So why do people leave, anyway? Why did WE leave?

riptide

Patron with Honors
Well there were many things that added up to my leaving. I left a couple times, got declared once, but went back. In the end I just drifted away.
The reason for me was this. Scientology promoted to free me from my past and improve my ability to operate in the world and as a spiritual being. I got a lot of wins through auditing and training, and learnt a lot of skills on staff.

I joined staff to help clear the planet. My original view on clearing the planet was about achieving the aims of Scientology, a world without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and human beings have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights.

What I found in the CoS, was that they were at war with so many things. I found on numerous occasions that in business a few scios were in fact criminals and nothing was done to prevent it and these people were still actively on lines. I found insanity in the way staffs were being treated. Heavy ethics and justice and no application of the tech. Criminal activity carried on by RTC and OSA in “handling” their enemies.

I did not find the CoS doing anything to really address insanity, criminality or to any effective level, human rights, within society. I could not see how scientology, scientologists or the CoS was doing anything effective to achieve their aims. What I did see was that the CoS was being very effective in creating or contributing to the problem that it was supposed to handle.

The stats given at events and how effective we were did not reconcile with my observations of what was going on in the world, hunger, disease, insanity and criminality were still rife.

On top of that the fees. Not only are they exorbitant, the fee structure is actually sufficient to prevent the broad scale official application of the tech – it prevents sales and prevents people doing the Bridge.

Heavy ethics were not resolving root causes but were in fact blowing good staff off the lines, and again preventing the application of the tech and the expansion of the group.

Taking all personalities out of the equation, the bottom line is that the CoS did not correctly apply the correct tech. They had the resources at their disposal to get out into the world and do something effective to help the peoples of the world. They have not and will not do this. They think small and do not see that by focusing their attention of providing actual needed and wanted services to people who are in need, that their reputation and the reputation of the tech would deliver far greater benefits to the CoS as well as their members.

I did not see that the CoS was taking responsibility for the state of affairs. Rather, it would constantly assign blame such as out ethics staff, the psychs, the government, always someone else or some other group. On the Responsibility Scale, the CoS was Other Determinism.

When I realised how many people the CoS had blown off lines and their total focus on regging people and getting them to join staff, I also realised that on their Havingness Scale they were at Must Be Contributed To.

I then realised that on a social level the CoS was dramatizing a tone of 1.1. Their public communications were false and hid their real intentions. All the glossy magazines, the PR hype, the flashy quarters, etc, were just a false representation of what was actually going on. They CoS was into controlling bodies, needing bodies, enforcement. Factually the CoS by their scale was way down the tone scale.

On the Effects Scale they are either 0.0 or lower. They must cause total effects but cannot receive them. Or lower, in that they think that they are creating great effects when in fact they are having little to no effect in society at large.

One may think hubbard tech is goofy, harmful, dangerous or even beneficial but in my view, if scientology is going to have a place in this world, then it needs to get its exchange in with society. Scientology to survive needs to take responsibility for the conditions that exist in the world = and I do not just mean some PR VMs. It needs to start focusing on actually achieving their aims.

To do this, CoS would need to work alongside and with the WOG world to help achieve mutual aims. It would need to stop thinking in absolutes and start thinking about gradient change, effective change and effective contribution. It would have to stop thinking so bloody literally about exchange = $. It would be supportive and not controlling and demanding of their own parishioners. It would have to stop trying to convert everyone and allow people to BE and DO and HAVE.

So when I realised the CoS, under it’s current and past leadership, was not in my view applying the correct tech correctly to their parishoners, their staff or the world around them, I realised that the COS would never achieve their aims and in fact was only contributing to the insanity and criminality of the world, I decided to part ways.

Excellent response and summation that bears repeating.
 

riptide

Patron with Honors
I left because:

of injustice, and because like many others, could not reconcile the stated aims of the subject with the actions of the organization.

because they declared an 83 year old woman (my mom)an SP.

because I was regged and ripped off for thousands of dollars of services I did not need want nor were they good for me.

because I was lied to.

because for disagreeing with a Flag MAA I was threatened with an SP declare on the spot.

because I saw many good people chewed up for their human resources and then discarded like toxic waste.

because my family members were put through similar TOTAL INSANITY and injustice.

because I was audited for 15 intensives PAST CLEAR by robots who were afraid to do the right thing or who did not care.

There are countless examples. Dead bodies have been decaying for decades around the campfire where this story has been told over and over again.

This organization will go down in history as having great potential but huge FAIL. The tech will be forever ransacked for the good bits and the crazy bits will be tossed overboard. Miscavige and Mayo and certainly Hubbard will be names remembered, Marty will be a blip and the tech will morph into something else and this era will be a part of the history.
 

nosciento

Patron
Why I Left

Wow! Such great comments!

I left because whenever a Mission from CC Int came to CCNY, or a CC Int staff came to CCNY, there was always some messed up, upsetting, costly cycle. Really off-putting and crashed my personal stats.

Then moved to LA and went to CC Int. Hated how it was so militaristic. Finally woke up to the thought that the LOA routing form a terrible joke. Who in their right mind would go through that? We paid for service and have to ask permission for a vacation?

Then my dad got cancer and I was hounded for dollars. That's right when the bullshit Basics came out. What a scam. I still don't understand why they're not charged with fraud.

Then when I realized that what I came in for NEVER got handled after $40K and $20K in interest...and NEVER would with this "TECH"...

Then when I saw Bill Maher's "Religulous" and heard the Xenu story...

Then when I finally went on the internet to see what wiki says about Scn - only to find it's the worst religion ever.....and I went on to Operation Clambake and heard about the clams and checked it out in "History of Man" - totally whacked!

Then I decided I had had ENOUGH! Best decision of my life! I am now FREE of the insanity of the cult!:happydance:
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
Initially, I left because I was bogged on a course and was treated like some sort of lowlife downstat DB because of it. (In other words I had run out of money -- I had always been very upstat and "theta" when I had money -- but of course didn't see THAT until years later). At that time I was a true believer and went into agreement with it. I concluded that the valuable Scientology resources needed to be spent making the "able" more able, and shouldn't be wasting their time with me when I was so PTS, and couldn't contribute. The greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics was to get out of the way.

So, I "faded away" and set about getting my $30,000 debt paid off, all the while postulating that the COfS would "Flourish and Prosper" so that they could handle my sorry case eventually.

It took me 2 years to have the courage to check the Internet, and it was the Internet that got me to change my mindset and leave for good. Seeing high level people get declared or blowing after having given everything to the church, and finding out the truth about LRH's death, and documentation of his lies regarding his education and his war record, and OT's dying of cancer, and the treatment of children, and the forced abortions, listening to Nibs testifying in court . . . but most of all this board. It was the real people here who I grew to respect -- obviously not SP's -- and the real stories, and the astute analysis from so many here of wtf happened that finally opened my eyes to how indoctrinated I had been.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I do recall

Never in, but brushed up against it, took some courses. I do recall thinking, when I left and never came back, that I used what I had learned to realize that whole place was PTS to a big huge SP - and if an organization or institution couldn't be SP (I asked and that was the answer), and it HAD TO BE A PERSON, then it was Hubbtard. Hub was the SP.

How ironic, that was my thought.

Well, little did I know - as everything around him was a lie, Hub was in hiding, at the time, probably not sane, at the very least not cognitive/functioning, and being led around by dm bots - DM was climbing to the top over lots of dead bodies, so to speak :whistling:, even as I was thinking that thought.

I was lucky. Never been LUCKY in my life, you know, like winning stuff, winning out, but when I look back now, knowing what I know, I realize just how freaking LUCKY I was/am, in a very ironic way.

Isn't that ironic. :D
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
I left because I could no longer lend my support to or remain a part of a Corrupt and Suppressive Group; The Church of Scientology.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Yes, there really are some excellent responses here.

It's interesting how everyone has their own last straw, so to speak. At this point, the only people who astound me are the ones who've been in for years, so you KNOW they have to have truly seen and experienced some bad shit, yet they stay and even help coerce other people into disconnecting, or getting them in trouble, and all that stuff. I mean, come ON!! That's not the group that was sold to us. Once it becomes evident that it's not as represented and that it's WAY WAY off from that, then shit, these people should be leaving. A newbie or someone who kept it light- who may not know of the huge pattern and scope of abuses- now, THAT person might have more of a reason for staying. But I know people who were staff for years, who've seen, been target of or party to fair game ops and they're still IN. I mean, really. WTF?
 

nozeno

Gold Meritorious Patron

howboutitsucked.gif


Plus I could no longer stand being part of the nouveau riche.

Fifty ($50) dollars a week is way more money than anyone needs to survive.
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, there really are some excellent responses here.

It's interesting how everyone has their own last straw, so to speak. At this point, the only people who astound me are the ones who've been in for years, so you KNOW they have to have truly seen and experienced some bad shit, yet they stay and even help coerce other people into disconnecting, or getting them in trouble, and all that stuff. I mean, come ON!! That's not the group that was sold to us. Once it becomes evident that it's not as represented and that it's WAY WAY off from that, then shit, these people should be leaving. A newbie or someone who kept it light- who may not know of the huge pattern and scope of abuses- now, THAT person might have more of a reason for staying. But I know people who were staff for years, who've seen, been target of or party to fair game ops and they're still IN. I mean, really. WTF?

I think it's just an indicator of how vulnerable and malleable the human mind is. It's like the people that worked Hitler's death camps. Something was done to mess up people's judgment, change their viewpoint to the degree that they would do things that previously they would have been horrified at.

I never got in very deep, I was only public, I never saw abuses, but yet, I had bought into the ends justify the means viewpoint. . . after all, what's one lifetime when you "work in eternity"? Sort of a "Matrix" mentality, where it isn't really real anyway, so you're not really ruining people, you are helping them. Without you they would end up as a rock or something, and you know what's going to save them in the long run. Because you are so aware, and they're so occuluded and blind, it is your responsibility to save their eternity for them (be cause on the 3rd/4th dynamic), even if it means appearing to be cruel in the short run. Don't "go into agreement" with the wog ethics, they really a trap. They'll understand someday and thank you; saviors bear the burden of being misunderstood.

It truly is a "mindf---".
 

Mest Lover

Not Sea Org Qualified
I left because within 2 months of finding Scientology I was in the Sea Organization and realized how much of a scam job, rip off and blatant waste of time it all was!

Oh crap, how did I get myself into this cult when I was so much smarter than that? LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES.

If Scientology could only put itself on the meter (HCO METER CHECK) -----> ROCKFUCKINGSLAMOLA!

2.5 years later I was able to get out after a lot of God's intervention and watching over me.

Fuck SCN
Fuck Sea organization
Fuck LRH!
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Never in, but brushed up against it, took some courses. I do recall thinking, when I left and never came back, that I used what I had learned to realize that whole place was PTS to a big huge SP - and if an organization or institution couldn't be SP (I asked and that was the answer), and it HAD TO BE A PERSON, then it was Hubbtard. Hub was the SP.

How ironic, that was my thought.

Well, little did I know - as everything around him was a lie, Hub was in hiding, at the time, probably not sane, at the very least not cognitive/functioning, and being led around by dm bots - DM was climbing to the top over lots of dead bodies, so to speak :whistling:, even as I was thinking that thought.

I was lucky. Never been LUCKY in my life, you know, like winning stuff, winning out, but when I look back now, knowing what I know, I realize just how freaking LUCKY I was/am, in a very ironic way.

Isn't that ironic. :D

I have thanked God every single day for the lucky day I walked out of 2125 "S" Street NW, Washington, DC. Lurker5, my love, lucky is exactly what we are. I believe I was much more involved than you, but in that I never even attested to Level ZERO (I correctly felt it was impossible to be able to communicate about anything with anyone, and thus never felt the need to FAKE examinations with a FAKE smiley face with wide open eyes and gushes to Layfayette Ronald Hubbard, the Turd, exclaiming what a SAVIOR of mankind the COMMADORE was.) All I got from my experience was that no one really got jack shit from auditing--not Virginia Downsborough, not Mystic, not Greg Wilhere.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
I left because within 2 months of finding Scientology I was in the Sea Organization and realized how much of a scam job, rip off and blatant waste of time it all was!

Oh crap, how did I get myself into this cult when I was so much smarter than that? LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES.

If Scientology could only put itself on the meter (HCO METER CHECK) -----> ROCKFUCKINGSLAMOLA!

2.5 years later I was able to get out after a lot of God's intervention and watching over me.
Fuck SCN
Fuck Sea organization
Fuck LRH!

Exactly how I feel.
 
you can check out anytime you like but can never leave

I was never in the way so many of you were. I had read DeRopp's The Master Game and it had effectively innoculated me against many psychological infections many on this board have suffered. and so i also need not suffer the extreme antipathy many feel. though don't get me wrong, my son is dead. had greg wihere not shafted me he might be alive. my personal sentiment never rises higher than "dose the lemonade at gold" and i am usually found somewhere between "molotov cocktail" and "anthrax" on the tone scale. it is incumbent upon the conscious person, particularly the christian, to transcend their emotion and i have a very strong reality both on the virtues of auditing and "OT" as it is called
 
you can check out anytime you like but you can never leave

I was never in the way so many of you were. I had read DeRopp's The Master Game and it had effectively innoculated me against many psychological infections many on this board have suffered. and so i also need not suffer the extreme antipathy many feel. though don't get me wrong, my son is dead. had greg wihere not shafted me he might be alive. my personal sentiment never rises higher than "dose the lemonade at gold" and i am usually found somewhere between "molotov cocktail" and "anthrax" on the tone scale. it is incumbent upon the conscious person, particularly the christian, to transcend their emotion and i have a very strong reality both on the virtues of auditing and "OT" as it is called
 

Veda

Sponsor
I was never in the way so many of you were. I had read DeRopp's The Master Game and it had effectively innoculated me against many psychological infections many on this board have suffered.

-snip-

I was so impressed with 'The Master Game' http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/14/94/fdc992c008a0431023898010.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg http://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/spiritual_members/master_game.htm that I took it with me when I, and a couple of friends, went to see Alan Watts give a talk in NYC. Watts asked us all to, each one, choose a sound to intone while meditating. Most everyone chose, "OMmmmmm." One of my friends chose "Boing!" stretched out to become "Boyoyoyinging!"

After seeing Watts, and being looked at slightly oddly by our fellow meditators, Alan Watts walked by in his Zen robe, and I held up 'The Master Game' inviting comment. He smiled benignly and walked on.

Afterwards, we went with our "Scientology ticket" (from an Incredible String Band concert a few weeks earlier), to the New York Org, where we were given an intro lecture by someone who never blinked, and we watched a film featuring actor Stephen Boyd. I bought a few books, and would soon purchase more.

A year later my friend (the "boing!" person) would spend the summer (for $35.) doing - with his wife - the (then new) "Hard TRs" course at the New York Org. After his wife and (a few day later) he had completed the course, he decided - looking around - that this was probably about as good as Scientology was going to get, and he definitely didn't want his young wife exposed to any more of Scientology, so he announced, in his 'Success Story', that "Now that I've completed the Hard TRs course, I'm going to become a leader in the Hare Krishna movement." This worked perfectly, just as he had planned, and that ended his, and his wife's, association with Scientology.

By that time, I had already done the (old) Comm Course and the H.Q.S. course, and was working at a summer job to save up enough money to do the Academy levels (audit, co-audit, etc.). I was also reading Hubbard's books, my favorite being the 'Phoenix Lectures'.

I never joined staff but thought about it, never joined the Sea Org but Carla Bazin (spelling?) tried to recruit me at an event I attended. She had me fill out a Sea Org application form up to the very last line which was where I was to place my signature, agreeing to the billion year contract.

She was persistent in trying to get me to sign that line, and when I responded, with my panty-waisted dilettante Comm-Course-graduate TRs, with "Thank you," and "OK," and refused to sign, she responded with an angry, "Don't use that bullshit on me!" That left an impression, which remained in the back of my mind, an impression which I did my best to deny and ignore for quite a while.

Thinking back, that probably "inoculated" me as much as anything else around at that time, more than 'The Master Game', more than smoking pot or taking LSD (and LSD had not yet been made a dis-qualifier for the Sea Org), more than reading books by 19th century Anarchists, Henry David Thoreau, or A.S. Neil''s 'Summerhill'.

So I stayed a "public" throughout my Scientology experience, and was happily oblivious to many of the abuses for some years. Then, realizing that there was only one me but lots and lots of other people, I began to examine more thoroughly the effect of Scientology on others, and thus began my journey out of Scientology.

I never did thank Carla, the "Don't use that bullshit on me!" Sea Org lady, for the inoculation she unintentionally gave me on that day long ago. And I never even thanked my friend for his "Boing!," which was another kind of inoculation.
 
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Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Since Oblahblah, I am sickened by this phrase, but here goes: Make no mistake, I am not a scienoweenie, in fact I doubt I ever was given what I observed on staff FCDC. Just too many things did not make sense to me. While I was present, I don't believe I was a wacked out scifag. I never recruited a single soul, and for sure I could not figure out why the claims of the "chart" or whatever that drivel was never seemed evident in those who had attained standing thereon. Oh yes, there were many pretenders, but not a single person really had the goods described.

I like this place because of the fun, the precious titties, and so many like minded souls here. It is all a joke.
 
hello winston. this o'brian

like you, i was no sienoweenie nor could i ever recruit others. yet i still claim to have gotten much from it. so tell me, why then did you stay so long?
 
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