Slander from WWP

[well_that_sucked]

Are you really surprised that someone with scat in their name is talking shit?

 

[xseaorguk]

WWP site

I only recently discovered the WWP site (about 2 weeks ago), as I had heard of it from some Anons. I became a member.
I noticed immed. that it was a different public to this site, although it seems to have mainly to do with the Cult we also protest.
When I noticed that a critical post of mine had been removed (which, I'm sure would have been posted here on ESMB) I realized that they are obviously not advocates of free speech on the net, altho they reckon they are fighting for it.
Altho some of the info is good I noticed it is used by many as a sort of personal blogg to chat with their mates, which is fully ok, but not what I'm looking for.
Maybe I'm too old and a serious-'fag' for saying that, but I also prefer a certain etiquette.
They get off on insulting people, making fun, but very often seems to me like a form of bullying which is 'accepted' on the net.
Thanks for this site and they way it is built up etc. Emma.

 

[HCObringOrder?]

Carmel is Famous!

Are you really surprised that someone with scat in their name is talking shit?

True, the term scat has that meaning, but there is another meaning as well.
Perhaps that person is referencing one of these famous Scatman:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scatman_John
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scatman_Crothers

I do not condone the actions of that person, but I believe that I can see their viewpoint somewhat.
As in many cases, I believe that person's viewpoint is from fear.
That person is looking for someone to strike at, and they do not have a very clear view of their world.

As previous posts have stated, perhaps the best tact is to ignore the posturing as best you can Carmel.
You have enough on your plate these days, and as you have stated here, your stats clearly are high.

Inherently because of the Anon Internet culture, there will be some extremists in points of view.
As in most humans, there are the sane and the not so sane, and then you have the not so smart as well.

 

[byte301]

Carmel, don't worry about shitman. An appropriate name for him, imo. Nobody pays much attention to his stupid posts anyway. He is a moron.

We know who you are and what's going on around here.

 

[skollie]

BTW--thanks again for providing ESMB, it's an amazing community.

I echo what Michelle has posted. This is a wonderful, respectful and mature site. I enjoy my visits here. Thank you!

 

[Wisened One]

Wow we're gettin lots of newbies lately,

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

...
We got out about 50 in the first six weeks, and another 100 or so directly or indirectly since. Friends who we helped get to wake up to what the real scene is, are now helping their old friends do the same.

Now THAT is what I call a statistic.
Gold Meritorius ESMB Crusader, or something.

If more ESMB members had stats like that, the world would definitely be a better place.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Now THAT is what I call a statistic.
Gold Meritorius ESMB Crusader, or something.

If more ESMB members had stats like that, the world would definitely be a better place.

Yes, indeed. Definitely worth drawing attention to.



Paul

 

[dr3k]

Since no one from WWP reads this site and no one from here (or barely no one) reads WWP what's the big deal?

BTW,

Cool story bro.

 

[Once bitten]

Love ya darl

Hey, Carmel - This can only mean one thing .... that you are having an effect. It's hard to stay on top, and you are an amazingly passionate person. Passionate about everything you do and that's why we love you.

Hang in there girlie, chin up, and don't let these turkeys get you down. Don't explain anything to these losers, you just carry on doing what you've always done. Your knowledgeable advice and sensible opinions are extremely valuable on this board, even if at times people don't always agree with you. That's what getting out of scn is all about - having the ability to disagree and feel safe expressing veiwpoints.


Love ya darl...

 

[RogerB]

Carmel, My Lovely


Sweetness, remember my PM to you.

When someone doesn't or refuses to duplicate the truth of you, but instead runs lies on you, it acts as a wrong item/wrong indication.

You don't have to duplicate or accept their shit. Leave it with them . . . poor them. It's them what are missing out on the goodies.

Though I know one can be upset at the notion that others might be negatively influenced by the shit . . . . them wot are dull enough to believe the crap as presented with all of its out-points and obvious nastiness and ill intent is not someone you ought be too concerned about being "liked" by.

Be empowered by the goodies who can duplicate the truth of you

R

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

A day ahead!

Hey Carmel and all you lovely Kiwi/Aussie ladies - Happy Valentine's day!

RogerB and others have said all that needs to be said on the subject of "slander".

I sure hope the blokes at your respective houses appreciate what they have in you, Darlin' girls - have a wonderful day! EP

 

[lionheart]

Reading this I was immediately reminded of the PM that was sent to Emma and was published by her. This is the second OSA attack in recent weeks.

I'm way out of date on things CofS, but I operate on the basis that nothing really changes with them because they are stuck in LRH dogma from the 50's to 70's.

So to understand what is going on I go back to the old GO tech for handling dissidents. I assume OSA still dutifully apply it.

The Standard Scientology tech that LRH developed for his "enemies" was refined by his GO slaves Mary Sue, Jane Kember and David Gaiman.

That Hubbard Standard tech was to find out an "enemy's" emotional points (he called them "buttons") and to press them to get the "enemy" to react. The idea was to spread discord amongst "enemies", to set one against the other and have the dissident group cave itself in by in-fighting.

This is Standard Scientology tech and I assume Miscavige is doing his best (as we all did when we were Scns) to apply Ron's standard tech.

It is obvious that WWP and ESMB will be infiltrated by OSA. But we don't need to carry out a who is OSA? witchhunt. That would be what OSA want in order to carry out their purpose of destroying the dissident message boards.

All we have to do is not react to their button-pushing. (easier to say than do - but we benefit if we try not to react). We simply don't play their enemy game we don't play the enemy role that they want us to play. Just ignore their application of LRH's cruel standard tech!

 

[Telepathetic]

Tonight a friend directed me to some current crap BS about me and ESMB on WWP. This person who posted obviously is a member here, or lurks here, or is closely connected with someone who does, so I'll bring it up here, on ESMB.

Here are a couple of the posts, posted on WWP:

1) Originally posted by Scatman
One of the moderators who goes by the name of Carmel, was a "spokesperson" for the cofs just a few years ago and actually still has a scilon webpage. The esmb admin appointed her as a moderator. She definitely comes across as a scilon, possibly because she still thinks likes one, but perhaps she never really left.

2) Originally Posted by Delusions Of Adequacy
In Sydney, there've been quite a large number of public and staff who all "blew" around the same time. Since then, some of them have been doing their best to reach out to their friends who're still in; apparently with some success:
Copypasta from ESMB :
- "Not blowing them out of the water with any real or perceived negativity re LRH, or the tech. It's not their reality and they'll just reject it (and probably whoever is suggesting it). That's something that they can stumble across, look at and work out for themselves - at a later time when they have an open mindset."

Scatman's response to Delusions of Adequacy
I think it is interesting that Carmel Underwood is so protective of Hubbard for victims of scientology who are newly out. Kind of like being protective of Hitler to concentration camp victims after WW2 or protective of Stalin after his reign of terror in the Soviet Union. Carmel Underwood thinks she knows how it is for all new escapees, but that is the same authoritarian dogma that is the basis for the scientologist mentality. Perhaps Carmel should devote more time to her own recovery and less to presuming what ex-scilons need.

What is this Scatman? Are you speaking on behalf of someone else who gave you this info, or did you just simply make it up?

- Who said that I was a moderator? If you knew me, you would probably know that I would be a last choice - I have a short wick at times, and besides that, I have enough to do without taking on a hat like that.

- Who said I was a spokesperson for the CofS? I have never been! I was involved in a dissemination project about 12 or 13 years ago, and I was "quoted" in the papers, but it wasn't me who was being quoted. It was an SO member from OSA (pretending to be me), and they did it behind my back - The CO OSA didn't trust me to keep my PR in enough, to talk to the press. I found out after the fact. And, I haven't been involved or onside with the CofS for nearly eleven years now.

- Yes, I have got one of those web pages. One night we went to an event. We were all supposed to go to these computer terminals and enter some stuff in them. As it turned out, there weren't enough computers, so they got us to jot down some stuff and said they would do the rest. I remember wondering what the hell it was at the time - I didn't know what the internet was then. If I could get rid of that damn page I would. I've writen to the CofS, said that I am dead filed officially, and to remove it. I'm not sure what to do about that, and I know others are in the same boat.

- Maybe I do come across as a scilon, I don't really give a fuck! The suggestion that I never really left, makes you look like the fuckwit, not me!

- For the record (in reference to Delusions of Adequecy's post), a large number of public from Sydney didn't just "blow" at the same time. Feral and I got on the net at the same time, realised the actual scene about the same time, then worked together on getting many of our friends, past selectees, and co-staffers to look, see and get out. We spent hours and hours for weeks and weeks. Talking, copying and pasting, emailing, writing up our own stories, directing people to ESMB, etc, etc, etc. We got out about 50 in the first six weeks, and another 100 or so directly or indirectly since. Friends who we helped get to wake up to what the real scene is, are now helping their old friends do the same.

- Regarding me being protective of Hubbard for victims of scientology, I suggest Scatman, that you get your head out of your arse! I'll do what works with the least amount of harm. I learnt heaps in scn, and one of those things I learnt was that if I wanted to help or assist someone who couldn't see the wood from the trees, then I had damn well better step in their shoes, empathize with them, and not blow them out of the water or my chances of helping them, by being an arrogant arsehole and enforcing my reality.

- I don't "think I know how it is for all new escapees" - I do know though, how I have personally gotten about 50 people to wake up and get out of the CofS's clutches. Because I have had success, I'll pass that information on, to whoever wants it, and I'll keep doing what I'm doing. And by by the way, my main attention is not on the "escapees" or "ex-scilons" - it's on those who have yet to escape.

So that's where I'm at. Where are you at Scatman? Who are you? How many people have you directly helped, wake up to the trap and get out?

What's your intention or agenda for slagging me and ESMB ? (as you did on another post not quoted here). I'd be asking whose fucking side are you on, cause it sure as hell doesn't look like you are on the side of those who want to see people "out" and on the road to recovery.

Why DO you protest?

Carmel

You guys Down Under rule I never imagined you'd handled so many people to leave! Congratulations

Write up your successful actions

I have only been able to extract 3 individuals form the cult and it feels great.

My best wishes to y'all


TP

 

[dr3k]

Reading this I was immediately reminded of the PM that was sent to Emma and was published by her. This is the second OSA attack in recent weeks.

I'm way out of date on things CofS, but I operate on the basis that nothing really changes with them because they are stuck in LRH dogma from the 50's to 70's.

So to understand what is going on I go back to the old GO tech for handling dissidents. I assume OSA still dutifully apply it.

The Standard Scientology tech that LRH developed for his "enemies" was refined by his GO slaves Mary Sue, Jane Kember and David Gaiman.

That Hubbard Standard tech was to find out an "enemy's" emotional points (he called them "buttons") and to press them to get the "enemy" to react. The idea was to spread discord amongst "enemies", to set one against the other and have the dissident group cave itself in by in-fighting.

This is Standard Scientology tech and I assume Miscavige is doing his best (as we all did when we were Scns) to apply Ron's standard tech.

It is obvious that WWP and ESMB will be infiltrated by OSA. But we don't need to carry out a who is OSA? witchhunt. That would be what OSA want in order to carry out their purpose of destroying the dissident message boards.

All we have to do is not react to their button-pushing. (easier to say than do - but we benefit if we try not to react). We simply don't play their enemy game we don't play the enemy role that they want us to play. Just ignore their application of LRH's cruel standard tech!

Do you have any data to prove this attack is from OSA? It seems to me that it's just some jerkoff on the Internet being a loser.

 

[Alanzo]

Do you have any data to prove this attack is from OSA? It seems to me that it's just some jerkoff on the Internet being a loser.

I would have written, "'toothless' jerkoff on the Internet being a loser", but well said any way.

 

[Carmel]

God. If you don't like total crap, especially total crap about yourself, then don't spread it around! Shit-talking from WWP (pretty much the national sport over there) has nothing to do with ESMB.

I don't really give two hoots about the actual crap that was "spread around" -I was pissed off tho, when I discovered that someone who I believe knows me (or at least someone who has had previous communication with me), attempted to discredit me in such a covert manner - mouthing off BS in a place where there are ESMBers.

If I cared about the actual crap that was said, rather than the fact that this person was saying it, then I wouldn't have been so glutz PR-ish and forwarded it in the first place on my op.

I had two reasons for posting this stuff. One was to let the person know that I knew, and the second (rightly or wrongly) was to expose that it was being done. I wanted to for my sake. When I did that (ie after I pushed the submit button), I started to chill out, and I did. I have many friends on this board and I love it - ESMB and it's connections has given me a future to look forward to again. Many here know me now and I know the many I care about wouldn't take this crap on board in a fit.

We all do what we need to do, to get upset out of our world, when and if it comes down like a ton of bricks. Telling it how it was (which included "spreading this crap around"), is how I got the upset out of mine.

<snip>

Also, are you sure this is really relevant for the fabulous Ex-Scientology Message Board? Perhaps it would be better to leave it with those loveable clowns over at Why We Protest.

Anything that cuts one's reach, or prevents one from a happy mindset, is highly relevant. Putting cards on the table, is always a good therapy. Now that I have done that, I can leave it be. I am quite capable of stepping up - in the future it would take a shitload more than the likes of the posts I saw last night, to get me rattled like that again.

Surely this will be a distraction from the all important "freezone success story" thread.

Heaven forbid! Maybe I should have thought about that

There, does that satisfy your delicate sensibilities?

Hardly, it takes a lot to do that - hence my intense interest in the freezone. (but that's another story )

 

[lionheart]

Do you have any data to prove this attack is from OSA? It seems to me that it's just some jerkoff on the Internet being a loser.

Of course I don't! You don't think OSA are so stupid as to leave proof lying around, do you?

If it looks like OSA, smells like OSA and behaves like OSA ....

The old GO used to use "jerkoffs" to carry out their dirty work for them, especially when it came to dissident groups.

Carmel's natural reaction, like Emma's with her PM, was is to wonder who it is on ESMB who are behind the "attack". This is a natural reaction that OSA trade in in order to cave in groups critical of the CofS.

The originator of the "attack" is most likely not OSA, but being manipulated behind the scenesl by PM by OSA. That's the most likely scenario.

Let me sort of turn your question around:- Do you seriously think OSA won't be trying to run ops like this to cave in the disident/protest movement?

The solution is simply to work out what OSA's goals and methods are and then not play their "enemy" game.

 

[Carmel]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for all the communication on this - it's now all good my end, and I can forget about it! No doubt there'll be more crap in the future, but I don't reckon it will phase me anywhere near as much. There's a first for everything, and yes, I am learning lessons about the internet . This net of ours is such a gift and a wonderful thing mostly - love it, love it, love it!

Love,
Carmel

 

[nexus100]

Perhaps close the thread?