A valid point
There's a great deal that Hubbard said that is complete bollocks. But some things in Scn are very useful, some things are slightly useful. It's not an all-or-nothing scene. Most people who have done them thoroughly will say they benefited from doing the lower grades; the same people might say the upper levels not so much. Personally I feel I benefited from doing OT II and OT III and feel the procedures are worth doing even though Hubbard's theory for them is utter twaddle. As I said, it's not black and white.
Paul
DOF,
In the final analysis Flintrock does have a valid point.
I read all of the posts here, including the lawnmower analogy. I don't see it quite as cut and dry as that, but, ultimately it comes down to does it work or not.
As I see it ... a valid comparison could be to a martial arts academy. There are some martial arts schools that are known as "belt mills" that turn out students who can go thru the motions but really don't know much, can't do much, and are liable to get their asses kicked in the real world inspite of having been awarded a black belt. Other martial arts academies have better reps ... their students routinely win tournaments, their students are respectful and want to be there all the time, belts are only awarded when there is genuine competence demonstrated in both knowledge and application, and, no matter how big an attacker is in the real world, if he is untrained, any of the students who are green belt or better will prevail. In Scientology, I'm sure that some orgs have a better reputation than others as well, and then there is the matter of freezone/independent/offshoot evolving to a somewhat different tech as opposed to Cof$. Now, setting aside the money aspect of Cof$, and setting aside some of the more rediculous claims that involve perfection (such as absolute perfect memory) or the EP claimed for OTVIII on the 70's grade chart, or even 100% perfection with respect to ANY aspect of OT ability ... A workable standard for OT would be this ... just like a blackbelt from the martial arts acadamy with the good rep, where belts are really really earned, competence is well demonstrated including in application, the school has an excellent rep for turning out students that are repspectful, students really WANT to spend time there, and even the greenbelts could kick the asses of anyone who is not trained ...
an OT would be to the non OT as the black belt would be to the no-martial-arts training guy in the following areas ...
*memory, both short term and long term ... numbers, names, dates, quotes, significances, faces, other images, etc.
*intelligence ... ability to learn quickly, understand new concepts, etc.
*spotting other people's intentions regardless of their verbage
*ease of communicating, including the ability to simplify
*ability to spot sources and non sources for virtually anything
*ability to stay calm and effective regardless of circumstance, especially in
situations where the non Scien. is falling apart
*ability to spot trouble/problems before they happen and avoid them, especially in circumstances where the untrained/unprocessed would not
*ability to operate unencumbered by the bad habbits and stupid considerations that plague most people such as procrastination, a constant second guessing of one's self, internal Q&A, indecision, fear for no good cause, impulsiveness, lack of ability to focus, lack of ability to stay in present time when desired, etc.
*ability to have MEST easily ... finances, time, decent living quarters, and all your gadgets WORKING ... in otherwords, your TV works, your car works, your stereo system works, your records don't have scratches, your clothes are clean, pressed, and not stained, your toilets flush without constantly having to jiggle the handle or go into the tank to stop the gurgling, the water in your sinks stop when you want it to ... as opposed to being surrounded by cars with doors that don't function normally, cracked windows, lawns that need mowing, sinks that need washers, toilets that need fixing, piles of paper everywhere in your house, general sloppiness and disrepair, dirty fingernails, unbrushed teeth, uncombed hair, etc.
*ability to operate by postulates ... that is, you decide something, it happens. You may have to make it happen, but, if you decide it, you DO make it happen. Very often you make a decision, you mock up your EP, and the obstacles that would hinder the non OT seem to fly out of the way and/or are jumped over easily or are otherwise overpowered/easily handled.
*at least SOME extraordinary ability that is there consistently ... for instance, knowing the instant the phone rings or better yet, the instant prior to the ring who is calling and what the communication is, or, if a stranger, the nature of the communication ... bill collector, salesman, wrong number, call for someone else in the house, someone trying to find out where his or her son or daughter is, etc. Or another extraordinary ability would be to instantly spot medical conditions in others or to be able to heal instantly by touch. Or perhaps you could almost always put the intention into someone to instantly call you, or perhaps it could be instantly knowing if those close to you were in danger or distress, or it could be a combination of those and/or other extraordinary abilities that are too numerous to mention, all of which come under the broad catagories of being able to perceive and to postulate.
My question to you, Paul, aka DOF ... for all of your time spent training and being processed, both within Cof$ and freezone ... with that as the standard for OT, where OT is to non OT what the black belt from the good martial arts acadamy is to the untrained individual ... COULD YOU LEGITIMATELY CLAIM TO BE OT BY THAT STANDARD????????????? DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE EITHER IN OR OUT OF Cof$/FREEZONE/INDEPENDENT FIELD WHO COULD LEGITIMATELY ATTEST TO OT BY THAT STANDARD?????????????????
My second question ... what is the point of OTIII as far as deriving freedom from overwhelm if the theory behind it (the Xenu story) is both bullshit and an overwhelming evaluation? I have posed the question before ... going with the LRH def. of a thetan ... no location in space except by consideration ... a BT would therefore be a being with some bits of his attention compulsively stuck on you or your body ... wouldn't it be of far greater significance where YOU have YOUR attention stuck, and couldn't the entire OTIII EP be achieved WITHOUT the Xenu story/overwhelming evaluation/LRH's case just by running various 4 flow processes on the subject of attention?
Pete