Setting the Record Straight

This is exactly the reason why I stopped being a scientologist.

If you give a scientologist your trust, they will betray that trust. It's not a matter of if but a matter of when.

I contacted Aida with the honest intent of getting auditing from her and this is how she repays me.

Frankly, given your history, I think she treated you with uncommon courtesy.

Just as no pc must accept auditing from an auditor, neither does any auditor owe auditing to a pc. The auditor/pc relationship is one built on trust & respect. How have you ever earned either? :eyeroll:

My suggestion: go ask Rathbun to audit you.

You two seem to have a lot in common. :yes:


Mark A. Baker :)
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
Someone here said TS/Mr Fabian is Neil Warren...Is that actually so? Isn't that the guy who was stalking B Schwarz and just screaming at the women on a.r.s?

What's with the misogyny? Not only smacks of OSA ness but of MISOGYNISTIC OSAness.

misogyny is just another word for little pee pee.
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
This is exactly the reason why I stopped being a scientologist.

Misterfabian, might I also suggest that you gather any records you have of payments sent you by the Church of Scientology or other entitites, and instructions given you to commit the crimes of slander, defamation and libel. If you do not maintain records, you should start doing so, as you can sue the Church of Scientology for this, which will give you some compensation for the time and money you lost pursuing it based on false claims.

When Tory and the others take you to court, these records will be helpful to you to prove that the source of this problem was not you, personally, but entities of the Church were behind it. These are, in fact, the true people who have been using and abusing you.
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Lone Star,

You say
So, as a relative newcomer to the insanity of all things OSA/Ex-Scn/message board action, I am trying to reverse engineer this latest OP and am trying to figure out what the exact written target would be. What's the program?

Is it just to tie up critics in useless chatter? What does that do? I don't get what great products he is getting that anyone would be writing commendations for. How does this inane activity forward the aims of Scientology?

I've posted this many, many times, but since you're new---I'll re-post it. OSA has 3 main goals here on the Net:

1) Distract off of *anything* HOT. Yesterday, Tony Ortega posted
these videos from Mike Rinder:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runni...er_scientology_former_spokesman_interview.php

That's just ONE they'd want distraction from.

2) Degrade any and ALL critics they hate.
"Truthseeker" has done this...so why not re-drag it all up?
(They no doubt need to get their "Stats" UP)

3) Divide and Conquer---slime the area totally.
Again, TS did this, and frankly, this is one more feeble
attempt (And EPIC FAIL) at doing this.

OSA's actions are NEVER "Sane". That's where people get
confused :confused2: Why would they do *that*?
'Cause they are NUTS____And running on programs
written by an insane man. PERIOD.

Good luck to you. I hope this helps some.

My best :rose:

Tory/Magoo
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Lone Star,

You say


I've posted this many, many times, but since you're new---I'll re-post it. OSA has 3 main goals here on the Net:

1) Distract off of *anything* HOT. Yesterday, Tony Ortega posted
these videos from Mike Rinder:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runni...er_scientology_former_spokesman_interview.php

That's just ONE they'd want distraction from.

2) Degrade any and ALL critics they hate.
"Truthseeker" has done this...so why not re-drag it all up?
(They no doubt need to get their "Stats" UP)

3) Divide and Conquer---slime the area totally.
Again, TS did this, and frankly, this is one more feeble
attempt (And EPIC FAIL) at doing this.

OSA's actions are NEVER "Sane". That's where people get
confused :confused2: Why would they do *that*?
'Cause they are NUTS____And running on programs
written by an insane man. PERIOD.

Good luck to you. I hope this helps some.

My best :rose:

Tory/Magoo

Oooops....you misread the name on the post you're replying to Tory. That was Sindy. I posted a reply to her. But thanks for the info! :thumbsup:
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
(ahem)

Well, "MasterFableTeller" are you going to communicate with Tori?


Can you communicate with a being?

Tori has opened the door...not many people would do so to someone who has campaigned against their reputation...and done so in such a vile manner as you have.


You need to talk with her. It's for your eternity's sake.

Hey, MF (MisterFabian)...
Got Confront?

Note: An entire day has gone by and Mister :bs: Artist
has not called. He won't, he can't.....well, he CAN...but he has to get
out of the clutches of *someone*.

Only the shadow knows who....Your shadow, TS. Stop laying down
and being a floor mat for them. Why? Who makes you feel like this
is "on purpose"? Or "Good for mankind"? :pfft: WTFU.

:rose:

Tory/Magoo
(818) 588-3044
 

Lure Rob & Hyde

Patron with Honors
Setting the Record Straight







I feel that it is time that I set the record straight regarding myself.

I’ve already shucked the title of “Scientologist” earlier on this message board and I feel it’s time to go all the way.

I feel that honesty is the best policy at his point. This way if I’m totally honest about my situation and OSA can no longer hurt my reputation by forwarding the lie that I’m OSA.

Blah blah blah blah............................................................................

But I’m not worried, if I did, I’m sure the good members of ESMB will remind me. :eyeroll:


Tim

Ughh! As long as you use words like " Xing the Ark" , "PTS" (there is no such thing or ever was but only a mind control mechanism by con man Hubbard)
"3rd dynamic" ( which means "you are in a trance and your freedom are those slave shackles we put on you "by the cult ) etc. all adds up to you speak with forked tongue paleface!

How about you saying some truth like Hubbard was a greedy crook, scammer and a cunning opportunist with no conscience or remorse about the lives he ruined and tragedy he caused to so many unwary people.
Dont' forget wife beater, abandoner of his children and deadbeat dad too. This would make you more real to me at least.
I hate to feed you a "cognition" but my experience with your cult-minded sort is that your kind have to start somewhere to converse with proper and real"SPs" like myself.
Can you re-write that post without the cult speak in it?
That would be a start I think unless you are addressing it only to those who are still trapped by that Hubbardian thought hypnotic process.!
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
Ughh! As long as you use words like " Xing the Ark" , "PTS" (there is no such thing or ever was but only a mind control mechanism by con man Hubbard)
"3rd dynamic" ( which means "you are in a trance and your freedom are those slave shackles we put on you by the cult ) etc. all adds up to you speak with forked tongue paleface!

How about you saying some truth Hubbard was a greedy crook, scammer and a cunning opportunist with no conscience or remorse about the lives he ruined and tragedy he caused to so many unwary people.
Dont' forget wife beater, abandoner of his children and deadbeat dad too.
I hate to feed you a "cognition" but my experience with your cult-minded sort is that you have to start somewhere to converse with proper and real"SPs" like myself.
Can you re-write that post without the cult speak in it?
That would be a start I think unless you are addressing it only to those who are still trapped by that thought Hubbardian hypnotic process.!

Lure,

He is a sociopath. Sociopaths are more common in the population than you think. Emotions don't work with him and truth doesn't matter to him either, as telling the truth is a social convention based on respect of others and he cannot relate to others. He states whatever he wants to state, whether it is true or false, if it's what he wants or he thinks it helps his goals. Throwing barbs back & forth doesn't work. He is incapable of caring about anyone but himself and his desires and will feed off emotion of any kind. Others' emotions fascinate him because he cannot produce them, does not feel pangs of conscience like a normal person, does not have buttons, does not/cannot react emotionally or produce emotions and he likes to play with other people's emotions in a vampiric sort of way.

Stay detached. Think of a machine and you'll have a better understanding.

It's not something to get angry about, it just is.
 

Lure Rob & Hyde

Patron with Honors
Lure,

He is a sociopath. Sociopaths are more common in the population than you think. Emotions don't work with him and truth doesn't matter to him either, as telling the truth is a social convention based on respect of others and he cannot relate to others. He states whatever he wants to state, whether it is true or false, if it's what he wants or he thinks it helps his goals. Throwing barbs back & forth doesn't work. He is incapable of caring about anyone but himself and his desires and will feed off emotion of any kind. Others' emotions fascinate him because he cannot produce them, does not feel pangs of conscience like a normal person, does not have buttons, does not/cannot react emotionally or produce emotions and he likes to play with other people's emotions in a vampiric sort of way.

Stay detached. Think of a machine and you'll have a better understanding.

It's not something to get angry about, it just is.

Gottabrain,Thanks for your insight .
Don't be concerned about me as I was just baiting the hook to troll a troll .
If this guy can bring himself to say something not in praise of Hubbard just to look credible to play the part it would be a start as his programming would start to crack up.
He could then be going against the basic hypnotic cult command.
This would aproximate the world of hypocrisy he lives and breaths in and likely to set off a conflict that won't resolve till he questions his and his cohorts motives (doubt condition as they know it that really can never be accomplished the way hubbard wrote it.)
You are very correct about him being a machine" but there are many ways of throwing a wrench in it.
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
Gottabrain,Thanks for your insight .
Don't be concerned about me as I was just baiting the hook to troll a troll .
If this guy can bring himself to say something not in praise of Hubbard just to look credible to play the part it would be a start as his programming would start to crack up.
He could then be going against the basic hypnotic cult command.
This would aproximate the world of hypocrisy he lives and breathsin likely to set off a conflict that won't resolve till he questions his and his cohorts motives (doubt condition as they know it that really can never be accomplished the way hubbard wrote it.)
You are very correct about him being a machine" but there are many ways of throwing a wrench in it.

:biggrin: Okay then, I won't worry about you. :) I don't personally believe Scn made him this way (though it does produce sociopaths). I think he got into Scn to try to handle it. Sociopaths are not really like Hubbard's Anti-Social Personality.

One has to read between the lines. He has too much time for postings on the Internet. Perhaps what he said about being an illegal pc and reading books is correct and he is a hired tool of OSA. At any rate, he doesn't care about truth one way or the other, just about getting what he wants.

Oh, and if he is simply a sociopath, as I suspect, then the Scn programming won't stick anyway - he just enjoyed harassing people because of his fascination with others' ability to produce emotions. No societal programming sticks with a sociopath. That's the whole problem with them, but it also means he'll do whatever he wants and has no loyalties to anyone but himself.
 

Lure Rob & Hyde

Patron with Honors
:biggrin: Okay then, I won't worry about you. :) I don't personally believe Scn made him this way (though it does produce sociopaths). I think he got into Scn to try to handle it. Sociopaths are not really like Hubbard's Anti-Social Personality.

One has to read between the lines. He has too much time for postings on the Internet. Perhaps what he said about being an illegal pc and reading books is correct and he is a hired tool of OSA. At any rate, he doesn't care about truth one way or the other, just about getting what he wants.

Oh, and if he is simply a sociopath, as I suspect, then the Scn programming won't stick anyway - he just enjoyed harassing people because of his fascination with others' ability to produce emotions. No societal programming sticks with a sociopath. That's the whole problem with them, but it also means he'll do whatever he wants and has no loyalties to anyone but himself.


Well said and it was good to read your view on it.:clap:
 
Misterfabian, you are a sociopath. ...

I trust you aren't expressing a clinical diagnosis of a poster based only on internet behavior, G. :wink2:

He certainly has been acting like an @sshole, but it might be better to say his online postings exhibit evidence of sociopathic behavior. :angel:


Mark A. Baker :coolwink:
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
:biggrin: Okay then, I won't worry about you. :) I don't personally believe Scn made him this way (though it does produce sociopaths). I think he got into Scn to try to handle it. Sociopaths are not really like Hubbard's Anti-Social Personality.

One has to read between the lines. He has too much time for postings on the Internet. Perhaps what he said about being an illegal pc and reading books is correct and he is a hired tool of OSA. At any rate, he doesn't care about truth one way or the other, just about getting what he wants.

Oh, and if he is simply a sociopath, as I suspect, then the Scn programming won't stick anyway - he just enjoyed harassing people because of his fascination with others' ability to produce emotions. No societal programming sticks with a sociopath. That's the whole problem with them, but it also means he'll do whatever he wants and has no loyalties to anyone but himself.

Thanks Gottabrain. Good stuff. :)

I did some research into Hubbard's "anti-social personality" stuff and ran it alongside Cleckley/Hare's evolving research. Hubbard's stuff is very childish and limiting and really just about self-serving him and his group. Spot the man's grandiosity! lol It is, quite frankly, a waste of time in the real world.

It's hard to comprehend that a person with the apparency of being a "normal" human (skin, teeth, arms, legs, etc) lacks any conscience or the range of emotional responses that most people in the general population experience.

Something like a mind-control system won't, imho, stick to a sociopath as there is simply not enough identity (core beliefs, etc) for any new concepts to stick to. In my experience it is quite tricky to "read" a sociopath because the tendency is to try to find something and there simply isn't much to find in the emotional intelligence of a sociopath. It's the weirdest God damn feeling sitting in the same room as a sociopath.

Here's some info based on Robert Hare's research. His book "Without Conscience" really helped me as I came out of the mind-control system more commonly called scientology.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199401/charming-psychopath?page=2
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
I trust you aren't expressing a clinical diagnosis of a poster based only on internet behavior, G. :wink2:

He certainly has been acting like an @sshole, but it might be better to say his online postings exhibit evidence of sociopathic behavior. :angel:


Mark A. Baker :coolwink:

:biggrin:You're a character, Mark.

Actually, his Internet behaviour now and over the years, including his responses to me, fit the sociopathic diagnosis perfectly. Years of Internet behaviour provides a fairly good indicator. He also has, in this thread, provided some personal info about himself (though one has to sort through it for what is true and what is not) which further supports this.

I don't get many opportunities to work with a lot of them beyond the one I deal with professionally, who is now de-fanged. So you've caught me out - I definitely have a clinical interest in him. :yes: And I am pleased to find such perfect consistency between the two. I've been dealing the other sociopath professionally for three years, for the sake of his children, who are quite lovely and deserve happy, normal lives.

A few other things I've learned -
- questions about them personally are a waste of time
- don't exhibit any emotions or expect any back
- they'll say absolutely anything if it suits them, lie without reason or even tell the truth without reason
- they are amazingly adept at imitating others' emotions and responses that they have observed and pretending they feel that way
- they are not precisely evil, per se, and not necessarily destructive, but have no conscience toward others and no emotions so can easily become that way (They don't have to). If one does not speak about or use guilt, love or any other emotions with them, they tend to settle down a bit. Emotions can get them behaving destructively. It's kind of like a shark will pass you if you're only swimming, but if you've got a bad cut, you'll get his attention and he'll eat you. Don't bleed emotions around a sociopath.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Lure,

He is a sociopath. Sociopaths are more common in the population than you think. Emotions don't work with him and truth doesn't matter to him either, as telling the truth is a social convention based on respect of others and he cannot relate to others. He states whatever he wants to state, whether it is true or false, if it's what he wants or he thinks it helps his goals. Throwing barbs back & forth doesn't work. He is incapable of caring about anyone but himself and his desires and will feed off emotion of any kind. Others' emotions fascinate him because he cannot produce them, does not feel pangs of conscience like a normal person, does not have buttons, does not/cannot react emotionally or produce emotions and he likes to play with other people's emotions in a vampiric sort of way.

Stay detached. Think of a machine and you'll have a better understanding.

It's not something to get angry about, it just is.

I love you :smoochy::thankyou:
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Thanks Gottabrain. Good stuff. :)

Thank you, sweetie! I went through two years of hell, headaches and confusion with the sociopath I am working with before I figured out how to deal with him. The third year has been nearly event-free for everyone! :clap: :clap:

I did some research into Hubbard's "anti-social personality" stuff and ran it alongside Cleckley/Hare's evolving research. Hubbard's stuff is very childish and limiting and really just about self-serving him and his group. Spot the man's grandiosity! lol It is, quite frankly, a waste of time in the real world.

Yes. Tubby's version is too misleading, too extreme and too scarey for starters. And entirely self-serving.

It's hard to comprehend that a person with the apparency of being a "normal" human (skin, teeth, arms, legs, etc) lacks any conscience or the range of emotional responses that most people in the general population experience.

Yes! It took me the first two years just to get my head around it. Is it a brain and nerve malfunction? Are these people born without a spirit? Religious references going back thousands of years make reference to these people. No emotions or real concept of emotions, no concept of a relationship to others or others as important, no conscience, no regrets. All actions based on "I want" - whether it is spur of the moment or a long term plan.

But they still have to eat, live and survive. They still need and desire human interaction. So these simple basics, as well as money and possessions or activities we might find pleasurable, can and do motivate them. But only temporarily, until the next desire appears, and many of the desires (not all!) are truly awful. That doesn't mean the person is capable of following through to fulfill the bad desires and these are the ones one must find out about and block. The codes for living never firm up and one has to be alert to that. What works for 3-4 months can suddenly drop out if the sociopath changes his mind, and that's unpredictable.

Something like a mind-control system won't, imho, stick to a sociopath as there is simply not enough identity (core beliefs, etc) for any new concepts to stick to. In my experience it is quite tricky to "read" a sociopath because the tendency is to try to find something and there simply isn't much to find in the emotional intelligence of a sociopath. It's the weirdest God damn feeling sitting in the same room as a sociopath.

Great insights, sallydance. You've nailed it! You're absolutely right - they can't be read! Isn't that WEIRD? But there is also a certain consistency to the statements. If you find the personal selfish goal behind what is being said or done, then you can do fairly well sorting the lies from the truth. All things said, true or lie, will support the personal selfish goal. They enjoy their storytelling though, and accidentally give true details, no matter how smooth they try to be.

I also think it is uncomfortable to be in the same room as a sociopath or to speak to one in any way. To me, it feels like being a fly near a spider. So I keep communication brief, short and to the point, rarely asking questions and usually just giving instructions and leave the room quickly. STILL! :eyeroll: If a sociopath thinks you are buying his story, though, he doesn't make the space unpleasant. That's only for those who know what he is.

Here's some info based on Robert Hare's research. His book "Without Conscience" really helped me as I came out of the mind-control system more commonly called scientology.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199401/charming-psychopath?page=2

I've read both, Sallydance, and learned a lot from them.

I love you :smoochy::thankyou:

Glad to help in any way. I love you too, Sin!! :smoochy:

Emma, can we keep Misterfabian around for a little while as a clinical study?
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
- snip -

Emma, can we keep Misterfabian around for a little while as a clinical study?

Only got a min here - things to do - so giving my immediate brief response...

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Pleeze, pleeze Emma, can we? Let us, pleeze, pleeze.

Hey MisterTransparent - how ya doing?
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Pooks has pointed out a time or two that OSA trolls are playing a part. They're acting.

So, no, one cannot diagnose this guy. (or anyone else on this board at any time)

We can say that what he expresses in his posts looks psycho or nuts or sociopathic or mean or whatnot. But we don't really know if he is like that because if he truly is OSA, then he's playing a part. Of course, that doesn't mean he isn't a sociopath. It just means that we cannot truly know.

It's easy to bash this guy who's been so egregiously nasty and has harassed Tory, Silvia and others. And the bashing's fine with me. He's been rude to the point of stalking. But, frankly, I don't know what DSM coding applies to him and neither does anyone else. I'll judge his actions, but I'm not rendering psychoanalytic diagnoses. To do that I would A) have to be trained in it and B) have had to have met the guy and examined him on multiple occasions in a clinical setting.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Pooks has pointed out a time or two that OSA trolls are playing a part. They're acting.

So, no, one cannot diagnose this guy. (or anyone else on this board at any time)

We can say that what he expresses in his posts looks psycho or nuts or sociopathic or mean or whatnot. But we don't really know if he is like that because if he truly is OSA, then he's playing a part. Of course, that doesn't mean he isn't a sociopath. It just means that we cannot truly know.

It's easy to bash this guy who's been so egregiously nasty and has harassed Tory, Silvia and others. And the bashing's fine with me. He's been rude to the point of stalking. But, frankly, I don't know what DSM coding applies to him and neither does anyone else. I'll judge his actions, but I'm not rendering psychoanalytic diagnoses. To do that I would A) have to be trained in it and B) have had to have met the guy and examined him on multiple occasions in a clinical setting.

I don't care who analyzes the dude. He has forfeited any and all special consideration of any kind whatsoever. Who cares?
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
But, frankly, I don't know what DSM coding applies to him and neither does anyone else. I'll judge his actions, but I'm not rendering psychoanalytic diagnoses. To do that I would A) have to be trained in it and B) have had to have met the guy and examined him on multiple occasions in a clinical setting.

You are not me and I am not you, kookookachoo.

[video=youtube;0yNcE8c3j2M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yNcE8c3j2M[/video]

I have training and experience you do not have. So do others. I am sure you can say the same in other areas about me. No diagnosis is set in stone. No matter who gives it based on whatever, there is room for human or other error and other factors not yet known.

For now, I think sociopath will do just fine until other facts present themselves. Since he is not exactly volunteering to provide personal information or to meet in a clinical setting, there isn't much point to mentioning that as any sort of remote possibility.
 
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