Self-Fulfilling Prophecies in Scientology Tech

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there must be more in the area of self-fulfilling prophecies buried in Scientology "standard tech."

Any offers?

Paul
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Wow! That was an eye opening story from the fear angle. I got to OT4. Didn't really have a fear of it, but my world was more of a desire to satisfy the great mystery of what it was (OT3). I looked at 1 and 2 as stops to get in my way to get to 3. Then just as I got to solo, the Sunshine R/D came out. Another stop. And was a POS it was. It was like an HQS course level process or something from Self Analysis. I will say that I was taken a little when I attested to finishing OT3 which is BTs gone only to move onto 4 which is BTs and drugs. I just attested to them being gone on 3 and now I'm back on 4 looking for more.

I thought the Sunshine RD was a POS and I was only a Clear.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Fear can easily be handled by the normal application of Hubbard's auditing tech. No problem.

Oh rilly?

i-shit-my-pants.jpg

 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
The location step of D/L puzzled me for years. I mean Time at least (supposedly) flows along at a constant speed and has done so since the beginning, so we can talk in terms of 'x' earth years ago or whatever. But in space there is no constant except the constant of continual change. Just counting up the number of directions in which one's body is moving while supposedly sitting still is enough to exhaust one. So how could one possibly locate a past location? Like, where was my cup of tea five minutes ago? On the desk with me? -No, because the earth has moved on from that location so it was in a spot in space five minutes ago. How can one possibly D/L it?

The only non-moving constant is in fact oneself. A thetan does not move in space. So "Where did it happen?" The only true answer is "Right here".

But that won't blow the charge, or is unlikely to.

After much pondering on this I decided the following. Since both space and time are illusions, and since space is a viewpoint of dimension - being viewed by oneself please note, and since the reactive mind resides in one's own mental space and not in the physical universe, then it sort of follows - and this applies to both Time and Space - we are locating things as they are located in the guy's reactive mind. Which is spread out over god knows how much space and time.

So one views from on'es present viewpoint of dimension to the viewpoint of dimension one had back then. Ditto for time. This is what allows those fantastic dates to read on the meter.

It is really not the physical universe date and location but one's mental universe date and location, and even though one could assert that it really is Phys Univ., it aint.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Yes indeed. Rilly.

Then why did I have my fear the whole time I was in Scientology, and only had it "handled" once I quit believing in "case" as defined by L Ron Hubbard?

Once my belief in Hubbard was gone, then his whole installed phobia of the OT levels was gone, too.

So if what you say is true, that Scientology handles "fear", then why did every Scientology process I ran for 16 years not handle it, but only made it worse?
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Bad C/Sing? Bad auditing? Not addressing what the PC wants handled? etc etc etc
The reason could be anything but the most common one in this case would be "No Auditing?" as in; the fear was never properly addressed.

I believe Leon is correct in saying that certain scientology processes can handle fear, as can other therapies. I still remember the day an agoraphobic walked out of her front door for the first time in 14 months.

Perhaps it was a "self-fulfilling prophecy" as *I* was 100% certain I could handle her fear with auditing and my enthusiasm was often contagious.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I thought the Sunshine RD was a POS and I was only a Clear.

It's an objective process. The idea is *immediately* after attesting clear while one is going WOW! one needs to get extroverted. If you do the Sun RD a day or week or year after attesting clear it's redundant because regular life has already run a locational on you.

Paul
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Yes, it's a very expensive self-audited Objective Process but very effective all the same (provided it's done as Paul described).
 

yon8008

Patron with Honors
The location step of D/L puzzled me for years. I mean Time at least (supposedly) flows along at a constant speed and has done so since the beginning, so we can talk in terms of 'x' earth years ago or whatever. But in space there is no constant except the constant of continual change. Just counting up the number of directions in which one's body is moving while supposedly sitting still is enough to exhaust one. So how could one possibly locate a past location? Like, where was my cup of tea five minutes ago? On the desk with me? -No, because the earth has moved on from that location so it was in a spot in space five minutes ago. How can one possibly D/L it?

The only non-moving constant is in fact oneself. A thetan does not move in space. So "Where did it happen?" The only true answer is "Right here".

But that won't blow the charge, or is unlikely to.

After much pondering on this I decided the following. Since both space and time are illusions, and since space is a viewpoint of dimension - being viewed by oneself please note, and since the reactive mind resides in one's own mental space and not in the physical universe, then it sort of follows - and this applies to both Time and Space - we are locating things as they are located in the guy's reactive mind. Which is spread out over god knows how much space and time.

So one views from on'es present viewpoint of dimension to the viewpoint of dimension one had back then. Ditto for time. This is what allows those fantastic dates to read on the meter.

It is really not the physical universe date and location but one's mental universe date and location, and even though one could assert that it really is Phys Univ., it aint.

This matches up very well with my experience. I remember listening to the first ACC and a lecture talked about an experimental process "Where is the past located?" It sounded interesting so I started looking and I found a spot that was indicating, but it was confusing... it seemed to be about 3 feet behind me, but "inside my body" at the same time. It was the first time I discovered that my mental space did not correspond with the physical universe, and was the starting point for discovering that my mental space has more than 3 perpendicular spatial dimensions, and that I really understood "Space is a viewpoint of dimension". When dimensions get confused/collapsed there is charge that holds them that way. Locating and LOOKING releases that kind of charge.

The location that we are looking for is NOT physical universe, as you indicated, but based on our own viewpoint and mental dimensions/spaces.

After this experience the PDC lectures that talked about inverted mental spaces made much more sense.

Also, if you look at SOP 6 or SOP 8, you see that people who can't perform step 3 (spacation) will not understand these things, it's not real to them, continue going through the steps to find a step that they can perform and then bring them up the line.
 

Pliny Younger

Patron with Honors
It's an objective process. The idea is *immediately* after attesting clear while one is going WOW! one needs to get extroverted. If you do the Sun RD a day or week or year after attesting clear it's redundant because regular life has already run a locational on you.

Paul

Well that makes sense.
 

yon8008

Patron with Honors
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there must be more in the area of self-fulfilling prophecies buried in Scientology "standard tech."

Any offers?

Paul

Paul, if you look at the Q's (prelogics) and the Axioms of Scientology - I think we see pretty strongly that the theory of Scientology supports "a Thetan gets what he postulates/considers" = everything in Scientology operates through self-fulfillment.

The key is to learn exactly how this all works, though experience and controlled experimentation. Isn't that what auditing does -> gets you to review your past 'experiments' in postulating, by seeing the effects and tracing them back to the causes: the postulates where you decided certain conditions were real or to use certain thought patterns?

The other half is creating experiences where we can give ourselves permission to change our postulates/ to change our mind. Imagine getting someone to agree to touch a frying pan ever 60 seconds - it starts out cold, and you gradually heat it up... at some point a person will say "NO I CHANGE MY MIND, I WON'T DO IT ANY MORE!" As many here have discovered there is a certain wonderful release when certain agreements are broken - when someone DECIDES to leave the CoS, for example. Similarly, often it takes the pain of repeated experiences to bring one up to "Need of Change" and "Demand for Improvement"... and then the formulation of a new idea/escape plan/decision to leave brings "HOPE" ... and the instant a friend or an environment creates an opening ("Help") that plan can be executed - leading to the RELEASE (mental/emotional/physical) and "Recognition" of being separate from the charge/church, and then they find this board and have COMMUNICATION and PERCEPTION and get ORIENTED for the new lives. And then upon review of what has happened and hearing the stories of others they gain UNDERSTANDING and ENLIGHTENMENT. (You have had the enlightenment haven't you?)

More on the Scale of Awareness Characteristics here:
http://freezoneamerica.com/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/appendix_a/scales.htm#AWARENESS Sca


What is most interesting is that Scientology explained that it is based on the axiom, but then applied to the specific common/group postulates/agreements that are common on Earth today. The complexity comes from trying to figure out what you have to do so that a person is willing to DISAGREE with what they currently believe to be reality - and so CHOOSE/POSTULATE a new reality and allow that to come into manifestation.

If your room is messy and you won't clean it... how bad does it need to get before you DECIDE that "the effort to clean it and keep it clean is worth the pay off of having a clean room?" - Creative processing on mocking up heroic efforts, or GITA on effort and clean rooms, or "What problem could a messy room be a solution to?" all might help. But it's a self-fulfilling prophecy if you HAVE a dirty room, you are POSTULATING a dirty room, and the only way to get a clean room is to CHANGE YOUR MIND about something (either increase the value of a clean room, decide the effort isn't so great, or decide that "it's not all that dirty after all").

If there is ANY change in your life it is the result of YOU CHANGING YOUR MIND about something.

If you DECIDE that auditing is a valid tool for helping you change your mind, then you can be right about that.

If you DECIDE that auditing doesn't work, it won't... until your auditor helps you spot the hidden standard with a question like "what would need to happen for you to know that auditing works?"

If you DECIDE that you can change your mind without auditing, YOU CAN!

If you DECIDE/Postulate/Consider that your postulates/considerations have no effect on reality, then that will be true for you as long as you maintain that consideration.

Most people would die before they released their super-powers, which is why we don't see many supermen and superwomen. But sometimes you do hear about some incredible miraculous occurrence "it was a surge of adrenaline" etc. It's all about learning how to control our postulates, stop the automatic postulate/agreement machines/entities (that we postulated in the first place).

Its up to each of us to figure out the rules for how to get what we want. And when we get it, to figure out we want next. Happy Creating!
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
Paul, In reference to your OP. I've spent some time considering this too. The sticking point for me accepting it as more than a chance occurrence has always been the many times when a PC or pre-OT is completely flummoxed/surprised/astounded at the result achieved. Instances where there's no way the PC was expecting that particular EP or result. Your thoughts?

That has been my general thought. Quite a bit of the "wins", "successes" or whatever may well be at least partially suggestion - but there are those sessions where things happened that were utterly unexpected. They're perhaps not a majority - but not a rarity either.

I remember spewing up in the in the middle of a FPRD session at something that seemed so utterly sick that I do not think I would have imagined it if I had tried.

Nick
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Then why did I have my fear the whole time I was in Scientology, and only had it "handled" once I quit believing in "case" as defined by L Ron Hubbard?

Once my belief in Hubbard was gone, then his whole installed phobia of the OT levels was gone, too.

So if what you say is true, that Scientology handles "fear", then why did every Scientology process I ran for 16 years not handle it, but only made it worse?


I am quite unable to answer your question without having more data. I would need to go over your folders and do DofP interviews etc etc etc.

But just offhand - just a thousand mile thumsuck - seeing as how you blew a lot of charge on the realization that you never had any case in the first place, I would look into the possibility that you are a natural, always was, Clear.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I am quite unable to answer your question without having more data. I would need to go over your folders and do DofP interviews etc etc etc.

But just offhand - just a thousand mile thumsuck - seeing as how you blew a lot of charge on the realization that you never had any case in the first place, I would look into the possibility that you are a natural, always was, Clear.

That is disgusting evaluation, Leon. Especially as such a state as "Natural Clear" is very iffy in the first place.

Paul
 
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