Self-Fulfilling Prophecies in Scientology Tech

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Several of these have been mentioned here and there. But I have a sneaking suspicion this is a largely unconsidered factor in the "workability" of Scientology.

Here is an example I haven't written much about that I thought of a few hours ago: Dating and Locating. There is this huge HCOB Hubbard issued in 1978 called DATING & LOCATING. The basic idea is that charged incidents have a time tag and a location tag associated with them. Sometimes you can key out the incident by spotting its time and maybe also location. The HCOB goes into the whole thing in MINUTE detail, including drills to learn the procedure of dating to the fraction of a second (if needed) and locating to the fraction of an inch (if needed).

Now, this isn't used all the time, but it can involve incidents supposedly millions of years ago on other planets.

Auditors are probably more familiar with the idiosyncrasies of this than pcs, but the pc can point to a totally wrong location (like he's in LA and says it happened in New York five years and one day ago but he's pointing west) and the needle blows down and F/Ns. Assuming (from personal experience) there is some truth to Hubbard's statement that spotting something about the time can blow some charge, or unstick the incident, what can happen is that the pc spots something at the same time he is talking, but what comes out of his mouth is not necessarily what he spotted.

It's not really a problem *in the session*, as the charge keys out, F/N VGIs, end of process or whatever. But what can happen with a pc is this:

Auditor: "When was it?"
Pc: "723 trillion years, 18 days and 46 1/2 seconds ago. It blew!" (Big win. VGIs)
(Meter: LFBD F/N)
Auditor: Your needle is floating. End of session.

What happened here? Two things:
1. The pc blew some charge on something, whatever it was.
2. The pc has had the ridiculous date he just invented VALIDATED. It's ridiculous because it is almost infinitely improbable that a figure of that magnitude would have so many zeroes in it (EXACTLY 723,000,000,000,000 years, 18 days etc.); and secondly I know of no evidence that beings are that old. Assertions from Hubbard and other people in session are not evidence. Meter reads are not evidence. Dr. Michael Newton's between-lives research on over 7,000 cases (see this thread) isn't too specific but I don't see anyone there "born" more than a million years ago.

-----

Another example which I have much discussed elsewhere on ESMB is the apparent workability of OT2 and OT3. By workability I mean people who do the procedure exactly (and even who screw around with it, knowingly or not) often have the expected things happen. Lots of reads on the proper items occur on OT2, and stuff reads and blows (i.e., it F/Ns and ceases to read and feels like it has gone) on OT3. The statement I usually make is something like "that the *procedure* works is no guarantee that the *theory* is correct."

However, that the procedure works (when it does!) can easily be taken by the solo auditor to mean that the theory IS correct.

-----

I see an earlier post of mine (#52 in the thread) where I said, "When you solo audited, was a possible factor the "self-fulfilling prophecy" aspect of "Oh good, it's F/Ning, phew" causing a prolongation or widening of the F/N? (I think that general idea of the self-fulfilling bit came from Veda.)"

-----

Any other examples or comments?

Paul
 
Last edited:

Good twin

Floater
I agree Paul. Even at lower levels we get some of this kind of stuff. PCs assume that the meter is telling them that what they just said is true. Sadly the auditor knows this isn't true, but sits there not evaluating.

Doing an assessment on fairly green PCs almost always works this way:

Auditor: Is that a break in A? x R? x C? sf

Was that a break in C?

PC: Is that what the meter says?

Auditor: Is that what YOU say? I'm asking. Is that a break in C?

PC: It must be if the meter says so. Is my needle floating?


And that's just the newbies. Later on after they've read some History of Man and some of the R&D vols and listened to a couple of PDC tapes, you get all kinds of stuff.

On FPRD or Dianetics where you run chains or even on Ruds for that matter when you are running E/S. PCs seem to hobby horse their favorite section of the time track. Such as every chain resolves with a Marcabian incident. I had PCs I could predict exactly how many E/S and where on the TT the E/S would be because the PC used the same five or six lifetimes to resolve every incident. As a PC I'm pretty sure I did this myself. Yep got a result on expectation I suspect.

One thing Hubbard got right for sure. The mind is a powerful force. :yes:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
example: Scientology processes end in a 'win'.

'continue until a cog or ability regained'.

Zinj
 

Good twin

Floater
example: Scientology processes end in a 'win'.

'continue until a cog or ability regained'.

Zinj

Exactly. And by the time you do your OT levels, you're an expert at tying all up with a bow.

As some of you might know by now, I am a storyteller. My session data was some of my best work. It made everything in my life make sense. I mean everything. There were never any loose ends. Well, of course when there were loose ends it was always handled in the next twelve and a half or twenty five. Until the next time.

Seriously. Great stuff the stories told to auditors. I used to tell people I was regging for training that auditing was a surprisingly aesthetic activity. Of course it was! Creativity to the Nth.
 

R6Basic

Patron Meritorious
I agree Paul. Even at lower levels we get some of this kind of stuff. PCs assume that the meter is telling them that what they just said is true. Sadly the auditor knows this isn't true, but sits there not evaluating.



PCs seem to hobby horse their favorite section of the time track. Such as every chain resolves with a Marcabian incident. I had PCs I could predict exactly how many E/S and where on the TT the E/S would be because the PC used the same five or six lifetimes to resolve every incident. As a PC I'm pretty sure I did this myself. Yep got a result on expectation I suspect.

One thing Hubbard got right for sure. The mind is a powerful force. :yes:

The two high-lighted areas I can very much agree with. I was never above mid grade 0 but I could always run "back track" events.

One thing I kept "running into" was this order of monks that would study this three D symbol to get a greater sense of what the universe was all about. By the time I dreamed that up my nettle would float. And if my nettle floated it must have been a real incident!
 
Last edited:

FoTi

Crusader
Good Twin, I remember when I got up to attest to completing the HSDC, I said that I thought auditing was a most creative and aesthetic activity as well, at least it seemed that way to me.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Paul, did Date Locate not exist before 1978?

That wonderful bulletin didn't. :). I say "wonderful" because it made the procedure so easy, with nice drills to do, and even little lists of things to check if the thing didn't blow (with a blowdown) and F/N on cue.

The dating drills, this lifetime and whole track, were in the Book of E-Meter Drills from, er, 1961 I think. I don't know if dating was done in that manner before those meter drills were issued.

Locating? "Where was it?" must have been an auditing question since the 50s, but worrying it down to within an inch of its life? Dunno. Someone else will have to answer that one.

Paul
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Another self-fulfilling prophecy comes from "being exposed to the OT materials before you are ready".

I used to have actual streaks of terror and dread if I thought I ran into OT 3 material. I used to call up people and tell them I am restimulated and what can I do? I used to do locationals on my self, hyperventilate, and have panic attacks over it.

That's because I was told, and I believed, that I had huge amounts of very dangerous "charge" in my mind that, like a kill-switch, I could set it off accidentally if I was exposed too soon, and die.

I was told, and I believed, that the OT levels were going to safely release that booby-trap in my mind that aliens had placed there to keep me imprisoned on this planet. And so, until I did my OT Levels, I was always at risk. Especially as a "Clear".

Funny thing is, when I quit believing in "case" as defined by L Ron Hubbard, I no longer got any of those feelings when I became "exposed" to the OT levels.

L Ron Hubbard's vicious use of these installed phobias on Scientologists is all part of his onslaught to suck everything of value out of anyone he possibly could. And he did not care at all about the suffering he put people through.

If he did care, he would have stopped it.

But he didn't.

This is basically why L Ron Hubbard was a piece of shit as a human being.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Thanks Alanzo. Interestingly, although Hubbard rolled out the pneumonia claptrap in the OT3 pack, he also said that there was little danger of colliding with that stuff casewise at lower levels. The whole "Clears are at risk" marketing trip didn't start before 1978. Exactly when, though, I don't know. Wasn't it with the release of an issue about NOTs in late 1978 or so?

Paul
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Its well established that general exposure to upper levels like OT 3
does not cause problems. Example OT 3 posted in LA times. However
I know a couple of people adversely effected by such premature exposure.
Heard reference to others.

Apparently premature exposure can give problems in handling PCs. I've
been told. This may or may not be an example of self fullfilling prophesy.
 

FoTi

Crusader
The idea of running into data from OT 3 used to terrify me as well.

Sometime early on in my Scientology career, someone told me a story about an auditor and PC in session......the PC accidentally ran into OT3 data without being ready for it....the auditor wasn't OT3 either and wasn't ready for it....the PC got sick and died and the auditor dropped dead as well. :omg: The auditor followed the PC and they both picked up bodies near one another and when they got old enough, they both came back into Scientology. It was told as if the auditor stuck with the PC until the PC could get back in session again. It was told to me as a true story from someone who had done OT3 that I trusted and I believed him. I have no idea where he got that story, but it scared me and from then on I insisted on having an auditor that was already OT3 incase I accidentally tripped on some data from OT3.....that way, at least my auditor would know and wouldn't drop dead on me and hopefully would be able to help me out of it so that I would not drop dead from getting auditing. :nailbiting:

The first tape I ever heard in Scientology was RJ67 and one of the first things I learned about Scientology was how dangerous the level of OT3 was, so I was pretty scared of it. :ohmy: After my intro session, my auditor told me that his father had just dropped dead of a heart attack at Thanksgiving Dinner and he was in the middle of OT3. :omg: That was really scary to me....it horrified me, actually.....I thought it was horribly dangerous to drop one's body and be stuck in the middle of that level. It scared me so much that I was terrified to ever get to the point of getting onto OT3. I was in Scientology for 30 years and was terrified to ever get onto the OT Levels....I was afraid I might die in the middle of OT3. :nailbiting: At the same time I got the idea that it was of the highest importance that I get through OT3 as quickly as possible and get above it so that I never could become the adverse effect of it, but I was too scared to even get near it. :nervous:

I was so frozen in fear in the first couple of weeks in Scientology from the OT3 story and the fact that my mother suddenly then came up with cancer :omg: and my uncle ended up getting shock treatment for parkinsons :omg: and all of these things happened at the same time and I wondered if I was being punished somehow for being in Scientology. The reg told me that Scientology would handle anything, so I thought that if I got auditing and got up the Bridge to OT, I would never get cancer, or end up like my uncle so, I threw away my college education (I only had one more semester to graduate) and spent all my tuition on auditing. I threw away my friends who thought I'd lost my mind to be giving up school for Scientology and I threw away my family as well because I didn't know how to handle them. I also hocked my jewelry and sold my car to pay for auditing and left myself with no transportation to get to work. :faint: I obviously wasn't thinking too clearly....I was pretty much scared out of my wits and I really believed all that I was told that Scientology was the solution to it all and I would be safe if I could just get up the Bridge to OT where I could be cause over it all.

I received a couple hundred hours of auditing, which was a help to me, but after that I spend the next 30 years stuck in Scientology and my life went nowhere .... I was always close to broke and life became extremely rough at times and I didn't know if I would even survive it or die in the process. I became quite afraid of the wog world and couldn't stand working any kind of job that wasn't Scientology, which made it very hard to survive, since I could never manage to get to the point of being an interned auditor that could audit and make a decent living. So, I was scared and frustrated for 30 years, many times regretting that I quit college and I lived with a lot of false ideas from Scientology that I thought were true and it gave me a wierd uncomfortable life with a lot of fear. :nailbiting::nervous:

I never could understand why I was in so much fear all the time. It wasn't until I gave up on trying to do Scientology and moved out of Clearwater that the fear started to lessen. Then the more that I read online and here on ESMB, the more things started to clear up. It's taken me a long time to gradually peal the onion of Scientology and get back to being able to even be around people who are not Scientologists. It's almost like it's some kind of cultural shock to just be in the real world after being involved in Scientology for 30 years.

I was married to a couple of people who had done OT3 and I was scared to death that they might mutter something in their sleep....some data about OT3, and if I heard it, I might die. Kind of stressful. :nervous:

Seems like LRH did a really good job of creating the idea of a dangerous environment, physically and spiritually, to scare people into sticking to Scientology and putting their all into it so that they could hopefully reach a point of eternal safety. It sure worked on me. I was well terrified and obedient. Sometime I felt like I was almost frozen solid with fear and gave them most of my money to try to secure a better future for myself, while I left myself poor and without the education and degree that I could have used to have a decent income. And in my fear I did a lot of goofy things that I wouldn't have ordinarily done and treated people in rather indecent ways that I would not have ordinarily treated them.

After I read the OT3 data online and it didn't kill me, it resolved that fear, but I was stuck in that fear for 30 years because of the lies that were put forth from LRH and the CoS promo about OT3 and kept alive by others who had done the level, who knew that it wouldn't kill anybody, but kept it a secret.

Scientology is a fear mongering organization. It seems like their product is people who are totally obedient to the CoS and who are terrified to disobey the CoS in any way, shape or form, for fear of being eternally damned spiritually. It's grossly evil.

:soapbox:
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Wow

The idea of running into data from OT 3 used to terrify me as well......
:soapbox:

Thanks for telling your story and going into detail. I have told people that fear of OT III data and getting sick works the same as voodoo. If you believe in it, you can be the effect of it.

Expectation, imagination, belief, trust in authority. All pieces of the trap.
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was also terrified of having 'ot iii' revelaed to me. When I read about it on-line at ARS I think I had a small panic attack, followed by some anxiety and eventually the realization and slate-wipe that everything in $cientology is a lie. Not just one or two things, not ten things, not a thousand things: EVERYTHING! Of course I now realize that this isn't true, everything clam is just a shade of grey bullshit with pieces of plaguerized this and that sprinkled throughout. :yes:
 

billheichert

Patron with Honors
I aggree. When a person does the OT 3 process in clay, he is getting himself ready to copy THAT in his sessions. Whether or not the ot 3 incident is correct (I think it is a con), the person WILL "find" bt's, and "blow" them per what was imprinted on him when he did it in clay and drilled it. I think that the ot 3 incident only "exisits" for those who have convinced themselves in the ot 3 courseroom that it exists. With the years of build-up to get to ot 3, the secrecy, the huge sums paid, the "invitation" to the level, the security bond, etc. the person WILL make it up and do it. It's a con. It's a crime. The hoax of the meter "validating" the exixstence of the bt's and the blowing of said bt's keeps the person going. The idea that you can not speak about the advanced levels even to fellow advanced students is a crock. hubbard just didn't want anyone actually looking at what they were doing. additionally the requirement that on the advanced levels you must attend course everyday & or audit everyday, serves to keep one from really looking at what is actually happening to him (he is being fleeced and conned). And of cousre with the time a person needs to work to pay for the level, the drive time to get to course, the time on cousre, the required sleep time, there is barley enough tome to see one's friends or family or to do anything other than the advanced levels. The blinders are on permanently at this stage. I know as I wore them all throught ot1 - ot 5.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Thanks for telling your story and going into detail. I have told people that fear of OT III data and getting sick works the same as voodoo. If you believe in it, you can be the effect of it.

Expectation, imagination, belief, trust in authority. All pieces of the trap.

Yeh.....Scientology/Scientologists plant the false data and a person's imagination runs wild with it. I guess that's the way voodoo would work...just get the person to believe it and their own mind does the rest of making it true for the person. Beliefs are very powerful.

I remember working for a Scientologist who was further up the Bridge than I was....he told me that a misunderstood word could put one in the hospital. I believed that one too and became afraid of words. It seemed like I believed anyone who had more auditing or was further up the Bridge than I was.....I assumed they knew more than I did because they were higher on the Bridge than I was and had learned more data about the truth, or so I thought. In other words, they knew and I didn't. They were smart and I wasn't. So, I would take their word over my own experience and follow along like a good and ignorant little sheeple. I was in awe of those who had done the OT Levels....I thought they had such magical powers and could read my mind, etc. It seemed like they could, anyway and I read all the OT Success Stories in the Advance Mag and thought they were for real and people told me their stories/experiences and I even had a couple of experiences of my own that I couldn't explain, so I thought all 100% of what LRH wrote and what the CoS promoted was true......I believed and ate up whatever was written or put forth in Scientology or by other Scientologists. I guess I was a bit gullible. And....I did want to believe it was true. :eyeroll:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Note, the current 'shore story' popular amongst the 'technokrati' is that it's not *knowing* OTIII data that getcha; it's *running* it.

After all, they had to come up with something to explain why there were so few wogs falling over into pneumonia.

Zinj
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
PCs seem to hobby horse their favorite section of the time track. Such as every chain resolves with a Marcabian incident.


This is fairly common in Dianetics. In the early days it was known as the "wide-open case". The person is really and truly not up to the level of being able to run Dianetics on anything but a dub-in level, which is not at all. Continuing with them on this is a complete waste of time.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
That wonderful bulletin didn't. :). I say "wonderful" because it made the procedure so easy, with nice drills to do, and even little lists of things to check if the thing didn't blow (with a blowdown) and F/N on cue.

The dating drills, this lifetime and whole track, were in the Book of E-Meter Drills from, er, 1961 I think. I don't know if dating was done in that manner before those meter drills were issued.

Locating? "Where was it?" must have been an auditing question since the 50s, but worrying it down to within an inch of its life? Dunno. Someone else will have to answer that one.

Paul


It was developed about 1970 as a Flag-only action and exported later for the use of experienced auditors only. My own experience with it is that if the preclear is up to being able to date somethng this precisely on his own, but if he needs meter support to date for him then it is seldom worth the effort. However, I do know of exceptions to this.
 
Top