he is acknowledged and HE IS NOT THOUGHT OF AS HAVING DIED AS A PTS.
HOWEVER, while he is still living, if he has phsyical degeneration, he is considered PTS and a downstat. The way the agreements on bodies are set up in the universe is the create, growth, decay and death cycle as set forth in Eastern Religions as well as Scientology itself as stated in "Fundamentals of Thought".

The Sea Org is happy with the create and growth segments of the cycle and after death has occured, they seem to be comfortable with that segments as well but they choose to simply "NOT IS" or fail to confront the existence of the 3rd segment of the cycle, th decay phase. If a person wants to lessen or mitigate the decay segment of his body's cycle, using the tech currently existing in the world, he is not supported but is instead cast aside as a downstat. Yet, when he finally dies, the Sea Org will then again honor him.

Anyone who can make sense out of this please clue me in.
lkwdblds
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Sea Org Medical in the 70's

I was in CCLA treasury in the 70's for 2 years. For a period, I served on the Financial Planning Committee. As a result, I know the following data:
In two years, about 6 staff members submitted purchase orders to the FP committee, asking the Org to pay for medical problems, all or nearly all of which were for dental matters such as tooth aches. All 6 were turned down
by FP committee but 2 of the 6 complained to the commanding officer, Yvonne, and she got the purchase orders put through. The cost of these 6 was always in the $75 to $150 range. There was one P,O. which FP approved without Yvonne's having to intercede. This was for a pregnant member of the Qual Division, Chris, to have a doctor come to the Org Staff House and oversee the delivery of her baby. This P.O. was for $350, the only reason the purchase order went through was because the Qual Sec, Sam, was on the FP committee and he used "Tone 40 Intention" to get us to approve it.

The regular Medical Office of the Org was staffed by a kind young woman named Jenny or Ginny who had been a nurse before joining Scn. What she offered were all the LRH Assists, which she could have given to staff at no charge. Her other tools were to have ill staff go and talk to the Master at Arms (Ethics Officer) and also have them read portions of the Adele Davis books on health and nutrition. Her office also provided free cal-mag, a bromide created by LRH which calmed and nourished the body and she also could give the ill staff certain vitamins. If it came to dressing and bandaging wounds or minor cuts or scrapes, she had everything on hand plus the ability to do a great job. For more serious things, staff were sent to the Shaw Health center but the person had to pay Shaw themselves, not the Org. Good and nutritious food was being served in the Org at that time and most of the staff were young so medical was not a large department.

One person, Eddie Rabin the billiard player, came down with a very serious flu and he was put in isolation in the attic of the staff house. I had to go up there one day to look at the electrical wiring and I heard Eddie moaning and crying out for orange juice. I went in to see him and he was runing a high fever and he was very upset with Yvonne and the fact that he could not get orange juice. At his request, I immediately went to a health food store and bought him a half gallon of orange juice plus some other things, I am pretty sure I bought him a bottle of aspirin. I brought the stuff back to him and the aspirin and O.J. got him back on his feet enough so that he was able to walk and his fever dropped. He routed out of the Org immediately and went back to his old job in Las Vegas. Aside from Eddie, there were no untreated staff that I know of.
lkwdblds
 

thefiredragon

Patron Meritorious
Yeah,this is crazy. I knew many people at Flag who had a hard time seeing the doctor.One of the girls thought she was pregnant,she borrowed money from me for her pregnancy test. Luckly,she was not pregnant. Just stressed out.My friend did abortion and had to pay for it herself. When I left Sea Org,
I had a son in 2000. I was homeless,so i aplied for medicaid. I got medicaid,
but after I had my son,they refused to pay for it,because i had R1 visa and
I was told that the Church should be responsible for the bill.
 
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