Sec Checks: "I am not auditing you" WTF? Please explain

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
What does this mean "I am not auditing you" when you get a sec check? there were other stuff auditor's did where they would say this before the session...what were they? I can't remember - and I am Oat Tee too..:whistling:...oh yeah, but I am not trained! :unsure:

I still got charged "auditing rates" - especially at the Fraud Scam Base!! $800 per hour for "I am not auditing you"

I had an auditor sitting across from me listening to me - and I was "interested in my own case" talking to the auditor...so what exactly was the auditor doing?

Please enlighten me....I am really curious now about this!!
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
It means you are not given the protection of a confessional. Anything said in those sessions can be used against you or others. Same exact thing, except you can get KRs and conditions and whatever punishment the cult sees fit. And yep, they still charge you for the privilege of having them charge you.
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
What does this mean "I am not auditing you" when you get a sec check? there were other stuff auditor's did where they would say this before the session...what were they? I can't remember - and I am Oat Tee too..:whistling:...oh yeah, but I am not trained! :unsure:

I still got charged "auditing rates" - especially at the Fraud Scam Base!! $800 per hour for "I am not auditing you"

I had an auditor sitting across from me listening to me - and I was "interested in my own case" talking to the auditor...so what exactly was the auditor doing?

Please enlighten me....I am really curious now about this!!

$800 dollars an hour. Goddamn. Wow.
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
$800 dollars an hour. Goddamn. Wow.

Yes. Wildly escalating prices had a lot to do with me getting out. And that was over 30 years ago when it was a lot cheaper.

I thought $50 an hour was too much for auditing. It was $25 when I got in. (That was lower-level garden variety auditing. I'm sure upper levels and Flag were more.)

I though $1000 for a Mark VI e-meter was ridiculous. I paid $100 for my Mark V, used, perfect condition, a few years earlier. A pc gave me a Mark VI as a present. (No way I could have afforded one myself.) As far as I could see the Mark VI was no better than the V. That got me thinking, "This 'new and improved' technology is just a way to screw money out of people," in this case the auditors, "the most valuable beings on the planet."

That really made me take a new look at the whole thing, and start thinking things were seriously wrong.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
It means you are not given the protection of a confessional. Anything said in those sessions can be used against you or others. Same exact thing, except you can get KRs and conditions and whatever punishment the cult sees fit. And yep, they still charge you for the privilege of having them charge you.

Huh? I think all "sec checks" are called "confessionals" as part of the religious cloaking of Scientology. If so, and as I understand it, there are two types of "confessionals", the standard one and the HCO one, and it is the HCO ones which start with the [STRIKE]interregator[/STRIKE] Auditor saying "I am not auditing you" because the session has some sort of official and particular Ethics aspect to it.

On the other hand, perhaps, you were referring to the "protection of Auditing (counselling)", but there is no protection. Never has been. L Ron Hubbard KSW Standard Scientology is replete with "scripture" and example detailing how material obtained via auditing can be used against the person, and others named during "session". Auditors are NOT your friend, they are data harvesters providing the cult with the sort of personal information which fuels the extortion and milieu control functions of Scientology.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
Huh? I think all "sec checks" are called "confessionals" as part of the religious cloaking of Scientology. If so, and as I understand it, there are two types of "confessionals", the standard one and the HCO one, and it is the HCO ones which start with the [STRIKE]interregator[/STRIKE] Auditor saying "I am not auditing you" because the session has some sort of official and particular Ethics aspect to it.

On the other hand, perhaps, you were referring to the "protection of Auditing (counselling)", but there is no protection. Never has been. L Ron Hubbard KSW Standard Scientology is replete with "scripture" and example detailing how material obtained via auditing can be used against the person, and others named during "session". Auditors are NOT your friend, they are data harvesters providing the cult with the sort of personal information which fuels the extortion and milieu control functions of Scientology.

As a wog I am interested to know how important blackmail and extortion are in the operation of Scientology (of the LRH KSW SS variety)? Is there also a voluntary aspect to Auditing, as in I come freely with my cheque book and you audit me, for fun, no blackmail attached?

When is blackmail used?
 

AnonSunshine

Patron with Honors
....you were referring to the "protection of Auditing (counselling)", but there is no protection. Never has been. L Ron Hubbard KSW Standard Scientology is replete with "scripture" and example detailing how material obtained via auditing can be used against the person, and others named during "session". Auditors are NOT your friend, they are data harvesters providing the cult with the sort of personal information which fuels the extortion and milieu control functions of Scientology.

I agreed and have seen through the years that I was a public in the Cult.
There is no protection.
Every thing you say can be used against you, and has been used with any one who disagrees with the Cult or David Miscavige.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
As a wog I am interested to know how important blackmail and extortion are in the operation of Scientology (of the LRH KSW SS variety)? Is there also a voluntary aspect to Auditing, as in I come freely with my cheque book and you audit me, for fun, no blackmail attached?

When is blackmail used?

I'm a wog, too. As to whether or not there is a voluntary aspect to Auditing, just try leaving an auditing session without permission. L Ron Hubbard talks about how it is the job of an Auditor to "own" the PC and exericise control at all times, which is not really that difficult to do once the PC has been conditioned via the TRs and Grades and, thus, more susceptible to entering the hypnotic-like trance state required for Auditing. I guess its possible that Scientology would set up an "intro" Auditing session, a bit like the "pinch-test" ruse, but it wouldn't be KSW; likewise, if no personal information was gathered it wouldn't be KSW. Whether or not that information is subsequently used for blackmail/extortion depends largely on how compliant a Scientologist is and with whom they are associated. As to how important the extortion aspect is, let me put it this way: without the extortion it wouldn't be Scientology. When is extortion used? Daily.
 

Jump

Operating teatime
As a wog I am interested to know how important blackmail and extortion are in the operation of Scientology (of the LRH KSW SS variety)? Is there also a voluntary aspect to Auditing, as in I come freely with my cheque book and you audit me, for fun, no blackmail attached?

When is blackmail used?



I'm looking forward to Jenna Miscavige's book. I'm thinking it will answer a lot of these questions in harrowing detail.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
OK, my answer was a bit muddy. Regular 'confessionals' were done with the supposed guarantee of protection. I usually didn't see this abused until the person was already in some sort of hot water, and it was almost never done out in the open, in order to protect the appearance of the sanctity of the confession. When it was found out that the ED had looked at a folder of a staff member I was auditing, it was a huge flap. It was to be made sure that public never found out she did this and uplines came down pretty hard when they found out. Of course if someone was declared, then it was 'Fair Game' and all prior promises were off, but this was also something not to be broadcast.

They were pretty random on when they seemed to get used. I got called into ethics because I had looked at a guy on course and was thinking of him instead of working on course--it was a few minute long thing and they grilled me to death to find out if I was some out-ethics piece of crap. Another time I got off a withhold that I assumed they'd flip out, and I never heard word one. I asked my auditor about going to ethics and was told it wasn't needed--since it came up in session.

The HCO sec checks on the other hand; it was known that there would be ethics consequences. The two actions were run the same way, except one started with the 'not auditing you' and the auditor wrote up everything that took place in session in knowledge report form and sent the copies to ethics. Also, the action was not considered complete until the pc routed through ethics to complete his 'handlings' for whatever came up. The leaving staff ones were the most insane, with questions being added daily.

Also, the writing up as overts and withholds is nothing I ever saw written that seemed to imply those were afforded confidentiality. These of course were common. Stats are down, you do a write-up. Plus they are in your own hand. Freaking nightmare.
 

PTS

Elliott
You're supposed to just lie back, close your eyes, and think of England.
And smoke a Kool afterwards.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm a wog, too. As to whether or not there is a voluntary aspect to Auditing, just try leaving an auditing session without permission. L Ron Hubbard talks about how it is the job of an Auditor to "own" the PC and exericise control at all times, which is not really that difficult to do once the PC has been conditioned via the TRs and Grades and, thus, more susceptible to entering the hypnotic-like trance state required for Auditing.

Infinite's right about this - auditors are even trained in ways to physically restrain a pc who is trying to leave before the session has reached the intended close. My twin and I physically dragged each other kicking and screaming around the room for a full day and were covered with bruises and bumps afterward. Looking back, it's frigging crazy that you'd do that to another person in a session environment and I certainly never had to do anything of the sort, but the course itself it was a blast, I have to say.

The personal info gathered during routine auditing is whatever the auditor deems necessary to write down - it's not verbatim, it's supposed to be brief and enough to jog the memory of the auditor when he is putting his worksheets together for the case supervisor to review. During the routine stages of auditing there is little if any backlash for the pc re: what's discussed in session. If a Potential Trouble Source situation comes up, the auditor will usually interrupt whatever action they're on and do a handling, or send them to ethics to get a handling. If a security issue comes up, the DSA may be dragged into it, and if crimes come up then the person is taken off auditing lines and sent to ethics for interview and handling and the DSA would be involved in this as well, as much for PR damage control as anything. If other people's crimes come up those can be written up regardless of session type. The real issue IMO is the culling of folders for things like OT eligibility, at which point RTC steps in and from what I understand, anything and everything they find out becomes part of a permanent database they maintain. What form that takes or whether that's a literal or metaphorical description of what they do with the info, I can't say.

The "I'm not auditing you," statement at the beginning of an action basically tells the person receiving it that whatever they say will be relayed to other people and that there is no session confidentiality. It's kind of the Scientology version of the Miranda...except that you have no rights! :p
 
As a wog I am interested to know how important blackmail and extortion are in the operation of Scientology (of the LRH KSW SS variety)? Is there also a voluntary aspect to Auditing, as in I come freely with my cheque book and you audit me, for fun, no blackmail attached?

When is blackmail used?

happily i can report that it wasn't being done in the orgs where i trained and worked

i take the many credible reports of increasing use of these things quite seriously
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Huh? I think all "sec checks" are called "confessionals" as part of the religious cloaking of Scientology. If so, and as I understand it, there are two types of "confessionals", the standard one and the HCO one, and it is the HCO ones which start with the [STRIKE]interregator[/STRIKE] Auditor saying "I am not auditing you" because the session has some sort of official and particular Ethics aspect to it.

On the other hand, perhaps, you were referring to the "protection of Auditing (counselling)", but there is no protection. Never has been. L Ron Hubbard KSW Standard Scientology is replete with "scripture" and example detailing how material obtained via auditing can be used against the person, and others named during "session". Auditors are NOT your friend, they are data harvesters providing the cult with the sort of personal information which fuels the extortion and milieu control functions of Scientology.

Some of 'em are called " OT Preps".

phenom anon
 
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Ho Tai

Patron Meritorious
Auditors are NOT your friend, they are data harvesters providing the cult with the sort of personal information which fuels the extortion and milieu control functions of Scientology.
Your comment just brought two incidents crashing together in my mind.
#1: My auditor and I had become pretty friendly when one day she asked me what my net worth was. It was in the context of a discussion we were having and I told her. This is information that only my spouse and my financial advisor know. I asked her to keep it between us, she said she would, and of course as a highly ethical scientologist I assumed that she would.
#2: A couple of years later I was in a highly charged IAS regging session. The IAS reg made the comment something like "You're worth about X, right?" It was the figure I had given my auditor. I said I never discuss that with anyone.
:duh:
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
happily i can report that it wasn't being done in the orgs where i trained and worked

i take the many credible reports of increasing use of these things quite seriously
Me too. I did not know of any instances of auditing data being used for extortion or blackmail. (I don't doubt that it happens, though, and was happening even in my time. I never ran into it.) I think it depends on where/when you were. My own experience was limited to two missions and one class iv org (what they call class v now) and I had almost no contact with sea org.
 

Lamb

Patron with Honors
I had an hco sec check at flag and being 'OT IV' they didn't bother to get a class 9 to do it, just a class 4 who wasn't even clear. Needless to say, ownership of charge was never done and my complaints of out tech did not matter. Luckily, by then I didn't give a darn and left permanently afterward.....Flag, yea, a mecca of perfection if you are looking to really spin in.
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
I had an hco sec check at flag and being 'OT IV' they didn't bother to get a class 9 to do it, just a class 4 who wasn't even clear. Needless to say, ownership of charge was never done and my complaints of out tech did not matter. Luckily, by then I didn't give a darn and left permanently afterward.....Flag, yea, a mecca of perfection if you are looking to really spin in.
Hmm, what was the excuse given for a non-clear doing this on an OT? Was it that it wasn't really auditing, i.e. "I am not auditing you"? I never thought about that one. :unsure:
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hmm, what was the excuse given for a non-clear doing this on an OT? Was it that it wasn't really auditing, i.e. "I am not auditing you"? I never thought about that one. :unsure:

Yes, how was that one explained? Lamb, did they make you do another CCRD before you continued on? That's the only thing I can think of that would explain it - that you'd been adjudicated not Clear.
 

Lamb

Patron with Honors
Yes, how was that one explained? Lamb, did they make you do another CCRD before you continued on? That's the only thing I can think of that would explain it - that you'd been adjudicated not Clear.

Somehow I deserved the treatment because I refused to join the SO and my overts must have been horrendous. I endured 4 days until 1am before I told them where to go....
 
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