Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to swim

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

One of my persistent WTF's when I was "in" was this question: "Given that auditing recovers past-life memories, WHY hasn't anybody recalled anything from whole-track space-opera science or engineering class, and used that knowledge to turn the scientific community upside-down?"


Isn't that how the engineers came up with the design for DC-8's? :unsure:
 
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Anonycat

Crusader
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

One of my persistent WTF's when I was "in" was this question: "Given that auditing recovers past-life memories, WHY hasn't anybody recalled anything from whole-track space-opera science or engineering class, and used that knowledge to turn the scientific community upside-down?"

That's right to think what you did. If Ron went back, why not grab the schematic for the eternal force field that Xenu is still being held in? 75 million years of continuous energy is a lot better than ... well, anything! Or the magnetic ribbons that catch souls. Can't you hack it to be a BT sucker? Maybe a Marcabian jet car, even? Doll bodies with instructions? His sci-fi was SO. BAD. I might add that Xenu is an eternal lifeform which requires no food, water, clothing, sunlight, companionship, or anything!

If scientologists could locate an SP, or use "exteriorization", why not find Xenu, back engineer the forcefield, and free the world with free energy? Not only it would save the wold from poverty and hunger forever, you'd make people pretty impressed. I bet they'd even try scientology. Especially if they made Xenu the Reg. Heads-up, scientology: Xenu doesn't want a meal break, coffee, or toilet paper.
 
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Gib

Crusader
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

One of my persistent WTF's when I was "in" was this question: "Given that auditing recovers past-life memories, WHY hasn't anybody recalled anything from whole-track space-opera science or engineering class, and used that knowledge to turn the scientific community upside-down?"

oh that's easy Enthetan.

It goes like this, thinking with Hubbard [STRIKE]logic[/STRIKE] brainwashing,

when one views a past life and all the incidents, including knowledge from past life,

why it all as-is's, you know perfect duplicate, hence it is all gone, poof, bye bye,

and we's got to start over :yes:

There yah go, perfectly explained. :roflmao:
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Re: Another eye witness to children being locked in the chain locker on the Apollo:

I'll tell'ya, it looks to me to be a black eye patch which could be covering a black eye or another eye injury.

You can see the thin black strap going back on the right. She looks subdued. She looks like she would rather be somewhere else.

I think it's an eye patch.


On Tony Ortega's blog the past two mornings he posted some evidence showing that CoS has published some photos which they photoshopped in order to remove Hubbard's 2'nd wife as well as a young Commodore's Messenger.

The Messenger who got removed from a picture was Julie Blundell and is shown below in a different picture taken at about the same time:


Hubbard_Julie_Blundell-e1415844292615.jpg


Some readers at the Bunker noticed that she appeared to have a black eye, and Julie herself posted comments at WWP which I copied and pasted below:

(I don't have the WWP link, rather I copy/pasted from the comments at the Bunker where the postings got cross-posted)
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Another eye witness to children being locked in the chain locker on the Apollo:

On Tony Ortega's blog the past two mornings he posted some evidence showing that CoS has published some photos which they photoshopped in order to remove Hubbard's 2'nd wife as well as a young Commodore's Messenger.

The Messenger who got removed from a picture was Julie Blundell and is shown below in a different picture taken at about the same time:


Hubbard_Julie_Blundell-e1415844292615.jpg


Some readers at the Bunker noticed that she appeared to have a black eye, and Julie herself posted comments at WWP which I copied and pasted below:

(I don't have the WWP link, rather I copy/pasted from the comments at the Bunker where the postings got cross-posted)

I'll tell'ya, it looks to me to be a black eye patch which could be covering a black eye or another eye injury.

You can see the thin black strap going back on the right. She looks subdued. She looks like she would rather be somewhere else.

I think it's an eye patch.
Yes, and this only happened because she didn´t stay in the chain locker - the only save space on a ship during stormy weather. Now child loving Ron personally took care of her and that´s the reason why she was beside him on the picture..... :coolwink:
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Re: Another eye witness to children being locked in the chain locker on the Apollo:

I'll tell'ya, it looks to me to be a black eye patch which could be covering a black eye or another eye injury. You can see the thin black strap going back on the right. She looks subdued. She looks like she would rather be somewhere else. I think it's an eye patch.

Posted on WWP, March 10, 2013, per convo with the (former) little girl, Julie Blundell..

"Yep I am still alive and yes I am out. Have family still involved though so you know the drill, low profile and all that! I have stayed out of everything up til now, but due to your very sincere and reasonable request for real clarification rather than speculation, I have posted below what I think was the cause of that facial swelling and probable eye patch. It was such a long time ago, but I can say for sure that no one hit me on flag, nor was I ever locked in the chain locker. But people were, I did see this personally, my sister being one. I was however well and truly belted a few years later at AOSH DK by a crazy woman from flag on mission to DK. AND she was one of the CS's! jeeez!! If my dad had not busted in the door and stopped her, I would have been a real mess! So yes, i can confidently attest to the fact that violence did happen on occasion! She was trying to stop me leaving the SO at the time and I was 15. As if that's gonna work on a 15 year old very stubborn person!! HAH!!

I was one of his messengers since the inception of the CMs, together with Annie, Terry and Janis. I left in 1970 sometime. And no, Ron never hit me in all my time with him.I think that the swollen face may have come from an accident up forward one day when a pulley system came loose, swung down and hit me in the face. I don't remember ever having a bad enough tooth ache on board to have that much swelling, although, lets face it, oral hygiene was not a great priority back then so it may well have been a toothache! Oh, And I could have been anywhere from 8 1/2 to 11 1/2. So there you have it straight from the horses mouth!
Toddles! JB

Ps.... I was not short! It's the camera angle I'm sure!!"

https://whyweprotest.net/threads/hubbard-and-a-kiddie-messenger.107659/page-2
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Re: Another eye witness to children being locked in the chain locker on the Apollo:

If you give the photo a good examination you can see the swelling of the cheek is severe and rather fresh.

Posted on WWP, March 10, 2013, per convo with the (former) little girl, Julie Blundell..

"Yep I am still alive and yes I am out. Have family still involved though so you know the drill, low profile and all that! I have stayed out of everything up til now, but due to your very sincere and reasonable request for real clarification rather than speculation, I have posted below what I think was the cause of that facial swelling and probable eye patch. It was such a long time ago, but I can say for sure that no one hit me on flag, nor was I ever locked in the chain locker. But people were, I did see this personally, my sister being one. I was however well and truly belted a few years later at AOSH DK by a crazy woman from flag on mission to DK. AND she was one of the CS's! jeeez!! If my dad had not busted in the door and stopped her, I would have been a real mess! So yes, i can confidently attest to the fact that violence did happen on occasion! She was trying to stop me leaving the SO at the time and I was 15. As if that's gonna work on a 15 year old very stubborn person!! HAH!!

I was one of his messengers since the inception of the CMs, together with Annie, Terry and Janis. I left in 1970 sometime. And no, Ron never hit me in all my time with him.I think that the swollen face may have come from an accident up forward one day when a pulley system came loose, swung down and hit me in the face. I don't remember ever having a bad enough tooth ache on board to have that much swelling, although, lets face it, oral hygiene was not a great priority back then so it may well have been a toothache! Oh, And I could have been anywhere from 8 1/2 to 11 1/2. So there you have it straight from the horses mouth!
Toddles! JB

Ps.... I was not short! It's the camera angle I'm sure!!"

https://whyweprotest.net/threads/hubbard-and-a-kiddie-messenger.107659/page-2
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

When you say thetan you are using hubbards word that means an eternal spirit that has lived many lives and retains the knowledge of those past lives. This is the crux of why hubbard alluded to children being adults, that is a child's body is controlled by an eternal spirit that has just picked up another vessel. So when you say we are all thetans in bodies you believe our flesh is just a vessel for an eternal being that has full retention of its past lives.

My understanding is BTs cause conflict with the thetan and hold it back from being able to reach its full potential. Hence the need/existence for scientology.

So I add this up to meaning that if you believe in thetans, without believing in BTs we would be at our full potential moments after we are born and the thetan selects that body.

That being said in your post you say that our minds develop over time, which obviously means there is something\s interfering with the thetan. So what you are really saying in the above post is that you believe in scientology and its teachings. That is to reach our full potential as a operating thetan we have to rid ourselves of BTs.

Claire when you use the term thetan this is the conclusion that I draw, I have attempted to lay out my reasoning in an orderly fashion.

The problem that I have with this belief system is that there has never been a OT nor anyone that has proven they possess any of the super abilities that hubbard says we posses as a thetan. It is important to realise that scientology is not a faith based organization. They are meant to be able to produce results from their practices. This is why I fully reject the idea that we all are thetans.

I'm not a Scio. I just think "thetan" was Hubs made up word for "spirit" or "soul". To me, they're synonymous.
Hub is, as we know, notorious for redefining existing concepts.

Spirits aren't minds. Children are just as spiritually developed as adults but they are not physically or emotionally or psychologically developed as adults, of course.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

One of my persistent WTF's when I was "in" was this question: "Given that auditing recovers past-life memories, WHY hasn't anybody recalled anything from whole-track space-opera science or engineering class, and used that knowledge to turn the scientific community upside-down?"


I knew someone who claimed he did. Started working based on what he said was his whole track memory on a spaceship. I was told some weird ray or something came out, hit someone there, and they got hurt. I was a kid then and I heard my dad and his friend talking about it. I do remember the guy this was about.
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

I'm not a Scio. I just think "thetan" was Hubs made up word for "spirit" or "soul". To me, they're synonymous.
Hub is, as we know, notorious for redefining existing concepts.

Spirits aren't minds. Children are just as spiritually developed as adults but they are not physically or emotionally or psychologically developed as adults, of course.

I might agree with you if I believed that anyone was as spiritually develop as anyone else. I don't believe it's an across the board development. I have to wonder if your belief in "thetan" coincides with hubbards take that all are age old beings. Does he give an explanation of the "thetan" origination? What keeps the "thetan" battery charged? Regardless of the truth behind the "thetan", children are human beings and should be loved and treaded just like all other human beings. Don't put them in the hubbard box.
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

I knew someone who claimed he did. Started working based on what he said was his whole track memory on a spaceship. I was told some weird ray or something came out, hit someone there, and they got hurt. I was a kid then and I heard my dad and his friend talking about it. I do remember the guy this was about.




:drama:
 

eldritch cuckoo

brainslugged reptilian
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

I knew someone who claimed he did. Started working based on what he said was his whole track memory on a spaceship. I was told some weird ray or something came out, hit someone there, and they got hurt. I was a kid then and I heard my dad and his friend talking about it. I do remember the guy this was about.

The morphic resonances are abundant today. I was going to post just that, so...

:drama:
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

I might agree with you if I believed that anyone was as spiritually develop as anyone else. I don't believe it's an across the board development. I have to wonder if your belief in "thetan" coincides with hubbards take that all are age old beings. Does he give an explanation of the "thetan" origination? What keeps the "thetan" battery charged? Regardless of the truth behind the "thetan", children are human beings and should be loved and treaded just like all other human beings. Don't put them in the hubbard box.
I'm not a Scn'ist.
 

shanic89

Patron Meritorious
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

I'm not a Scio. I just think "thetan" was Hubs made up word for "spirit" or "soul". To me, they're synonymous.
Hub is, as we know, notorious for redefining existing concepts.

Claire, hubbard was clear, about the definition of a thetan. It is in no way interchangeable with the Christian idea of spirit, not that of the Jewish, Buddhist or for that matter any other group that I am aware of. You can not seriously believe that anyone on this message board thinks there is some other meaning for thetan other than that outlined by hubbard. To someone that did not know what a scientologist meant when they say thetan you might point them in the right direction by saying it is similar conceptually to word soul used in some religions. Then once they grasped that concept further explanation would show rather profound differences in the abstract concept of spirit.

When you say
I do think that we are ALL thetans in bodies, including kids.
you can only mean that you believe we are as hubbard described us.


When you use the word thentan to describe us all, you must believe that we are bound by past traumas that have effected us through out our past trillions of years. I'm sure that you are aware that hubbard states that these past life traumas may manifest themselves as mental illnesses, is that what you honestly believe? If you do not believe that we are immortal beings with full recall of our past life's, that we are capable of god like powers, then you would have to use another word to describe what you are talking about, because thetan does describe just those ideas.


Spirits aren't minds. Children are just as spiritually developed as adults but they are not physically or emotionally or psychologically developed as adults, of course.

Hubbard uses the concept of our earthly bodies being controlled by a thetan as a way of describing children as adults in small bodies. I understand that you have stated very clearly that children are not physically, emotionally or psychologically developed as adults. You do say that children are as spiritually developed as adults though and you believe in the concept of thetans, this seems like a exceptional slippery slope to me.
 

Gib

Crusader
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

Claire, hubbard was clear, about the definition of a thetan. It is in no way interchangeable with the Christian idea of spirit, not that of the Jewish, Buddhist or for that matter any other group that I am aware of. You can not seriously believe that anyone on this message board thinks there is some other meaning for thetan other than that outlined by hubbard. To someone that did not know what a scientologist meant when they say thetan you might point them in the right direction by saying it is similar conceptually to word soul used in some religions. Then once they grasped that concept further explanation would show rather profound differences in the abstract concept of spirit.

When you say you can only mean that you believe we are as hubbard described us.


When you use the word thentan to describe us all, you must believe that we are bound by past traumas that have effected us through out our past trillions of years. I'm sure that you are aware that hubbard states that these past life traumas may manifest themselves as mental illnesses, is that what you honestly believe? If you do not believe that we are immortal beings with full recall of our past life's, that we are capable of god like powers, then you would have to use another word to describe what you are talking about, because thetan does describe just those ideas.




Hubbard uses the concept of our earthly bodies being controlled by a thetan as a way of describing children as adults in small bodies. I understand that you have stated very clearly that children are not physically, emotionally or psychologically developed as adults. You do say that children are as spiritually developed as adults though and you believe in the concept of thetans, this seems like a exceptional slippery slope to me.

that it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Claire: I am not a scientologist.

(but I Claire, still believe in it)
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

Claire, hubbard was clear, about the definition of a thetan. It is in no way interchangeable with the Christian idea of spirit, not that of the Jewish, Buddhist or for that matter any other group that I am aware of. You can not seriously believe that anyone on this message board thinks there is some other meaning for thetan other than that outlined by hubbard. To someone that did not know what a scientologist meant when they say thetan you might point them in the right direction by saying it is similar conceptually to word soul used in some religions. Then once they grasped that concept further explanation would show rather profound differences in the abstract concept of spirit.

When you say you can only mean that you believe we are as hubbard described us.


When you use the word thentan to describe us all, you must believe that we are bound by past traumas that have effected us through out our past trillions of years. I'm sure that you are aware that hubbard states that these past life traumas may manifest themselves as mental illnesses, is that what you honestly believe? If you do not believe that we are immortal beings with full recall of our past life's, that we are capable of god like powers, then you would have to use another word to describe what you are talking about, because thetan does describe just those ideas.




Hubbard uses the concept of our earthly bodies being controlled by a thetan as a way of describing children as adults in small bodies. I understand that you have stated very clearly that children are not physically, emotionally or psychologically developed as adults. You do say that children are as spiritually developed as adults though and you believe in the concept of thetans, this seems like a exceptional slippery slope to me.

According to the cult's own glossary,

" a thetan is an immortal spiritual being; the human soul"

Hub also said "the being who us the individual and who handles and lives in the body"

And

"the person himself".
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

Seriously, Enthetan? Jeez.
 

shanic89

Patron Meritorious
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

According to the cult's own glossary,

" a thetan is an immortal spiritual being; the human soul"

Hub also said "the being who us the individual and who handles and lives in the body"

And

"the person himself".



Clarie do you believe that you are controlled by an immortal spirit that has been in existence for trillions of years and that traumatic experiences you have had in your past life's effect how you are behaving in this present life?
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

I don't believe I'm controlled by one-I think that'd be possession, AFAIK.

I think I am an eternal spirit who always existed, picking up experiences along the way.

I think that "past lives" is a bit of a simplistic term. It's moar like one infinite lifetime with the occasional change of identity and of body.
 
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