Sen. Xenophon calls for "cult watchdog" agency

A

Annonny

Guest
Well....if they don't find anything, they will just make it up, like they've done before. Since when does the CoS let truth stand in their way?

LRH spoke of "The Road to Truth",..... he just neglected to say that it didn't exist in the CoS.

That's exactly what worries me - I hope Xenophon knows what he is dealing with and taking precautions against the CoS.
 

the-ghostwhowalks

Patron with Honors
great post !

Dear Mystic, your bonafide spiritual petition has been duly received, noted, and approved. In the coming days (of 'this spiritual season') your wish has become our command.

It is our fervent & certain hope & trust you do not find the physical manifest nature of Mr. Xenophon's coming American counterpart to be a distraction. As being a woman carries with it certain unique & inherent spiritual qualities that are called for and necessary in the fulfillment of your (and our) ultimate Spiritual Aim.

Sincerely,
Buddha, GheeBus & Quan Yin

Co-signed by: THALES, SOCRATES, PLATO, ARISTOTLE: PLOTINUS, ST AUGUSTINE, ST ANSELM, ST AQUINAS, MACHIAVELLI, DESCARTES: HOBBES, SPINOZA, MALEBRANCHE, LOCKE, LEIBNIZ, BERKELEY, HUME, ROUSSEAU, KANT, FICHTE, HEGEL, KIERKEGUAARD, SHOPENHAUER, MILL, FREGE, RUSSELL, WITTGENSTEIN, HEIDEGGER, SARTE, and others too numerous too mention here.

Future Historical Footnote: Marx declined to sign up or on. As did Jack the Ripper.

Absloutely bloody brilliant ! :clap:
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
And you know somewhere IAS dreges are chasing people down to "brief" them and tell them they should re-mortgage their homes to handle the "suppression" happening in Australia. :puke:
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
The Government has expressed doubts over its constitutional powers to introduce a watchdog body.

But what does it mean by this. Sounds a bit contradictory.
Nick is in federal parliament. Like the USA, the states have plenary power to govern everything! But the federal government's power is limited to those areas granted to it in the constitution.

However, like the USA, the federal government CAN act in areas not within its constitutional power where the states refer their powers to the Commonwealth. So, there are ways around it.

Also:

I love Nick Xenophon. I just do.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
I bet the CoS is digging real hard into Xenophon's background to find some dirt. I just hope they don't manage to shut him up, like they did to Bob Minton. I'm sure OSA is working overtime right now, trying to creat a little "Xenophon Freakout".
I'm pretty sure they've looked and found nothing. As I recall, they made a statement about Nick in March 2010 or thereabouts to the effect that he's a good man, but he's being manipulated by the evil psychs (Professor Patrick McGorry).

Nick is taking on the clubs industry in Australia, battling their use of poker machines. That industry is much more capable than OSA of shutting people up - and they haven't managed to shut Nick up for the 3 years he has been in federal parliament, plus however many he was in state parliament before that as the "No Pokies" senator.
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Absolutely if cults can use the government to shield them under the umbrella of religious freedom then the government should be responsible to shield the public from them.

Agreed. The church, in spite of it's internal chaplain, qual, etc. doesn't really have a needed and arms-legnth ombudsman.

I bet the CoS is digging real hard into Xenophon's background to find some dirt. I just hope they don't manage to shut him up, like they did to Bob Minton. I'm sure OSA is working overtime right now, trying to creat a little "Xenophon Freakout".

They likely can't find anything and I hope Sen. Xenophon is alert to the possibility of them trying to set him up in light of that.

Thank you Sen Xenophon and all the Aussies who helped make this happen.
:yes::yes::yes:
 

Sydney

Patron
All I gotta say as an Australian "XENOPHON FOR 1ST PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF AUSTRALIA!!!"

Wait wait, we should change our name to OZ, then the acronym would be ROO!!

OMG OMG and instead of a President we could declare him "Wizard!!!"

XENU for 1st wizard of OZ!!!

Oh and back on topic,

CULL THE CULT CULL THE CULT CULL THE CULT!!

:happydance:
 

Mystic

Crusader
Dear Mystic, your bonafide spiritual petition has been duly received, noted, and approved. In the coming days (of 'this spiritual season') your wish has become our command.

It is our fervent & certain hope & trust you do not find the physical manifest nature of Mr. Xenophon's coming American counterpart to be a distraction. As being a woman carries with it certain unique & inherent spiritual qualities that are called for and necessary in the fulfillment of your (and our) ultimate Spiritual Aim.

Sincerely,
Buddha, GheeBus & Quan Yin

Co-signed by: THALES, SOCRATES, PLATO, ARISTOTLE: PLOTINUS, ST AUGUSTINE, ST ANSELM, ST AQUINAS, MACHIAVELLI, DESCARTES: HOBBES, SPINOZA, MALEBRANCHE, LOCKE, LEIBNIZ, BERKELEY, HUME, ROUSSEAU, KANT, FICHTE, HEGEL, KIERKEGUAARD, SHOPENHAUER, MILL, FREGE, RUSSELL, WITTGENSTEIN, HEIDEGGER, SARTE, and others too numerous too mention here.

Future Historical Footnote: Marx declined to sign up or on. As did Jack the Ripper.

Jack definitely needs ripping.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I think that government involvement in personal affairs is a slippery slope. But, having said that, it's my observation that most laws and local rules come into being because of problems that were observed.

Remember in school when the teacher would make some rule or something and it would be because of one or two kids and the rest of us would have to suffer or put up with the new restriction?

That's how most laws are and that's how most watchdog agencies and other things are.

There is ALWAYS a danger of things like this leading to a nanny or big brother state. We often hear weird news stories of governments taking draconian action instead of using judgment against someone who didn't really do much of anything.

An example:

It used to be that nobody did much for the rights of children, then it turned into a huge huge overkill thing. People lost their businesses, as they were accused of having Satanic rituals and doing stuff to the kids. It was all lies, witchhunting and hysteria.

OTOH, it used to be that no one would stand up for a child or that it rarely happened. Such as when I got molested. I had the guy's name!! But, noooo....child abuse wasn't FASHIONABLE then. So they did nothing.

What we need is a happy medium.

Another example:

I sure hope this one isn't true. But I read a couple years ago that some guy who had a humorous cartoon porn pic of the Simpsons got arrested in Australia for child porn. Never mind the fact that it's A) A cartoon and B) the Simpsons have been around so long that even Maggie is technically "Of age".

So yeah, I worry about a nanny state and with damn good reason.

But in the end, I would support a cult watchdog agency. I'm sick of there being horrific abuses that are clearly illegal and the government doesn't do anything. Why don't they? They were sure quick to go in and completely bungle Waco. And shoot a woman in the back at Ruby Ridge.

In the end, we have no perfect solutions. If we ask for help and get it, we may get more things that can cause problems later. But if we don't, then people imprisoned in the RPF or in other cults may never get any help or support or have their plight reach the public's attention.

So I'll take the imperfect solution, please.
 

smartone

My Own Boss
Thanks Panda Termindt, Jump and Cherished for the explanation. Why do these governments make things soooo complicated, sheesh.

We have a flipping referendum coming up next month and nobody can wrap their minds around it enough to vote yes or no :nervous:
 

mnql1

Patron Meritorious
The website of Lyon Webzine reports that a delegation from the French cult-monitoring agency MIVILUDES is travelling from France to Canberra this weekend at the invitation of the Senate of Australia.

As mentioned in the OP, it was reported earlier this year that Senator Xenophon is recommending that Australia establish an agency similar to France's MIVILUDES.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
The website of Lyon Webzine reports that a delegation from the French cult-monitoring agency MIVILUDES is travelling from France to Canberra this weekend at the invitation of the Senate of Australia.

As mentioned in the OP, it was reported earlier this year that Senator Xenophon is recommending that Australia establish an agency similar to France's MIVILUDES.
Interesting! (and I think a step in the right direction too, hopefully other nations take heed as well, especially in North America as this society has bred some doozies).

Go go go Auzzies!

:cheers:
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
The website of Lyon Webzine reports that a delegation from the French cult-monitoring agency MIVILUDES is travelling from France to Canberra this weekend at the invitation of the Senate of Australia.

As mentioned in the OP, it was reported earlier this year that Senator Xenophon is recommending that Australia establish an agency similar to France's MIVILUDES.

It is to appear at a conference next Wednesday at Parliament House - see http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25043-CIFS-CONFERENCE-Nov2nd-Parliament-House-Canberra

Any folks who would like to go and haven't registered yet should do so.:yes:

And may I suggest you take your recording devices so we can have much vid uploaded for all to share - there will be many interesting speakers.:happydance:
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
It is to appear at a conference next Wednesday at Parliament House - see http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25043-CIFS-CONFERENCE-Nov2nd-Parliament-House-Canberra

Any folks who would like to go and haven't registered yet should do so.:yes:

And may I suggest you take your recording devices so we can have much vid uploaded for all to share - there will be many interesting speakers.:happydance:

Right on, Scooter. Professor Pat McGorry will also be a speaker, as well as Senators Boyce and Xenophon. Should be a good show!
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
We're looking forward to going and listening to some great speakers. :thumbsup:

Great to catch up with our friends too :yes::yes:
 

mnql1

Patron Meritorious
A first report about MIVILUDES president Georges Fenech's visit to Australia has appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Economic climate a breeding ground for cults

by Leesha McKenny RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS
November 2, 2011

Global fears of economic or environmental upheaval feed the growth of gurus and damaging cults that prey on the weak, a visiting French government expert has warned.

Georges Fenech, president of France's Interministerial Mission for Monitoring and Combating Cultic Deviances, said it was working for greater international co-operation in dealing with sectarian abuses – with one in five French, or 12million people, affected in some way by a cult.

"We're going through an age where there are numerous crisis, whether it's financial, climatic, pandemic, and these create favourable basis where the gurus can work for their own benefit," he said.

The politician and former judge cited one instance where an Australian cult, the Order of St Charbel founded by the now-jailed "Little Pebble" William Kamm on the NSW South Coast, spread to France where members have since been imprisoned.

"So that proves there are no borders for that kind of group and that's why it's so important to have this kind of exchange and common vision between countries," he said.

The French government has a history of taking a strict line on monitoring what it considers negative “cultlike movements”. It has previously released a list of more than 170 groups deemed cults on the basis they met one or more of 10 characteristics.

"Some of these organisations anyway are huge organisations, like the Church of Scientology and Jehovah's Witnesses, and of course these people are here [in Australia] as well."

Mr Fenech said the French branch of the Church of Scientology, which the French government did not call a religion, will return to court this week to appeal its 2009 conviction on charges related to illegal pharmacology and organised fraud.

But Australia was part of the Anglo Saxon world that had a very different approach – more of "a laissez faire attitude of tolerance towards all religion," he said.

"In France we do respect all religions but at the same time we do not tolerate that under the aegis of some kind of church some types of behaviour take place, and we confront these."

Mr Fenech said all religions had the potential to foster cultic deviances. His organisation had examined sub-cults established within the Catholic church.

"We can't leave this problem to private initiative because the problem is too serious and too difficult. It's just too much for associations to deal with it," he said.

Mr Fenech, who said he will address the federal Senate today, was invited to deliver the keynote presentation at a conference entitled "Cults in Australia: Facing the Realities" co-hosted by Liberal senator Sue Boyce and independent senator Nick Xenophon.

Speakers also include 2010 Australian of the Year, Professor Patrick McGorry, and Tom Sackville, president of the European Federation of Centres of Research and Information on Sects or Cults.

Mr Xenophon said it was vital that Australia look at laws similar to those of France that provide protection for victims of mental manipulation.

“Right now some cults and groups here in Australia are getting away with unacceptable conduct and this is partly because our laws have failed to recognise the way people are controlled and coerced," he said.

There were about 3000 cults operating in Australia, Cult Information and Family Support NSW president Ros Hodgins said.

"We are asking that parliamentarians support measures to address the abusive groups we know as cults that have no accountability and cause psychological harm," she said.

"Australia has not yet taken these issues as seriously as other countries, especially Europe."
 

mnql1

Patron Meritorious
Jehovah's Witnesses 'a cruel cult
by Chris Johnston
The Age, March 15, 2013
Independent senator Nick Xenophon has renewed calls for a national cult-busting agency.
(...)
"At the moment groups like the Jehovah's Witnesess and Scientology are subsidised by the taxpayer," Senator Xenophon said. He said the French government's cultbusting agency Miviludes had been effective.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Jehovah's Witnesses 'a cruel cult
by Chris Johnston
The Age, March 15, 2013

The French have shown how you do this thing. Any government who hides behind the rhetoric of "too hard" could say that just as well about spousal abuse or child abuse. What politicians act upon or otherwise shows what they value. It's nice that Nick Xenophon cares about cultic abuse. It would be nicer if Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott could say the same.

They should all watch Tiziano's video IMHO!
 

Sydney

Patron
A good article, I was particularly annoyed by the Australian spokesman for Jehovahs Witnesses comments I actually know Vince met him on a number of occaisions, sounds like he's playing too much the lawyer In this case to flat out lie the way he did claiming shunning is "just a myth"
I know of several instances where he was present personally at people been reproved and disfellowshipped.:no:
 
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