Sexual morality in scientology

Feral

Rogue male
My experience in the church as regards sexual or 2D morality has been interesting, I have learned through my scientology indoctrination to distrust gays and lesbians and perverts as 1.1ers. I would expect them to lie cheat and steal. Also, through extrapolation any person who would participate in any "irregular" sexual practice. The use of toys, porn or any such has been drummed into me by the SO MAAs as reprehensible, irregular and perverted.

I recall an ex GO exec telling me that there was a big 2D flap many years ago in Melbourne that involved bananas. It became a GO issue, WTF? The poor bananas!

Someone I knew split with his wife, while on OT VII and started a 2D with a girl, the BIG issue was that he apparently did not "get" was that he was out 2D because his divorce was not finalised. It was funny, the auditor in session even suggested that was his overt. He told me that he just looked at the poor sod and said;"I don't give a fuck about that!" at which the auditor dropped it. He also got a KR to that effect from some pious public. Some effort was invested down in the MAAs office to get him to see he had violated the sanctity of marriage. I was twinned with him down there and we did conditions and ROPECs together.

I noticed the same in Jeff Hawkins book, tongues wagged viciously and KRs flew at int when he was seen SPEAKING to the woman he was to marry because her divorce was not finalised. What, are we in medieval times? Is this the inquisition?

All this from a group that thinks nothing of sending their execs and staff for abortions to get rid of inconvenient pregnancies. Or forces the divorces of SO members from their non SO spouses. I have even heard that DM has ordered couples divorce at GOLD because the husband and wife worked in different departments(he seemed to want to keep the org compartmentalised). A group with a history of denying education to staffs and SO members children,and enforcing under age unpaid labour and then in some cases offloading them unprepared into the world if they "don't make it" all while pontificating on the evils of "psych influenced" state schools. A group that separates families for years in the SO and for ever in the case of disconnection.

Is that your idea of morality?
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
Feral, excellent post.

IMO there is no "morality" in the church except when used as a tool to acheive an end. For example, the church "looks the other way" when it comes to it's celebs because they keep the $$$$$ flowing. Prime example, TC and his "2d" debacles. LRH is certainly a poor example of "marriage couseling" and child rearing.

Personally, I have seen some VERY out 2D scenes in our local org. but they were swept over, OR it was "handled" by someone forking over a lot of $$$$.

Overall, the issue of "morality" is a slippery slope anyways. Although I was raised to distrust homosexuals or anyone not in Scio. my own observation is that it's a crock of shit. I have a HUGE issue with a group calling itself a religion and PASSING JUDGEMENT on others when they have a snakes nest of dirty lies hidden and can't even admit it's there!!!!:omg:
 

Div6

Crusader
<snip>
What, are we in medieval times? Is this the inquisition?
<snip>


The criminal organization known as Scientology is stuck in medieval control mechanisms, and is heavily dramatizing the Inquisition.

One of the first things the Inquisitors would do when they came to an area was dig up the graves of known heretics, have the bodies drug through the streets, and then burned.


Which itself was simply a dramatization of earlier degradations on the theta track. There are no "OT's" in Scn...just sheeple.


"Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency...." - Monty Python
 
Is that your idea of morality?

What the church practices in terms of "group morality" bears no relationship to the subject of personal ethics & responsibility as is discussed in the materials of the subject of scientology.

Church practices are simply a "service facsimile" used to coerce compliance with management imposed arbitraries.



Mark A. Baker
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Having had inaccurate "KRs" written about me by people who knew nothing about me (or who I did or didn't have a 2D with), I'm not the least bit surprised.

I had to go to ethics once for some supposed 2D incident that made me burst out in laughter when I heard it. That did not go over well.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
An OTVII can't keep their marriage together...??? But that person is a Scientologist???:duh:

Bannanas are perverted yet within the Sea Org it's ok to remarry as much as you like. :unsure:
Do people realize just how many divorces there are in the Sea Org?? It's ridiculous for the most ethical organization to have so many divorces. :ohmy:
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
Having had inaccurate "KRs" written about me by people who knew nothing about me (or who I did or didn't have a 2D with), I'm not the least bit surprised.

I had to go to ethics once for some supposed 2D incident that made me burst out in laughter when I heard it. That did not go over well.


OMG, this same exact thing happened to my wife and I. We were even sent to ethics because I was making fun of it (the KR). Of course making fun of something means you have overts. :duh:
We had a KR writen on us for doing something right out in public. As if we're going to go out 2D with everyone watching.
Even the EO didn't believe us, yet there was ZERO evidence we did anything.
The report was absolutely ridiculous.
I then found out the person was doing lower conditions and was looking for an effective blow. I confronted him on it and he at least admitted he was wrong.
I basically told the EO to blow me and I went back to post.:angry:
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
Quote from IKnowTooMuch:

An OTVII can't keep their marriage together...??? But that person is a Scientologist???

Bannanas are perverted yet within the Sea Org it's ok to remarry as much as you like.
Do people realize just how many divorces there are in the Sea Org?? It's ridiculous for the most ethical organization to have so many divorces.

I KNOW!!!! I saw soooo many failed marriage in the "church"! I saw a divorce that occurred right AFTER marriage couseling at FLAG for big$$$$$$!!!:omg:

I saw an affair occuring between three married OTs!!!!!:omg:

I saw a man dating a student and her mother secretly at the same time!!!:omg: :omg:

Another prime example of failure of tech!!!
 
Out 2d is not a violation of Scientology ethics, in fact, it is consistent with it. The ethics conditions and formulas are not based on right or wrong, it is based on upstat or downsta. If something is upstat than anything goes. If something is downstat, then anything or everything is wrong.
Scientology ethics has nothing to do with character or integrity. It only has to do with achieving what you want or not.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
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I KNOW!!!! I saw soooo many failed marriage in the "church"! I saw a divorce that occurred right AFTER marriage couseling at FLAG for big$$$$$$!!!:omg:

I saw an affair occuring between three married OTs!!!!!:omg:

I saw a man dating a student and her mother secretly at the same time!!!:omg: :omg:

Another prime example of failure of tech!!!

You seem to put a LOT of significance on other people's sex lives. Not to put too fine a point on it but I'm from the school of "what consenting adults get up to sexually" is nobody's business but theirs & their partners.

The only out-ethics I see is the Co$ attempting to impose a group "sex standard" on individuals.


Mark A. Baker
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Out 2d is not a violation of Scientology ethics, in fact, it is consistent with it. The ethics conditions and formulas are not based on right or wrong, it is based on upstat or downsta. If something is upstat than anything goes. If something is downstat, then anything or everything is wrong.
Scientology ethics has nothing to do with character or integrity. It only has to do with achieving what you want or not.

The Anabaptist Jacques

As I recall, any 2nd dynamic activity, whether marriage, dating, having an affair, was only moral or immoral for staff (not Sea Org) in view of the upstatness (or in many, many cases the apparent upstatness) of the staff member considered.

Exactly right Jacques - downstat caused everything to be examined and conditions being dictated. Where upstatness could cause truly outrageous out-ethics to be treated with a knowing grin.

Sea Org always struck me as a direct dramatization of the perversions of the founder. An unrealistic and untenable channeling of human relationships into an abyss. It is so thoroughly unworkable it guarantees out-ethics and withholds.

The 2D co-audit is utter crap, in my experience. Some offhand remark captured into a tech bulletin and more destructive than helpful.

Scientology as a culture does nothing to stabilize or support a family in any way shape or form, in my experience. You really have to hold your ground and refuse to do unethical financial moves, and insist on buying life insurance and having health insurance - both are considered optional by the Church, and yet without them a family can be ruined.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
Out 2d is not a violation of Scientology ethics, in fact, it is consistent with it. The ethics conditions and formulas are not based on right or wrong, it is based on upstat or downsta. If something is upstat than anything goes. If something is downstat, then anything or everything is wrong.
Scientology ethics has nothing to do with character or integrity. It only has to do with achieving what you want or not.

The Anabaptist Jacques


Money=upstats.:confused2:
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
Quote:

Mark A. Baker Quote:
Originally Posted by sandygirl
I KNOW!!!! I saw soooo many failed marriage in the "church"! I saw a divorce that occurred right AFTER marriage couseling at FLAG for big$$$$$$!!!

I saw an affair occuring between three married OTs!!!!!

I saw a man dating a student and her mother secretly at the same time!!!

Another prime example of failure of tech!!!

You seem to put a LOT of significance on other people's sex lives. Not to put too fine a point on it but I'm from the school of "what consenting adults get up to sexually" is nobody's business but theirs & their partners.

The only out-ethics I see is the Co$ attempting to impose a group "sex standard" on individuals.


Mark A. Baker
Yesterday 07:47 PM

I agree-but you may have misunderstood my point. Personally, I don't give a flying f*** what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. (unless their hurting their kids with their little "episodes")

But I have a HUGE problem with smug hypocrites that spout church "policy" out of one side of their mouth while they're, well, you get the idea, with the other

I do believe in -set a good example and cause only those things others can easily experience.
 

riptide

Patron with Honors
A Flag trained senior C/S and lead auditor in an Org here in the US both get busted recently for sex related offenses. Both of these people represent a HUGE expense in terms of training alone. One had sex with a minor fellow staff member, and the other had sex with the spouse of a PC. (Same sex!)

I wonder how much money this draconian practice has cost the organization in terms of blown tech terminals. This just goes on and on and on and......
 

johnAnchovie

Still raging
The joy of freedom

It is a daily source of wonder and joy to be frr of all that oppression. When I was in, I could never get married, because I felt that the MAAs and the church were intruding on my relationships. In fact, I got engaged twice, in each case I was sent on long missions in distant lands with weeks of the engagements.

I got into to a beautiful safe, respectful and nurturing relationship about a year ago. It is so far from anything I experienced in Scientology. It is called caring and love. This is what Scientology was keeping from me.

I often felt that girlfriends were torn between that fat blob, Blubturd and me, I think he wanted that, I think he enjoyed creating such tensions, and built them into the system he created.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
It is a dramatisation in EVERY extreme religion that they just can't resist interfering in people's 2nd Dynamics. It has nothing to do with ethics, it has to do with aberration.

Just recognise it for what it is and get out of that particular religion ASAP.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
It has to do with the way the dynamics flip into each other when they get aberrated. The 1st into the 8th, the 2nd into the 7th and so on. And all vice-versa too.

Aberrated 2nd dynamics start going on about the aesthetic beauty of naked women, while aberrated 7th dynamics flip into buggering people about on their 2nd dynamics.

With the collapse of Scientology as a viable group they shifted their attention over into having lots of beautilful and expensive buildings etc (6th dynamic).

It's all according to pattern and is entirely predictable.
 

Gypsy2112

Patron
My father had an affair with the chaplain while he and my mom were getting marriage counseling (from the chaplain). When my mom wrote this up, SHE went to ethics for trying to interfere with the chaplain and my father's 2-d! The church thought it was the "greatest good" that my father split from my mom and marry the chaplain since they were both on staff and thus had more similar goals and purposes.

One of my very best friends who had been an upstat, very productive staff member had a sec check where they found out he was gay. I wasn't around for his "handling" but I know that eventually my friend left. None of our mutual friends would talk to him, I remember seeing him once while I was passing out promo with another girl who had also been a very close friend of his, I wanted to say hi but she quickly pulled me around a corner and said that it was out-ethics for us to talk to him as he was "a disgusting, 1.1 pervert" and that she hoped he "pulled in" AIDS for lying to the church. She also KR'd me for wanting to say Hi of course.

I once caught the Director of Processing stealing women's underwear from the Purif lockers. I wrote a KR, but nothing was done.

I remember the ethics officer used to (when going over my O/W writeups) make me explain anything that was sexual in nature in extreme detail, asking all kinds of questions (what did you do with your hand exactly? were you wearing a bra? underwear? what did they look like?) It was extremely creepy and uncomfortable, but was supposed to help me 'as-is' it...I wonder why i never needed to describe all the details of being late to post, or skipping an all-hands...

being screamed at for being a whore and out ethics and a liar when I wrote a KR about being raped by another staff member. Why was it my fault? because his stats on post were up, and mine were down. (Could that possibly have been due to my depression and confusion about being raped by my childhood friend? of course not!:thumbsup: )


There are tons of stories like these, I know many many more just from first hand experience at my org, and we all know there are many many more that haven't been told yet.
 
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