ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
Probably for the same reasons people try heroine for the first time. There are audit junkies on this board who still are in denial, acting as if Scientology is anything other than a con
So, I'm taking a course at a Mission today.
- Thread starter Esion
- Start date
Probably for the same reasons people try heroine for the first time. There are audit junkies on this board who still are in denial, acting as if Scientology is anything other than a con
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Not the same. It's one thing to go into a Church of Scientology, now, knowing what is available on the web about that organization, and it's entirely another to make use of the knowledge you obtained while a scientologist to continue to make improvements in your own life or others. Would I advise others to go to the Church to learn what I learned? HELL NO! However, what I learned that was of value is freely available at the http://www.freezoneearth.org/Clearbird/index.htm if you want it in Scientologese, or through various other forums if you want it in their language. The truth is the truth, whatever language in which it is spoken, and while the Church of Scientology fucks people up with it, that's not it's only use. Restudy "Excalibur": it's a two-edged sword.
Free to shine
Shiny & Free
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
Scientology is a scam, there is no such thing as a reformed scam, a scam is a scam. Whether you practice Hubbard's drug riddled fantasies within the cult or in the freezone, it's still a bridge to nowhere. Just the fact that people have reduced the value of Hubbard's so called tech to wasting your time picking the needles out of Hubbard's mountain of hay, should tell you something right there. Spending your life in a trance looking for imaginary spiritual parasites to blame your problems on is no way to go through life, and that is exactly where Hubbard's bridge leads ... no matter how much lipstick the freezone or anyone else tries to apply to this pig.
Well, I'm certainly not a positively popular person on this forum now.
I've connected with the appropriate FreeZoners in my area. The communications course has been highly recommended by them, however, they are only offering auditing. I will eventually take the course at the mission, and then continue my study in the FreeZone. I will post updates in the future for those who care to follow.
Thanks to those who've helped
I've connected with the appropriate FreeZoners in my area. The communications course has been highly recommended by them, however, they are only offering auditing. I will eventually take the course at the mission, and then continue my study in the FreeZone. I will post updates in the future for those who care to follow.
Thanks to those who've helped
alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, I'm certainly not a positively popular person on this forum now.
I've connected with the appropriate FreeZoners in my area. The communications course has been highly recommended by them, however, they are only offering auditing. I will eventually take the course at the mission, and then continue my study in the FreeZone. I will post updates in the future for those who care to follow.
Thanks to those who've helped
Good on you. You are a true adventurer.
One sign that you are getting near something interesting is all the noise that attacks you or what you are doing!
Above all keep your own counsel.
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
Why would you say that? People are just expressing their honest opinions, don't take it personally.
Would you rather be lied to?
If so, the cult of Scientology is right up your ally
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Chuck, I get your viewpoint. We disagree. I'm not interested in plucking parasites from myself forever, either. I am interested in "discharging my case", and in "discharging others case", where "charge" is understood as "repressed, unfulfilled intention", and "case" is the aggregation of undischarged issues a person has built up. I think the way described at ClearBird would work (whether it was Hubbard or a council of thousands who made it), and have had success with some of it's procedures. However, I'm not a Scientologist, myself. I use Metapsychology and it's primary workhorse procedure, TIR, in my own practice.
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
Considering Scientology as anything more than a as a means to produce income or a hobby is silly, especially knowing what people on this board know about it. I too can claim playing guitar or running every morning "discharges my case" but that doesn't make it any more true than having my skin's resistance make an Ohm meter's analog needle wiggle. Scientology is a con created by a well trained stage hypnotist to manipulate people, if you aren't making money off of it or entertaining yourself with it, you are wasting your time. The only truths we know about Scientology is it has never produced a single Clear or OT, in the cult or Freezone.
3rdman
Patron
Well, I'm certainly not a positively popular person on this forum now.
I've connected with the appropriate FreeZoners in my area. The communications course has been highly recommended by them, however, they are only offering auditing. I will eventually take the course at the mission, and then continue my study in the FreeZone. I will post updates in the future for those who care to follow.
Thanks to those who've helped
Woah wait. Freezoners recommended you take a Scientology course provided BY Co$? I think you've been had. Doesn't seem likely the Freezone would recommend people go to Co$ to learn Scientology. (sry Freezone if I am getting this wrong, I am under the impression you guys don't associate with Co$, except for convincing people to leave and practice Scientology without paying away their life).
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Depends on the Freezoner. When people are determined to take the "Success Through Communication Course", and nobody in the the FZ is offering it, there's really only one place to go. And if, after all the warnings, the person chooses to do their course at the Church, well, can't say they weren't warned.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Again, we disagree. You cosider it a con, Chuck. Certainly, selling states like "Clear" and "OT" is a con. However, claiming that it can help people to overcome emotional trouble (not that it ALWAYS does, mind you, but that it CAN), is another story.
I've made a grand total of about 300 dollars auditing people in my life. I'll probably make a lot more than that if I ever end up doing it professionally. However, I'd never do it with any false claims, or hyped adverts. Instead, I'll work by adverts like "Need to talk to someone about something that's been bothering you? Call ###-####." etc.
I understand where you're coming from, I think, though.
I've made a grand total of about 300 dollars auditing people in my life. I'll probably make a lot more than that if I ever end up doing it professionally. However, I'd never do it with any false claims, or hyped adverts. Instead, I'll work by adverts like "Need to talk to someone about something that's been bothering you? Call ###-####." etc.
I understand where you're coming from, I think, though.
alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
And besides it would be good experience for this obviously strong willed person to have some first hand experience of the church so that he can see what we are all talking about.
well_that_sucked
Patron with Honors
Scientology Training Routines
" As I took these TRs at the local Scientology Mission, I quickly learned that the students on course actually taught each other. It's a great way for the Co$ to collect the $250 registration fee and reduce their staff overhead. After introducing myself to another slightly confused man in his mid 30s, we sat in front of each other, eyes closed, for the required time. I could hear him breathing, creaking in his foldup chair, and the sound of the other students sequestered in their exercises.
This was my first encounter with sensory deprivation, hypnosis, and mind control. The hypnotic techniques used in OT TR0 are sensory deprivation and stress, which produces an altered state of conciousness. In the Philadelphia Doctorate Course tapes, Hubbard says that closing your eyes puts you into a light hypnotic trance. So here, L Ron lies about training you to "confront". In fact, he is putting you into a trance - a trance that is built upon with "the gradient", and which becomes the basis for auditing.
The sensory deprivation is audio as well as visual. While I cannot recall the audio, the TR was done in a large course room where other students are doing TRs. I heard all of the scieno-babble, which causes confusion and lowers your mind's defenses. Of course, the visual was completely cut off, creating some apprehension. I was sitting with my knees almost touching his. Violating someone's personal space, as well as being violated yourself creates more stress and apprehension. "
" As I took these TRs at the local Scientology Mission, I quickly learned that the students on course actually taught each other. It's a great way for the Co$ to collect the $250 registration fee and reduce their staff overhead. After introducing myself to another slightly confused man in his mid 30s, we sat in front of each other, eyes closed, for the required time. I could hear him breathing, creaking in his foldup chair, and the sound of the other students sequestered in their exercises.
This was my first encounter with sensory deprivation, hypnosis, and mind control. The hypnotic techniques used in OT TR0 are sensory deprivation and stress, which produces an altered state of conciousness. In the Philadelphia Doctorate Course tapes, Hubbard says that closing your eyes puts you into a light hypnotic trance. So here, L Ron lies about training you to "confront". In fact, he is putting you into a trance - a trance that is built upon with "the gradient", and which becomes the basis for auditing.
The sensory deprivation is audio as well as visual. While I cannot recall the audio, the TR was done in a large course room where other students are doing TRs. I heard all of the scieno-babble, which causes confusion and lowers your mind's defenses. Of course, the visual was completely cut off, creating some apprehension. I was sitting with my knees almost touching his. Violating someone's personal space, as well as being violated yourself creates more stress and apprehension. "
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Yes, and I imagine that watching a movie for two hours in a darkened room is also a form of sensory deprivation (while specifically training your attention on a focus point/screen).
So what?
So what?
CornPie
Patron Meritorious
Esion -- They will "not" pass you out of the Communications Course, until you have pre-paid for another scientology course. Their logic; if you don't want more scientology, there must be something wrong. (Which of course is true in this case, because you're violating their rules, by posting here on ESMB.)
As long as you've already made your decision to take the Comm Course, why don't you help us prove this out. Plus you can have a little fun with them. But don't let them know what you're up to, and don't tell anybody. Just don't sign up for any courses or auditing -- you just need to be tough enough to keep saying no to the reg'es. (That should be a challenge of its own.) Be sure to keep your story/lies straight, with everybody you talk to. Then you will see that they won't "pass" you out of the Comm Course, but you will still derive the so-called benefits. Please keep us advised as to how it goes.
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ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
I was down in Ponce Puerto Rico on business in the early 90s, It was a Thursday; I was waiting for a package to delivered to my client's facility which I needed in order to finish my assignment on Friday and catch my scheduled flight from San Juan Friday evening. Late Thursday Afternoon, I was informed by FedEx that the package would not arrive until Monday Morning. I could not get a room at only decent hotel in Ponce at the time over the weekend and needed to return my rental car to San Juan anyway, since they would not allow me to extend my rental either, without hitting me with a huge fee since it was right in the middle of tourist season.
By time I got up to San Juan Friday afternoon in was pouring rain and the weekend rental car rates were a total ripoff. I happen to look at a monitor which had weather reports for the surrounding islands and noticed St. Thomas looked Sunny, as I was rescheduling my return flight I asked if any flights were leaving to St. Thomas. I was informed one was leaving in 30 minutes and the cost of the round trip flight was roughly what the cost of a single day car rental for Saturday if I stayed in San Juan.
Needless to say I caught the flight to beautiful St. Thomas but was still stressed out about, my circumstances and having to wait until Monday to finish my assignment. I happened to get a room at a motel within walking distance from the airport which even came with a free complimentary drink at it's Tiki Bar overlooking the ocean, and was about half the price of the room I would have been staying at in rainy St Juan. After I checked in, I unloaded by two pieces of luggage changed into beach wear and proceeded to have that complimentary drink, as I waited for the drink to arrive, nervously tapping my foot, and after about the third time I looked at my wrist to check the time, each time noticing that I left my watch back in the room. I finally asked a local who was also sitting at the bar "What time it was" He paused for a moment, gave me a look as if I was crazy, then looked up at the sky and said "Daytime" Well from that moment on I was relaxed as could be and the rest of my trip was an absolute pleasure. It's almost twenty years later I still do not wear a watch.
Now if I was in Scientology, I would be claiming my OT powers got me to St. Thomas and I would be thanking Ron, for the local in the bar bitchslapping me into present time.
The point I'm making, it's not Scientology that changed my emotional state that day or is helping other change their emotional state either. It is basic self help concepts routinely practiced by many people, most without even knowing it. Hubbard happen to package them so he could manipulate people with them and sell them as Scientology. Yes Scientology is a con
Hip Hip Hooray and Thanks Ron for being such a douche bag
justaguy
Patron Meritorious
There was a study once (my brain is fuzzy on the details), but it went something like they had two researches come in and argue in front of half of the subjects and they had a video of two people arguing they showed to the other half of the subjects, and the same parts of the brain lit up and to similar extents in both groups.
/end digression
Veda
Sponsor
Referring to "TR 0 -4," all but "OT TR 0" are done with eyes open.
When I first did the "Comm Course," there was no eyes-closed TR-0, there was only TR-0, and it was done for two hours straight, and then it was on to "Bull baiting" and then to "TR-1," etc. My first TR-0 twin was a guy who - at lunch break - followed me out of the Org and to a restaurant, where he sat with me and told me how, in the future, when we're all "OT 8s" (then the top and final OT level), the rest - who remained non-Scientologists - would have to be isolated on an island away from the rest of us. This didn't seem like a good idea to me, and I was glad when he wasn't on the course when I continued with it that afternoon. It took two days, left me fairly impervious to normally unpleasant stimuli (except from Scientology), which was a fairly enjoyable feeling, a tendency not to blink, and to calmly acknowledge people.
I found it to be a positive experience, although, looking back, can see how it "set me up" for deeper involvement.
The most notable Comm Course story, of which I know, is a fellow who did the just released "Hard TRs Course," that this person regarded as an inexpensive means of therapy for his wife (it cost, I think, 35 dollars) and a kind of odd head-trip for himself.
It took about a month, and I think his wife benefited - was more emotionally stable - and he seemed to get a kick out of it too.
This person had the wisdom to recognize that this was probably as good as Scientology was going to get - especially judging by money-spent/potential benefit ratio - and firmly rejected any future involvement with Scientology afterwards.
He ensured this future non-involvement in a novel manner, when he wrote his "Success Story" at the end of the course, describing how (to paraphrase) "Now that I've completed the Communications Course, I'm going to become a leader in the Hare Krishna movement."
The joke wasn't appreciated, and that ended his and his wife's involvement with Scientology.
For what it's worth, here's a thread on TRs:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=944
When I first did the "Comm Course," there was no eyes-closed TR-0, there was only TR-0, and it was done for two hours straight, and then it was on to "Bull baiting" and then to "TR-1," etc. My first TR-0 twin was a guy who - at lunch break - followed me out of the Org and to a restaurant, where he sat with me and told me how, in the future, when we're all "OT 8s" (then the top and final OT level), the rest - who remained non-Scientologists - would have to be isolated on an island away from the rest of us. This didn't seem like a good idea to me, and I was glad when he wasn't on the course when I continued with it that afternoon. It took two days, left me fairly impervious to normally unpleasant stimuli (except from Scientology), which was a fairly enjoyable feeling, a tendency not to blink, and to calmly acknowledge people.
I found it to be a positive experience, although, looking back, can see how it "set me up" for deeper involvement.
The most notable Comm Course story, of which I know, is a fellow who did the just released "Hard TRs Course," that this person regarded as an inexpensive means of therapy for his wife (it cost, I think, 35 dollars) and a kind of odd head-trip for himself.
It took about a month, and I think his wife benefited - was more emotionally stable - and he seemed to get a kick out of it too.
This person had the wisdom to recognize that this was probably as good as Scientology was going to get - especially judging by money-spent/potential benefit ratio - and firmly rejected any future involvement with Scientology afterwards.
He ensured this future non-involvement in a novel manner, when he wrote his "Success Story" at the end of the course, describing how (to paraphrase) "Now that I've completed the Communications Course, I'm going to become a leader in the Hare Krishna movement."
The joke wasn't appreciated, and that ended his and his wife's involvement with Scientology.
For what it's worth, here's a thread on TRs:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=944
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uniquemand
Unbeliever
I guess my point is that we often tune out some of our senses in order to tune in others. It's not harmful. When I read, I completely lose track of time, and am often only brought back to the "world" when the phone rings. Is this damaging? Perhaps. I don't think so. My parents did, when I was a kid. What's funny is that I was often brought up as a candidate for ADHD at school. They thought I couldn't focus. Unwillingness is often mistaken for inability.
Back to the point at hand. TRs are often targeted as being "hypnotic" by people who are interested in attacking the Church of Scientology. While I am no friend of the Church's, I'm not interested on attacking them by scapegoating practices which are NOT harmful, and actually are quite beneficial (it's a skill to control your own attention, and to learn to control someone else's attention).
Let's stick to attacking their objectionable actions, like breaking up families, corrupting the legal system, intimidating critics, committing fraud, etc.
Back to the point at hand. TRs are often targeted as being "hypnotic" by people who are interested in attacking the Church of Scientology. While I am no friend of the Church's, I'm not interested on attacking them by scapegoating practices which are NOT harmful, and actually are quite beneficial (it's a skill to control your own attention, and to learn to control someone else's attention).
Let's stick to attacking their objectionable actions, like breaking up families, corrupting the legal system, intimidating critics, committing fraud, etc.
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