Shooting at Scientology business in Denver

Good twin

Floater
So what I am getting here is that the company is doing poorly, they pick a sucker who has some money and get him to invest (why else would they allow a non-Scio to have a management function in their company?) and when he sees that they have siphoned his money off dishonestly, or that they misrepresented the situation to get him to invest, he says he wants out and wants his money back; he goes to get it, Fowler doesn't have it, Ciancio says he's going legal, Fowler kills him?

That could be the story. It certainly seems all of those elements could easily have been in place. However it's Scientology. There is also the very definite possibility that it's worse than we think. :coolwink:
 

Mockingbird6

Patron with Honors
I'm in Love

Good Twin, I am absolutely in love with your current avatar (the heart with the moving sparkles--you change so often I need to describe it.) Beautiful!
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
So what I am getting here is that the company is doing poorly, they pick a sucker who has some money and get him to invest (why else would they allow a non-Scio to have a management function in their company?) and when he sees that they have siphoned his money off dishonestly, or that they misrepresented the situation to get him to invest, he says he wants out and wants his money back; he goes to get it, Fowler doesn't have it, Ciancio says he's going legal, Fowler kills him?

Apparently, all the employees were required to "invest" part of their paychecks back into the company and would get paid out their investment at severance, but none of them actually did.

None of them pursued it, being good Scns and all that.

Aside from that, my guess is that you're pretty much spot on.
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
At this point, Fowler hasn't even been charged with any crime. :no:

That detail seems to be unimportant to some in this negative PR feeding frenzy. :eyeroll:

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.

not unimportant Michael but not relevant.

This is NOT - in case you missed it - a court of law. Nor is it a journal of record.

It is acquaintances gossiping

and gossip does not get given under oath.

Too bad you don't apply this reasoning whenever someone happens to equally casually speak about their scientology experiences and you demand all sorts of scientific verification of "claims", when it was only "acquaintances gossiping".

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am not anonymous. I *do* forgive.
 
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Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Too bad you don't apply this reasoning whenever someone happens to equally casually speak about their scientology experiences and you demand all sorts of scientific verification of "claims", when it was only "acquaintances gossiping".

Nobody 'demands' anything. We merely say that we consider the claims dubious and the claimer delusional, when not dishonest. There's no 'demand' there. And, no way to enforce a demand anyway.

Zinj
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I refused to join WISE in 2006. They issued a NON-MEMBER against me saying I did not follow LRH policy. I had refused to join because they could not show me an LRH policythat said I had toas well as I was a sole proprietor of a business and they wanted me to pay $600 a year for membership. I wrote it up to RTC and asked for an LRH reference. They sent me a reference about penalties for violating copyrights. I told them I wasn't using LRH tech or policy for profit. They referred the matter to WISE who issued the NON-MEMBER issue. I hadn't been on-lines for five years.

I see that I'm not current on terminology. What the heck is a "NON-MEMBER" issue? Is that something like the "stop service" order they used to do, where if a Scn did not comply with WiSE they could prevent him from getting service in an org?
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
So what I am getting here is that the company is doing poorly, they pick a sucker who has some money and get him to invest (why else would they allow a non-Scio to have a management function in their company?) and when he sees that they have siphoned his money off dishonestly, or that they misrepresented the situation to get him to invest, he says he wants out and wants his money back; he goes to get it, Fowler doesn't have it, Ciancio says he's going legal, Fowler kills him?

That's the impression that I get, that Ciancio wanted the money due him.

My speculation has been that Fowler thought he could screw Ciancio out of it, thinking that Ciancio didn't have the resources to pursue the matter in court, the Ciancio told him that his father and sister were prominent attorneys, father an ex-judge, sis an ex-prosecutor, and Fowler flipped out when he realized that he was screwed.

I would not be surprised to find out that Fowler was doing some hanky-panky with client software systems, in the service of OSA Info, and Ciancio knew or suspected enough to cause a major flap.
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
I see that I'm not current on terminology. What the heck is a "NON-MEMBER" issue? Is that something like the "stop service" order they used to do, where if a Scn did not comply with WiSE they could prevent him from getting service in an org?

Yep. I got threatened with a "stop service" when I didn't want to do a WISE mediation. Nor was I willing to pay the individual membership of $50. I told my ethics officer I didn't care. So, he told me if WISE pushed the "stop service" he'd tell them to F off. He knew as well as I did, the mediation was BS.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Too bad you don't apply this reasoning whenever someone happens to equally casually speak about their scientology experiences and you demand all sorts of scientific verification of "claims", when it was only "acquaintances gossiping".

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am not anonymous. I *do* forgive.

Scientology is a "belief" based system, built entirely on speculation, and, as has been proven, fails for most people.

This case is "fact" based, and leaves no room for speculation. I previously asked a bunch of forensic questions which publicly remain unanswered. Those questions, and others like them, will be relevant to establishing guilt or innocence.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I see that I'm not current on terminology. What the heck is a "NON-MEMBER" issue? Is that something like the "stop service" order they used to do, where if a Scn did not comply with WiSE they could prevent him from getting service in an org?

In 2003 WISE Info Letter 36 "ARE YOU WITH US?" was issued. In it it cited the DIV 6C QUALIY CHECKLIST as the order from LRH to join WISE. Point 33 of the Checklist says: "Buisnessmen who are on lines are introduced to WISE and signed up as members." The info letter goes on to state that if you are in disagreement with that then you are probably in disagreement with LRH. So if you don't join WISE a NON-MEMBER issue is released warning others about you and not to do business with you. This is the method of getting memberships for WISE employed today. Sign up or else.

Does that do it?
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
In 2003 WISE Info Letter 36 "ARE YOU WITH US?" was issued. In it it cited the DIV 6C QUALIY CHECKLIST as the order from LRH to join WISE. Point 33 of the Checklist says: "Buisnessmen who are on lines are introduced to WISE and signed up as members." The info letter goes on to state that if you are in disagreement with that then you are probably in disagreement with LRH. So if you don't join WISE a NON-MEMBER issue is released warning others about you and not to do business with you. This is the method of getting memberships for WISE employed today. Sign up or else.

Does that do it?

I highly doubt that LRH ever saw the Div 6C quality checklist, much less order anyone to join WISE. The culties have lost it, big time. :no:
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Pesonally I would like to do a comparison of the first printing of the OEC's to the ones that are out now.

I bought the latest Management series which is on CD.

I noted that thwre were many revised finance issues with revisions as late as 2004. I wonder what garage in California they found those original, on source, exactly as LRH intended and fully intact they found them in?
Nor is LRH best known for his works dated 2003. ;)
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
In 2003 WISE Info Letter 36 "ARE YOU WITH US?" was issued. In it it cited the DIV 6C QUALIY CHECKLIST as the order from LRH to join WISE. Point 33 of the Checklist says: "Buisnessmen who are on lines are introduced to WISE and signed up as members." The info letter goes on to state that if you are in disagreement with that then you are probably in disagreement with LRH. So if you don't join WISE a NON-MEMBER issue is released warning others about you and not to do business with you. This is the method of getting memberships for WISE employed today. Sign up or else.

Does that do it?

Thanks! That clears up a lot. So if you are a business owner you are required to join WISE in order to be allowed to do business with other Scns. I also vaguely remember an issue posted on an org bulletin board saying you needed to be a WISE member in order to employ other Scns.

Back in the early 80's I remember looking through the WISE contract, with its parts on how WISE could send in a mission when it felt like, and you would have to pay for it. I remember saying "I'm not signing THIS", having realized they could siphon any amount of money they felt like though this mechanism.

WISE also had the attitude that they wanted your company to be big enough and generating enough income "that it would be worth managing". I remember thinking "Oh, so before I get any management guidance, I have to first demonstrate that I don't need your guidance". Nice.
 

auntpat

Patron with Honors
AARRGGHH

This Thread started out about 2 guys shot, etc. What the hell happened. Has anyone been charged for anything or what?:omg:
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
This Thread started out about 2 guys shot, etc. What the hell happened. Has anyone been charged for anything or what?:omg:

No charges filed yet:

The fatal shooting of Tommy Ciancio is still under review by prosecutors, and a decision on filing criminal charges was not reached Tuesday, said Krista Flanagan, spokeswoman for the Adams County district attorney.

Ciancio, the 42-year-old chief operating officer at Fowler Software Design, was shot several times in the head at work on Dec. 20. Rex Fowler, who owned the company, was critically injured with a gunshot wound to the head.

Fowler was being treated at Denver Health Medical Center, but a hospital spokesman on Tuesday said Fowler was no longer in their patient database and no information was available on his condition.

Where's Fowler right now?
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
In 2003 WISE Info Letter 36 "ARE YOU WITH US?" was issued. In it it cited the DIV 6C QUALIY CHECKLIST as the order from LRH to join WISE. Point 33 of the Checklist says: "Buisnessmen who are on lines are introduced to WISE and signed up as members." The info letter goes on to state that if you are in disagreement with that then you are probably in disagreement with LRH.
Does that do it?

I highly doubt that LRH ever saw the Div 6C quality checklist, much less order anyone to join WISE.

The Divisional Quality Checklists were originally Flag Divisional Directives (FDD's) and were printed on the appropriate divisional color flash paper. At the bottom they each said they were written "by" the appropriate Divisional Head at Flag Command Bureaux (now Flag Management) "for Quality Exec Int" (Int Exec Strata under ED Int) and "approved by AVC Int" (RTC)
I saw all of these myself personally when I was the SHSBC Course Admin at ASHO Foundation (1991-1994).

Not one of these "Divisional Quality Checklists" was ever authored or approved by Ron Hubbard.

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
This Thread started out about 2 guys shot, etc. What the hell happened. Has anyone been charged for anything or what?:omg:

We're waiting. But while you wait you can go check out "Juicy stuff coming out soon" We're waiting there too.:whistling:

No charges filed yet:

Where's Fowler right now?

Hiding from the law! You gotta wonder where he got off to. Flag, Freewinds, 24 hour watch?

OK, this is "scary". Someone who has been shot through the brain should still be in hospital. I know that the u.s. medical system is completely without compassion, but to discharge someone with this type of injury so soon is criminal in itself. He should have been under police watch, so how has he "disappeared"?
 
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