Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to swim

shanic89

Patron Meritorious
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

I don't believe I'm controlled by one-I think that'd be possession, AFAIK.

I think I am an eternal spirit who always existed, picking up experiences along the way.

I think that "past lives" is a bit of a simplistic term. It's moar like one infinite lifetime with the occasional change of identity and of body.

Thank you for that answer. Do you believe that how you behave now is influenced by your past experiences? That is, past experiences that were had in a different identities/bodies not in the one that you are in now.
 

Gib

Crusader
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

delete
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

Seriously, Enthetan? Jeez.

Are you referring to this post of mine?

One of my persistent WTF's when I was "in" was this question: "Given that auditing recovers past-life memories, WHY hasn't anybody recalled anything from whole-track space-opera science or engineering class, and used that knowledge to turn the scientific community upside-down?"
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

Are you referring to this post of mine?



No. Just surprised that you liked the post from Gib, who's been nagging me and following me around, claiming that I do Scn tek whatever. It was a stupid nasty little post and I was a bit taken aback that you liked it.

That can be a problem with the buttons...can be a bit enigmatic without accompanying commentary, I guess.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

Thank you for that answer. Do you believe that how you behave now is influenced by your past experiences? That is, past experiences that were had in a different identities/bodies not in the one that you are in now.

I think that any past experience can cast its shadow over what one does now. Since I do believe in reincarnation, I think that past lifetimes can affect how I go about things now. But I also think that what a person did 500 years ago is no more important than what happened that time in 5th grade when they hurt themselves. I guess that a lot of believers in reincarnation get a bit too into past life memories; get really excited about them. I've done that!

Thought about this a lot. Hubbard thought that all the past painful or scary or sad incidents had to be found and fixed (not to mention all the stuff about BTs which I'm not into). And people spend many thousands of hours in session if they do the whole bridge. Apart from the fact that this keeps members on the hook; ideologically, it makes for an incredibly long losing proposition. How would you ever get them all? If we had always existed? Maybe, when Hub said he was looking for a one shot clear, he was actually stepping out of his greed and seeing this problem.

Well, when I consider Buddhism (which I'm very interested in) I think that they were doing better with this stuff. That seems to be more direct and it doesn't involve finding all the past pain, etc.

Ultimately, the thing would be to stop letting past experiences get to ya. But just have the attitude or degree of enlightenment where you'd just put it aside and make it not matter, be apart from all the crap. It's "maya" (illusion) so if one truly had that concept, maybe they could sidestep past, present and future pain.

This was probably a bit long winded.
 

shanic89

Patron Meritorious
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

I think that any past experience can cast its shadow over what one does now. Since I do believe in reincarnation, I think that past lifetimes can affect how I go about things now. But I also think that what a person did 500 years ago is no more important than what happened that time in 5th grade when they hurt themselves. I guess that a lot of believers in reincarnation get a bit too into past life memories; get really excited about them. I've done that!

Thought about this a lot. Hubbard thought that all the past painful or scary or sad incidents had to be found and fixed (not to mention all the stuff about BTs which I'm not into). And people spend many thousands of hours in session if they do the whole bridge. Apart from the fact that this keeps members on the hook; ideologically, it makes for an incredibly long losing proposition. How would you ever get them all? If we had always existed? Maybe, when Hub said he was looking for a one shot clear, he was actually stepping out of his greed and seeing this problem.

Well, when I consider Buddhism (which I'm very interested in) I think that they were doing better with this stuff. That seems to be more direct and it doesn't involve finding all the past pain, etc.

Ultimately, the thing would be to stop letting past experiences get to ya. But just have the attitude or degree of enlightenment where you'd just put it aside and make it not matter, be apart from all the crap. It's "maya" (illusion) so if one truly had that concept, maybe they could sidestep past, present and future pain.

This was probably a bit long winded.

That is rather interesting but I'm unsure if what you are describing fits into hubbards definition of a thetan. You are using some similar rather abstract ideas of eternal life but do they align with hubbards thetan. He does describe a thetan as being capable of god like powers. He is quite clear about the possible abilities that we are able to regain. Do you believe that you are capable of these god like abilities that hubbard says we as a thetan will be able to once again use?
 

Gib

Crusader
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

No. Just surprised that you liked the post from Gib, who's been nagging me and following me around, claiming that I do Scn tek whatever. It was a stupid nasty little post and I was a bit taken aback that you liked it.

That can be a problem with the buttons...can be a bit enigmatic without accompanying commentary, I guess.

There is no problem with buttons.

It's a problem with referencing specific posts. Aye.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=enigmatic
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

That is rather interesting but I'm unsure if what you are describing fits into hubbards definition of a thetan. You are using some similar rather abstract ideas of eternal life but do they align with hubbards thetan. He does describe a thetan as being capable of god like powers. He is quite clear about the possible abilities that we are able to regain. Do you believe that you are capable of these god like abilities that hubbard says we as a thetan will be able to once again use?

Well, his theories about what a thetan could do woulld be additional to the theory that a thetan exists and what it would be. He indicated that thetan was the same thing as a soul, a spiritual being. Then he went on to claim that they could do certain things.

I think pure spirit is infinitely capable, no limits. But I really really try not to focus on that. In CofS, I did. Was kinda obsessed with it. But now, it seems like the wrong emphasis and that it detracts from living life. I dislike pipe dreams. Lottery tickets, wishing to get rich quick, even gambling. That stuff seems wrongheaded. Theories about the nature of spirit are fun, but seems like even if there are such things- given how normal life is, hoping for godlike abilities is like apie in the sky wet dream. Plus, this world is sick, polluted, with cruelty to animals, human trafficking... Being a good member of society, being good to loved ones should have priority.

I admire people like the Dalai Lama. It is great they're there. Those who write and preach about enlightenment- who are the real deals - glad they're there. I guess that's their path and that some of these people are spiritually aware and I can learn from them. For me, though, it's probably going to take a couple lifetimes just to unindorktrinate myself much less worry about being an OT or a demigod or perfect master
 

shanic89

Patron Meritorious
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

Well, his theories about what a thetan could do woulld be additional to the theory that a thetan exists and what it would be. He indicated that thetan was the same thing as a soul, a spiritual being. Then he went on to claim that they could do certain things.

This is in a round about way is what I was driving at when I said I had reservations about using the term thetan when describing a spirit or soul that may resides within us. Hubbard is quite clear about what a thetan is and what it is capable of, we do know he was a fiction writer so... I believe that the word thetan cannot be separated from hubbards description, that includes where it comes from how it takes over the human body and what it is capable of and its limitations.

I think that if you do not wholeheartedly embrace the discription of his thetan then you should use something else to describe what you believe in. Otherwise every time you said or posted you believe that "we are all thetans in bodies" you would have to provide caveats each and every time to ensure others knew that you did not believe a thetan was as hubbard described.
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to swim.

<snip>


Here's some comments made by David Mayo about children (as well as adults) put into the chain locker:

David Mayo:

"They used to have people locked in the chain locker, including small children. It was very dangerous because if the anchor started to slip and start running out, it would turn a body into pulp in no time at all. I saw children locked up in the chain locker. He had a birthday party on March 13 1968; there was a woman who he ordered locked in the chain locker. During the party he had her brought out. She was filthy, covered with dirt and rust, and had not been allowed to wash or change clothes - she had been in there a week. She was pretty dirty - he brought her out to the party, he said he was giving her a reprieve and permitting her to come to the party, as if that was a nice gesture. She still wasn't allowed to wash or change, so she was brought to the party and had to stay and later she was returned [to the locker]. He said he was giving her a reprieve but it was just flaunting her degradation. It had looked like things were lightening up a little, people thought maybe things were getting better, then this happened and people were shocked and it gave us a sinister chill. She was in a dress.

From time to time, Hubbard would cancel such activities, like the chain locker, and blame it on someone else. He said that no one was to be put into the chain locker by his order or decree, and Baron Burez was an evil monster for having chain lockered people. Baron was a US crew member and went into disfavour. He would start such pronouncements with, "It has just come to my attention that..."

The length of time for children would vary, but no one was there less than a day. The average was a week or two. Three weeks was about the maximum. Age didn't matter. The youngest kids were 5, 6 or 7. Old, young, men, women, big, little; it wouldn't matter because to Scientologists the being is ageless so you don't think in terms of how young or old someone is."

http://www.spaink.net/cos/mpoulter/worst/lockers.html
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Seven year-old put in chain locker, and over-boarded despite not being able to s

One of my persistent WTF's when I was "in" was this question: "Given that auditing recovers past-life memories, WHY hasn't anybody recalled anything from whole-track space-opera science or engineering class, and used that knowledge to turn the scientific community upside-down?"

I'm not saying this is true, but Filbert's explanation is that you can't go too far ahead of the dramatisation. This is an extract from his work "Excalibur," file 4C;

Mobius Strip Flows / Winners & Losers

A mobius strip, if you look it up in a dictionary, is where you draw a line on a sheet of paper with arrows on the line. Holding the strip of paper up, you see a line with the arrow marks in one direction. If you twist the strip (180 degrees), and do a figure 8 with it, you will find in the middle you will have arrows going in 2 different directions, against each other. So the single line flowing in one direction, appears to be flowing in opposite directions. I am sure there is some farmer out there who thinks he is a scientist who will try to use this for energy creation, but he is in for a big disappointment. anytime you introduce an invention ahead of the dramatisation people reject it.

I knew this guy that invented an aeroplane from his recall in auditing. It would take off at 5 miles per hour from a 100 foot field. He took it around the US and the world. No one would buy it. Since it was not in the dramatisation, it was not real to folks. There are over 100 good long term. solutions to the energy crisis in this country. There are dozens of solutions to the fresh water, food, and whatever other problem countries face. There are almost endless solutions to any of the problems that mankind faces, but nobody wants any of them, because it is not in the dramatisation. That is how thick this repeating physical universe game is.

I am not really concerned that someone is going to go out and build an anti- gravity machine because if they do, there isn't going to be anyone there to buy it. This has already happened 4 times in the last 20 years. Some solutions are in the dramatisation, or could be put into it easily. These are interesting. A fellow invented batteries that last a lifetime. Delco felt this was a threat, bought it up, for a million dollars, and the guy went to Florida and talks to no one. Then there is the guy in New Mexico, who cannot afford to feed his children, with the cost of gas and his long commute to work, so he goes to a Hardware store, gets some plumbing gear, gets 60 miles per gallon out of a full sized sedan. The press after months of ridicule sent someone down to check it out. It is true. He's gone, family and all. Just disappeared. Detroit automotive people flew into that town before he disappeared. If these people weren't bought off or eliminated, their products could be put into the dramatisation. It takes two to make commerce, and if the invention or solution is close to reality, it will fly. If it is too far ahead, it becomes unreal. I built 70 miles per hour vehicles that got 300 miles per gallon when I was 12 years old. They cost me $40 a piece. They were horribly low and light, and my parents insisted I keep them off the road. No one was interested, it was too much progress, too far ahead in time.

There are mobius strip flows; and that is how awareness gets created. A person gets something going in one direction and then believes it is going in 2 directions at once. You can actually get awareness and consciousness going full blast, if you start running flows this way. It is a fascinating area to audit and clean up, and it is part of operating as an OT, seeing how these are created and work. Even theta versus itself as mest is just one thrust we mistakenly perceive as against. What we have going on in the physical universe is the apparency of winners and losers, and we have the apparency of energy flowing in two directions. However, in truth, both are single flows in one direction. Senior to the physical universe there are no winners or losers, but in the apparency of the physical universe, there are.
 
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