So, I'm taking a course at a Mission today.

[Feral]

Well, I'm #101.

Now get to course Esion, you deserve it!

 

[Terril park]

This video has been used extensively by the Scientology Freezone. What isn't usually mentioned is that this person did the Comm Course at a Ron's Orgs Training Camp. Of course he was handled with "kid gloves."

Hardeep mentioned he was training at a Rons Org.

Kid gloves?

I'm personal friends with Max and Erica Hauri and Dominic O' Brian. Hardeep
was not handling them with kid gloves. The opposite of politically correct
and a totally irreverent comedian, happy to take the piss at any time.

The producers had tried to make this film with COS starting in St. Hill, then got referred to LA home of OSA int. They were dicked around for 6 months
and then refused permission to allow filming. Completely screwed up their timetable! So the producer thought He'd try making the film in the Freezone.
Of course Max and Erica were very wary of there being just another hatchet job re scn. But after a meeting they felt that Simon [the producer] was genuine, and so they agreed to co-operate.

Its quite clear that Hardeep was a handfull, and in fact Dominic genuinely didn't want to audit him. See from around 36 mins into the film. However a little later Max figured him that Hardeep was actually ready and willing to try auditing and persuaded Dominic that this was so.

The auditing session was filmed live, and a genuine session. Both Dominic and Hardeep had editing rights on the session. The tears of Hardeeps were genuine.

Kid gloves? I'd say far from it. There was great stress for all here. Max and Erica had a TV crew filming in their orgs, Dominic was having to handle a guy
bullbaiting him constantly, Hardeep had to help create good television, had to
perform as a comedian, thats his job, and had to explore this strange religion.
They ended up being good friends.

OSA tried very hard to get the programme stopped. Dominic was at one point getting visitors from OSA Int visiting 4 or 5 times per day, giving him threats of extreme legal action if he didn't help stop the programme, Channel
4 was constantly threatened with law suits, thats why the programme was not named as the rest of the series " The Beginners guide to [ name of religion]. " Scientology is a trademarked word you see......

In Moscow where most of the filming took place, an OSA plant arrived, and had informed, the intelligence agencies that drug dealing was going on there, and they raided the place. The latter maybe connected with the filming going on, or just business as usual.

The production premises apparently had break in attempts.

What we have here is a far superior and genuine look at beginning scintology than anything COS has ever come up with.

 

[Ted]

Reduced rate?

Not a good idea.

This is one route a person could end up on staff.

"Sure you can have the $50-course for $15, but you will have to keep your exchange in. Here, take these flyers and pass them out. Every day for about a month, that should do it."

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Reduced rate?

Not a good idea.

This is one route a person could end up on staff.

"Sure you can have the $50-course for $15, but you will have to keep your exchange in. Here, take these flyers and pass them out. Every day for about a month, that should do it."

If he's stupid enough to get suckered into doing that, maybe I can talk him into coming over my house and painting it for me too, while I go on vacation.

 

[Esion]

Esion -- They will "not" pass you out of the Communications Course, until you have pre-paid for another scientology course. Their logic; if you don't want more scientology, there must be something wrong. (Which of course is true in this case, because you're violating their rules, by posting here on ESMB.)

As long as you've already made your decision to take the Comm Course, why don't you help us prove this out. Plus you can have a little fun with them. But don't let them know what you're up to, and don't tell anybody. Just don't sign up for any courses or auditing -- you just need to be tough enough to keep saying no to the reg'es. (That should be a challenge of its own.) Be sure to keep your story/lies straight, with everybody you talk to. Then you will see that they won't "pass" you out of the Comm Course, but you will still derive the so-called benefits. Please keep us advised as to how it goes.

That is EXACTLY what I had in mind! I enjoy social engineering and being manipulative when I need to. It'll be fun testing it out on the experts.

I was never told about about a $250 registration fee, let alone being required to pre-pay for another course. It was paraphrased as "This course is $128. Sure, come back when you have the $128." I don't want to make a second trip and experience the same thing as the first time... (oh by the way, it costs x amount, not y.) The drive there and back is an hour >_>

 

[CornPie]

...[scientology] won't negotiate [course] rates. They can't, not since that new computer sytem...

FinallyFree (and anyone familiar with scientology's computer):

Can you tell us more about scientology's "new" computer system:
. How new is it, when was it installed?
. Where's the data reside, on a local PC, a server in the org, on the Internet?
. Can reps out in the field do inquiries into a worldwide database?
. Is there a data "export" capability, to Excel or flat files?
. What sort of login security is there?
. Can one Org "see" the records of another Org?
. Can the "home office" look into the records of all Orgs?
. How feasible would it be for everything to appear on Wiki Leaks?
. What does the computer keep track of:
... Orgs, groups of people, etc.
... Customers.
... Employees.
... Books purchased.
... Course and auditing completions.
... Prepaid courses and auditing.
... Historical status.
... People in the RPF.
... Voting status.
... SP's.
... Courses, prices, descriptions.
... Field Sales Representatives (FSR's).
... Real estate owned.
... Financial information.
... Current and past addresses, phone numbers, connections to others.
... Knowledge Reports, ethics files, PC folders, etc.
... Audio, video of auditing sessions (isn't this now done in Ideal orgs?).
... Many, many others, please specify.
. What if any database is used; SQL Server, MySQL, other?
. What language are the applications written in; java, php, etc?

These are just a few of the questions. I was just hoping to hear somebody ramble on about scientology's computer resources. And what they might allow the general public see.

 

[FinallyFree]

What a great thread.

Here we have Esion who desperately wants to become Ex-Scion and you are trying to impede this. Is this some kind of elite group?

Folks he only wants to do the Comm Course, so he can become an Ex Scio and maybe understand what the blabberings on this board are all about. So just let him do his thing.

Or otherwise can you tell him if there is another way to become an Ex Scio. I don't know of any.

Blabberings? Wow. Interesting choice in words. We were asked for our advice and gave it. If you have a problem with that move to another thread. You state this is a good thread and then knock it. What is your real purpose here?

 

[FinallyFree]

Esion

If you read some of the stories on this board, many will bring you to tears for what ex members have gone through.
There are members who have been disconnected from loved ones,(see Mandy's mom), spent months on RPF and had loved ones die there, (see Uwe Stuckenbrock), and you come here asking advise on doing a course with them? Why oh why, after all the information available regarding SCO, would you willingly want to go and do a course?

I just want to point out to EVERYONE on this thread that advice was ASKED for and is being given. I find it VERY telling that there posts here bashing the people giving advice (or just simply making snide little comments and digs on the posts warning about scn abuses). As I am no longer a scienologist I speak my mind now that I am the one who is controlling it. I will give my advice. I will give my opinion. scientology no longer controls what I think or what I am willing to say out loud. I WILL discuss what happened to me in scientology. I will "tell all" and I will not be silenced by other posters here who hint at any con-scientology posts are insincere. Don't be fooled. I, and many other like me, speak from PERSONAL EXPERIENCES you can't change that. You can't erase it and you can't make it go away. You also can not twist that into a pro-scientology message, no matter what you say or how you say it.

Not even assulting protesters will shut us up.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Well, I am not going to continue with the CofS after I take the Communications course. I merely want to experience this one course that has been getting mixed reviews. The cult happens to offer it, and I'm jumping ship once the course is over.

I'm in the Military. I earn enough to comfortably make ends meet, I don't have the $$$ to move up the bridge if I wanted to. Half the people say it's a good course, others say it's brainwashing. I'd rather decide for myself, and I've decided to try the course... so any help or support in that aspect would be greatly appreciated.

I think it could be fun and could be an adventure. TRs (the drills on the comm course) are fun and helpful. You've been forewarned about the "regging" where they will try to sell you more courses, etc., so just make sure you don't fall for that and you should be fine.

As has been mentioned, any student who finishes a course is expected to commit to taking the next one otherwise the idea is that they didn't really like what they were doing,it didn't work out- and the church can't have THAT. However, I have not seen that you have to completely or even partially PAY for the next service. Just tell 'em, yeah, sure, but I haven't gotten paid yet so I can't put anything down on a/p (advance pay) and then get out of there. Then the only hassle that may result is that they do tend to call and call and write and write. I hope you give them phony information so that they can't do that. Or open a PO box and later close it with no forwarding address. Something like that.

I, for one, would be very interested to hear how it goes. Please update us, if you'd like to do so, or PM me or anyone else, if you wish.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Esion -- They will "not" pass you out of the Communications Course, until you have pre-paid for another scientology course. Their logic; if you don't want more scientology, there must be something wrong.

Cornpie,

My experience and what I remember from reading the HCOB a long time ago, was that one has to COMMIT TO TAKING another service. I never had to prepay the whole damn thing before I could "graduate" the course I'd been on. I just had to say I would take a next service, what it would be, give some particulars. Cuz if the student doesn't have any money right then, then they don't. Esion will just need to b.s. 'em a little which he or she seems prepared to do.

 

[uniquemand]

Or he could skip it.

 

[FinallyFree]

FinallyFree (and anyone familiar with scientology's computer):

Can you tell us more about scientology's "new" computer system:
. How new is it, when was it installed? Okay so it's not that new - installed early 90's
. Where's the data reside, on a local PC, a server in the org, on the Internet? From what I remember.....scn computers are not connect to the internet n any way, they are very careful about that. INCOMM is the group that developed this system and not all of the programmers were scn - I think this changed though mid-developing. You have to understand. Scientology viewed computers as being a point of exposure (haha how little did they expect this to be so very true) so EVERYTHING having anything to do with the scn computers being developed or what the computer contained - is VERY HIGHLY confidential - as confidential as OT III. So not very many staff or S.O. know very many details if any.
. Can reps out in the field do inquiries into a worldwide database? Like I said my knowledge is limited - but I highly doubt it. My personal experiences demonstarted a high level of parania. There was some sort of computer system (NOT a a computer geek here) called MERC (forget what that acranyn stood for - sorry about my spelling people !) where you could search for a policy or tech bulletin with a single word or phrase. Even THAT had VERY limited access. I asked once WHY couldn't staff have access and even public. I didn't understand why policy or lrh "tech" would have limited access to people who wanted to learn....see the consistent naivety in me? Yeah not so much anymore.
. Is there a data "export" capability, to Excel or flat files? Doubt it - from what I know the only thing close to this is the telex system. Anyone have a good explantation of the telex system used in orgs? But at the end of my staff career I was hearind wind that the scino's were going to switch over to e-mail to replace the telex system - once they were able to make it secure enough. I wonder if that ever happened???
. What sort of login security is there? Yyou had a log-in I.D. and a pass word - didn't seem very sofisticated. But that was for invoicing and reports, only certain people had access. Mainly people who accepted the money and invoiced people for their services.
. Can one Org "see" the records of another Org? No, not at org level.
. Can the "home office" look into the records of all Orgs? I can only state my suspicions - I believe so.
. How feasible would it be for everything to appear on Wiki Leaks? would depend on who had access and how much data they could get - I am not sure I understand this question - remember your dealing w/ some one who is not very computer savy (me)
. What does the computer keep track of:
... Orgs, groups of people, etc.
... Customers. (yes)
... Employees. (Yes, there are weekly "computerized reports" that were being sent to "Flag" (aka DM and other Int management) - I forgot about these! - the main data base consist of the customers of scn, their contact info, training level, case level, account details...etc. Geeze IAS membership info, what they have done and what they are making payments toawrds doing in the future.
... Books purchased. Yeppers to this and the next three questions
... Course and auditing completions.
... Prepaid courses and auditing.
... Historical status.
... People in the RPF. S.O. data - so I am not sure
... Voting status.I don't think so -though I will tell you info is passed to staff and S.O.'s about how management wants you to vote which would further the intentions of the scilon "churches"
... SP's.lists are kept and updated. I ams ure this is kept on computers at Int
... Courses, prices, descriptions. Yep- this is how management makes sure org charge full price for eveything. Which would also track the income made so management makes sure to get their cut - hmmmm kinda like the mob - only with out the "shake down"
... Field Sales Representatives (FSR's).definately
... Real estate owned. poss at Int leve
... Financial information.DEFINATELY - I think this is the mAIN reason and purpose for the computers they had instaled in the orgs.
... Current and past addresses, phone numbers, connections to others.with out a doubt - this is also a very key reason for computerization, removing duplicates was a bit depressing. As anyone who receives mail from orgs knows, there are a great number of duplicate addresses/people on their mailing lists/phone lists
... Knowledge Reports, ethics files, PC folders, etc.I personally wasn't aware of these being computerized
... Audio, video of auditing sessions (isn't this now done in Ideal orgs?).sessions are video taped usually as a training purpose for the auditor
... Many, many others, please specify.
. What if any database is used; SQL Server, MySQL, other?sorry - above my head here
. What language are the applications written in; java, php, etc?same - sorry

These are just a few of the questions. I was just hoping to hear somebody ramble on about scientology's computer resources. And what they might allow the general public see.

Here's the deal. When the new computer system went in it was call the "new finance system". It was grared and promoted to staff that this new computer system alone would increase income. What they didn't tell us what that it would increase income for MANAGEMENT. Thew new system put in the standard rates for the services, enforced that ALL public doing services would be IAS memberships - which increases IAS's income for sure. That was how these systems were promoted. What I presonally witnessed was that it gave Int Management more ocntrol over orgs financially. The problem is that the system was developed in secret by S.O. members. Everything about the new computer system was hush hush and you really weren't allowed to talk much about it. Access is not widely given. Mainly Div 2 for promotion (calls and mass mailings) and Registration - for selling and invoiceing public for services. Access is jelously and suspiciously given and your "rights" are highly restricted. I don't know about the details. I CAN tell you that after those computers Management sure started knowing a LOT more than they previously did about what was going on in the org.

 

[Terril park]

Scientology Training Routines

" As I took these TRs at the local Scientology Mission, I quickly learned that the students on course actually taught each other. It's a great way for the Co$ to collect the $250 registration fee and reduce their staff overhead. After introducing myself to another slightly confused man in his mid 30s, we sat in front of each other, eyes closed, for the required time. I could hear him breathing, creaking in his foldup chair, and the sound of the other students sequestered in their exercises.

This was my first encounter with sensory deprivation, hypnosis, and mind control. The hypnotic techniques used in OT TR0 are sensory deprivation and stress, which produces an altered state of conciousness. In the Philadelphia Doctorate Course tapes, Hubbard says that closing your eyes puts you into a light hypnotic trance. So here, L Ron lies about training you to "confront". In fact, he is putting you into a trance - a trance that is built upon with "the gradient", and which becomes the basis for auditing.

The sensory deprivation is audio as well as visual. While I cannot recall the audio, the TR was done in a large course room where other students are doing TRs. I heard all of the scieno-babble, which causes confusion and lowers your mind's defenses. Of course, the visual was completely cut off, creating some apprehension. I was sitting with my knees almost touching his. Violating someone's personal space, as well as being violated yourself creates more stress and apprehension. "

I've done at least 7 lots of TRS including Pro TRs twice, the second of these at Flag. The first one a friend and I did a weekend TRs course at St. Hill. We were both in sales and our sales doubled immediately afterwards and remained at that level.

Its impossible to do this course without " teaching each other". Its a practical set of drills that you have to do with another person. And there will be a supervisor present. Its not some magic bullet where you read a few pages and instantly become a great orator or raconteur. Its bloody hard work and can take a long time.

Having described in detail his sensory imput when doing OT TRO the author then states its " sensory deprivation" and then adds its also hypnosis and mind control.

One assumes this mind control and hypnosis is done by the squeaking chairs.

Note that no one to my knowledge has accused the Zen Bhuddist techniques these drills are based on as mind control and hypnotism.

The author further strenghthens the point he makes that there is auditory deprivation by naming what he heard and describing it as "scienobabble". [ this last is a technical term possibly found in the scientology technical dictionary. ]

Having decided to do a TRs course, and I presume knew what was involved, payed for it and enrolled, the author then describes the course
as primarily " an invasion of personal space". I guess thats between the times he feels he's being hypnotised or mind controlled by squeaky chairs.

One of the end phenomena of pro TRs is along the lines of being able to handle any personal or social situation by communication alone, from here on out.

 

[uniquemand]

Hear hear!

 

[Esion]

That video with Hardeep was definitely interesting! Pretty entertaining.

I will definitely keep everybody up to date on my progress as I take each step. I hope I can bullbait a staff member and get a reaction

I do apologize if I personally offend anybody by financially supporting the Church by taking this course. I'm not a fan of the organization either, and I do see the hypocrisy in it.

On another note, I am excited for it. Almost more excited to experience the famously harsh regging, and saying "No, I didn't feel anything". If they say I wasn't doing it right, I'll ask why they passed me!

 

[alex]

FinallyFree (and anyone familiar with scientology's computer):

snip

These are just a few of the questions. I was just hoping to hear somebody ramble on about scientology's computer resources. And what they might allow the general public see.

General public is not allowed anywhere near any computer in scientology.

They run proprietary custom apps and do not connect to the internet at all.

They have separate systems for external comm on the internet that are physically not connected to the internal systems

They network on dedicated point to point leased lines and microwave. (Thus no internet worries, and physical security)

To "hack" into their system would require physical presence in an org or a telco facility.

There is a fair amount of data about their microwave system on the net though...

 

[Terril park]

That video with Hardeep was definitely interesting! Pretty entertaining.

I will definitely keep everybody up to date on my progress as I take each step. I hope I can bullbait a staff member and get a reaction

I do apologize if I personally offend anybody by financially supporting the Church by taking this course. I'm not a fan of the organization either, and I do see the hypocrisy in it.

On another note, I am excited for it. Almost more excited to experience the famously harsh regging, and saying "No, I didn't feel anything". If they say I wasn't doing it right, I'll ask why they passed me!

There is already a problem. We know OSA reads this forum, if for no other reason but to get intelligence on Carmel and Feral.

They are a bit slow but its best not to give any data here on who and where you are. Also personal data can identify you. So the motto " loose lips sinks ships" applies. In any org, and maybe now missions, OSA will investigate anyone new on course. Standard operating procedure.

You want to bullbait scientologists, its free here. I suggest you stay "low profile "until the course is finished. You say anything they are not happy with you'll be routed to ethics/OSA and investigated. Maybe thrown out. When being sent to the reg after completion, let it rip. On all sales calls
thereafter the same.

Bullbait staff? These are who most here want to rescue. They are for the most part very good people.

I wouldn't worry who you offend, thats something I expect is supported in the UN charter of human rights and is definitely approved of by the Creed
of Scientology.

 

[alex]

There is already a problem. We know OSA reads this forum, if for no other reason but to get intelligence on Carmel and Feral.

They are a bit slow but its best not to give any data here on who and where you are. Also personal data can identify you. So the motto " loose lips sinks ships" applies. In any org, and maybe now missions, OSA will investigate anyone new on course. Standard operating procedure.

You want to bullbait scientologists, its free here. I suggest you stay "low profile "until the course is finished. You say anything they are not happy with you'll be routed to ethics/OSA and investigated. Maybe thrown out. When being sent to the reg after completion, let it rip. On all sales calls
thereafter the same.

Bullbait staff? These are who most here want to rescue. They are for the most part very good people.

I wouldn't worry who you offend, thats something I expect is supported in the UN charter of human rights and is definitely approved of by the Creed
of Scientology.

Good advice. Its hard to get the value out of the course if your agenda includes other things.

Do the course for the course.

IRL troll after. (as you will have their attention, and some cool new skilz...TR's! )

 

[Esion]

Well, maybe I use the term 'bullbait' incorrectly.

I just want to beat them at their own game. Maybe tell a joke to get them to laugh and flunk them. It'd just be funny in the same way a student correcting a teacher is.

I've made a strong attempt to stay "on the down low" during these posts. I figured OSA would be reading these. What would they do? I'm a legitimately curious fresh piece of meat. If anything, I'd hope it'd inspire them to give me more attention and make my experience even better; in hopes I take another course.

 

[Dulloldfart]

If they quoted you a course price it is probably correct. But they will also require you to buy a course pack, which will be in a shiny cover and unnecessarily expensive. Make sure you ask ahead of time how much that will cost.

Paul