So why do people leave, anyway? Why did WE leave?

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
I left because:

I saw highly tech trained people at Flag act like chicken shits and apply only the pieces of tech that were Miscarriage's hobby-horses of the moment.

I saw inexperienced teeny-bopper sea org people abuse their power and destroy career scientologists at their whim.

I saw formerly brave and ballsy people kow-tow to management and ruin what had been successful activities.

I saw every single success story from OTVII seem robotic and the same. Or else.

I saw money be the object of whether people finished OTVII or not.

I saw money be the object. Period.

I never wanted money to be the focus of my life and since scn. it has been nothing but.

I saw that the arrogance I unwittingly exhibited by indulging the cofs it's power was immensely screwed up. The dichotomy had to end.
I had to find myself again.

I left because disconnection policy ruins lives and lives and lives.

I had lost myself, almost lost my family, was near bankrupt as a result of spending decades putting this activity before myself and my family. It became worse and worse in it's result.

I left because I saw criminality of mind at the lower echelons of scn. where I had not seen it before. The trickle down was a dog eat dog mentality I had never seen. In the past, what happened "uplines" was on the gossip lines somewhat but vague and you were always much too busy doing your job to pay it too much mind. Often the evilness faded away...for awhile anyway...and left you in peace for decent stretches of time. These spaces of calm became shorter or non-existent. The pressure was overbearing in nature. Each day became a challenge and exceedingly unpleasant to say the least. You would see friends fall or be declared.

Abuse of power trickled down to local levels, all justified....

....and it was here to stay.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I left because:

I saw highly tech trained people at Flag act like chicken shits and apply only the pieces of tech that were Miscarriage's hobby-horses of the moment.

I saw inexperienced teeny-bopper sea org people abuse their power and destroy career scientologists at their whim.

I saw formerly brave and ballsy people kow-tow to management and ruin what had been successful activities.

I saw every single success story from OTVII seem robotic and the same. Or else.

I saw money be the object of whether people finished OTVII or not.

I saw money be the object. Period.

I never wanted money to be the focus of my life and since scn. it has been nothing but.

I saw that the arrogance I unwittingly exhibited by indulging the cofs it's power was immensely screwed up. The dichotomy had to end.
I had to find myself again.

I left because disconnection policy ruins lives and lives and lives.

I had lost myself, almost lost my family, was near bankrupt as a result of spending decades putting this activity before myself and my family. It became worse and worse in it's result.

I left because I saw criminality of mind at the lower echelons of scn. where I had not seen it before. The trickle down was a dog eat dog mentality I had never seen. In the past, what happened "uplines" was on the gossip lines somewhat but vague and you were always much too busy doing your job to pay it too much mind. Often the evilness faded away...for awhile anyway...and left you in peace for decent stretches of time. These spaces of calm became shorter or non-existent. The pressure was overbearing in nature. Each day became a challenge and exceedingly unpleasant to say the least. You would see friends fall or be declared.

Abuse of power trickled down to local levels, all justified....

....and it was here to stay.


Good post Arthur Dent ... I am so glad you left when you did.

BTW whenever I read your posts I think you sound really happy to be out and here with us SP's having fun and a real life. It always makes me smile probably because I know the feeling myself and I like to think of you now free as a bird and clearly loving it.

:fly2:
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Awww, thank you Trouble. Yes, I am certainly happy hangin' with this gang. I do love every day I am out. :fly2:

"It" all has not been without it's repercussions and rough spots from the aftermath and trying to rebuild and adjust my life but I do truly love everyday I am out. And I also simply love every time I see my caller ID and ignore my phone! There is power in this!! Just stop taking the calls people!! (for the lurkers!)
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
I left the Sea org far before i left Scientology. I saw the abuses and treatment of people as wrong. It didn't sink in for me for some time just how abusive it really was.
Then i read enough and came to many conclusions that Hubbard did not have people's good will at heart.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Re: hello winston. this o'brian

like you, i was no sienoweenie nor could i ever recruit others. yet i still claim to have gotten much from it. so tell me, why then did you stay so long?

I just now saw this post today, after reading some on this thread...uh, I didn't stay all that long, but it seemed like a lifetime! I think I showed up in the fall of 1971 and was audited by Greg Wilhere for some time, and then got sweet talked into joining staff to take John Ruane's place as "Director" of "Technical" "Services," an absolutely thankless job of running myself and maybe an occasional helper ragged. I left for absolute good in spring 1974, but at that point was not on staff, even if they thought I was supposed to be. There was a lot of pressure to stay, but every single day I would note that no one seemed to exhibit the qualities described on the "Bridge to Total Freedom," to include Mystic, Virginia Downsborough and especially jackasses like Don Cooper. Virginia was a wonderful lady from way back in LRH's past, I think from the early 50s, and I loved her as a human being. But she never seemed to be what was supposed to be an OT VII, was just a normal person.

I was threatened numerous times when I wanted to leave. My best revenge back then anyway, was taking over Joan Tourtellot's scn apartment with the expectation I would keep it for fellow scienoweenies. However, I got quite the chill about the place and Calomiris jumped at the chance to rent it to a family friend when I gave it up a few months later. Lorraine Scheffler, I remember, was there and at the time was some sort of financial person at the org. I wrote a check to the org for $700 for something and promptly stopped payment on it. She came to me to recoup the money and I just smiled. They took way more than that in slave labor. The ultimate revenge has been living a prosperous life, with NO credit given to that filthy place.
 
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Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Which parts of the tech/levels OT levels do you reject?

A better question would be what if anything I accept. How about I accept nothing. Is that permissible. All of LRH's twisted purpose was and still is to make himself/scn rich with no conscience for the destroyed lives left in his/their tyrannical wake.

Clean living wins, in the end.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Why I left:

Lies!
Extortion!
No CLEARS!
Fucked up Oat Teas!
More lies!
Death - suicides, cancer...Death of very young people who gave everything to this CULT!

It is a Cult!
They lie!
Did I say - the Cult LIES in the best interest of ???

The INTERNET!!:happydance:
Lisa McPherson
Ken Dandar
Lawrence Abramson - one of the author's of WHAT IS SCIENTOLOGY - AFTER Hubbturd's death
Criminals that broke the law - Mary Sue Hubbard et al
David Mismanagement
IAS and everything / everyone about it
Debbie Cook
Idle Morgue's / bad real estate investments - empty buildings to service the dead
Jason Beghe
Maria Pia Gardini
Magoo
Fraud Scam Base - extortion, lies, bribery, death
Jeffrey Hawkins
Lawrence Wollersheim
Gerry Armstrong
All of the people that told their story on ESMB!!
Fund raising
Registrar's
Dave Foster- asshole registrar at Fraud Scam Base
Hy Levy
L Ron Hubbard
David Miscavige
THE TECH DOES NOT WORK, even when standardly applied - because their is always an excuse as to why it does not work...the #1 excuse - we are dealing with BROKEN PIECES! WTF???

This all contributed to the motion!
 
Which parts of the tech/levels OT levels do you reject?

well, let me in brief lay claim to a sort of neutrality about helatrobus, history of man, nuclearvolcnoessevntyfivemillionyearsbeforeelvis etc.

i'm a CLIV HGDS and almost all of that material is EXCELLENT. service facimile? i'm not jam up and jelly tight on that one. i think D&L with a meter is mostly a piece of crap...

i might expand on this post later but this should serve well or a thumbnail answer
 
Re: hello winston. this o'brian

I just now saw this post today, after reading some on this thread...uh, I didn't stay all that long, but it seemed like a lifetime! I think I showed up in the fall of 1971 and was audited by Greg Wilhere for some time, and then got sweet talked into joining staff to take John Ruane's place as "Director" of "Technical" "Services," an absolutely thankless job of running myself and maybe an occasional helper ragged. I left for absolute good in spring 1974, but at that point was not on staff, even if they thought I was supposed to be. There was a lot of pressure to stay, but every single day I would note that no one seemed to exhibit the qualities described on the "Bridge to Total Freedom," to include Mystic, Virginia Downsborough and especially jackasses like Don Cooper. Virginia was a wonderful lady from way back in LRH's past, I think from the early 50s, and I loved her as a human being. But she never seemed to be what was supposed to be an OT VII, was just a normal person.

I was threatened numerous times when I wanted to leave. My best revenge back then anyway, was taking over Joan Tourtellot's scn apartment with the expectation I would keep it for fellow scienoweenies. However, I got quite the chill about the place and Calomiris jumped at the chance to rent it to a family friend when I gave it up a few months later. Lorraine Scheffler, I remember, was there and at the time was some sort of financial person at the org. I wrote a check to the org for $700 for something and promptly stopped payment on it. She came to me to recoup the money and I just smiled. They took way more than that in slave labor. The ultimate revenge has been living a prosperous life, with NO credit given to that filthy place.

thankless?

i LOVE tech services!

the fur flies in the HGC and most of what TS and DTS hears is auditor demands and complaints. The Code of Honor is an upfront thing on staff and one of it's points is like praise ain't necessary

but...

love and gratitude are a powerful and tasty aspect of the CoS version of The Unspoken Thing (see electric koolaid acid test)

so as an auditor in more peaceful state let me say...

THANK YOU WINSTON! THANK YOU CHUCK JUDGE! THANK YOU TECH SERVICES WHEREVER YOU MAY BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

good to hear from you! how ya been buddy?

and...

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU AND YOURS WINNIE!!!!!!
 

Reasonable

Silver Meritorious Patron
Why I left: My story of leaving was gradual over a 4 year period

The push for money was really ramping up. I had heard about it but it didn't happen to me very much. Then all of a sudden all the money people were calling, the IAS, Author Services, the basics etc.

I had done thorough OT5 and I was pretty happy, my life was good and I did like the auditing, and I was planning on going on.

I admit my life was better. I did not have super powers but things were going smoothly.

Then the insane regging started, I was pretty much forced to buy the congresses then when the Basics came out I was called daily and people started to come to my house and still I bought them but I really started to distance myself because I never felt so out of control before. Then The IAS regged me for $1800. The money stories that I heard were now coming true for me.

Every time they regged me for something I didn't want I died a little. They just wanted to "get in comm" and I thought in the end it was my decision if I were to buy or not, then I realized it wasn't.

Humiliation
When I was on the OT levels I noticed people doing "amends" project for small infractions and I really thought it was humiliating. I thought I wouldn't be going around getting people to sign off on me and telling people how bad I was for something stupid like being late or returning the folders a few minutes late.

People would turn themselves into ethics because when they went to the bathroom they left the secret "platens" in the locked room and did not chain them to their arm. I just thought that these amends (I thought it as punishments) were humiliating. I didn't know if I would comply if it happened to me.

The News Sounds True
A non Scientologist friend of mine told me a news story about Jenna Miscavages daughter and asked me to comment. So I read the news story about her accusations about how young children were over worked and things like that and when I read it, it really sounded true to me.

My Friend Got Declared
The straw that broke the camel's s back for me was when A good friend of mine was declared. He is a great guy and a great auditor and I personally send him about 20 people to get auditing over the years. For the most part people were really happy with the results. But he never tried to turn them into Scientologists. He gave them what they needed or wanted.



The church stole his confidential files (of my friends)
So some of the people who I sent to him were calling me. They were telling me that the Church Of Scientology was calling them (they had taken the files when my friend was declared). AS far as I am concerned these are privileged files like a priest or medicine they are private.

Now I was afraid to call my friend and ask him about the situation because I was not supposed to talk to an SP. So a year passed and I didn't do anything but I thought about what was going on. I thought about not being able to look or ask and having to follow the party line. But I still wanted my eternity.

I get the story from my declared friend

Then one day I decided to call my friend who got expelled. I remember picking up the phone thinking "If I even call him I am going to have to bring this up in auditing", then I thought I would have to pay all sorts of money for sec checks and then I would be assigned a condition and go through the humiliating liability formula and I knew I would never do that!

So I knew if I had the conversation with him I would never go back.

So I called him and I got the story from him ( he is a free zoner). He had been an auditor for over 30 years and a 20 year old Sea org member tried to accuse him of out tech. He even tried to handle it but they wanted him to do a total retrain from the beginning even though he had been doing this since the 70's and retrained again with Golden Age of Tech. When he decided not to retrain again at a huge cost to him


That is when it really hit me hard, this place is insane and it was in line with all the things I had been personally noticing (all of this happened aver a 4 year period)

I remember sitting in my garage that night ( I had just gotten off the phone with him) thinking "I am out of Scientology.

Then I got on the internet and I read and watched everything I could.

The first thing I saw was that I could get all the Scientology I wanted in the way that I wanted if I wanted it. No humiliation or crazy regging. I did some free zone auditing after that and I admit I still like a lot of the admin and processes of Scientology. I think Hubbard had some good technology but was also abusive and a criminal. I think auditing is just another form of hypnotism which can be useful if used skillfully. I know that the results are not standard and I think they could be helpful or harmful but you have a right to use it if you want. I don't believe the Xenu story. I don't think the results of Scientology are anywhere near what Hubbard claims. At this point I definitely do not consider myself a Scientologist or a freezoner but I would use the pieces of it that I like when I want to.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Why I left: My story of leaving was gradual over a 4 year period

The push for money was really ramping up. I had heard about it but it didn't happen to me very much. Then all of a sudden all the money people were calling, the IAS, Author Services, the basics etc.

I had done thorough OT5 and I was pretty happy, my life was good and I did like the auditing, and I was planning on going on.

I admit my life was better. I did not have super powers but things were going smoothly.

Then the insane regging started, I was pretty much forced to buy the congresses then when the Basics came out I was called daily and people started to come to my house and still I bought them but I really started to distance myself because I never felt so out of control before. Then The IAS regged me for $1800. The money stories that I heard were now coming true for me.

Every time they regged me for something I didn't want I died a little. They just wanted to "get in comm" and I thought in the end it was my decision if I were to buy or not, then I realized it wasn't.

Humiliation
When I was on the OT levels I noticed people doing "amends" project for small infractions and I really thought it was humiliating. I thought I wouldn't be going around getting people to sign off on me and telling people how bad I was for something stupid like being late or returning the folders a few minutes late.

People would turn themselves into ethics because when they went to the bathroom they left the secret "platens" in the locked room and did not chain them to their arm. I just thought that these amends (I thought it as punishments) were humiliating. I didn't know if I would comply if it happened to me.

The News Sounds True
A non Scientologist friend of mine told me a news story about Jenna Miscavages daughter and asked me to comment. So I read the news story about her accusations about how young children were over worked and things like that and when I read it, it really sounded true to me.

My Friend Got Declared
The straw that broke the camel's s back for me was when A good friend of mine was declared. He is a great guy and a great auditor and I personally send him about 20 people to get auditing over the years. For the most part people were really happy with the results. But he never tried to turn them into Scientologists. He gave them what they needed or wanted.



The church stole his confidential files (of my friends)
So some of the people who I sent to him were calling me. They were telling me that the Church Of Scientology was calling them (they had taken the files when my friend was declared). AS far as I am concerned these are privileged files like a priest or medicine they are private.

Now I was afraid to call my friend and ask him about the situation because I was not supposed to talk to an SP. So a year passed and I didn't do anything but I thought about what was going on. I thought about not being able to look or ask and having to follow the party line. But I still wanted my eternity.

I get the story from my declared friend

Then one day I decided to call my friend who got expelled. I remember picking up the phone thinking "If I even call him I am going to have to bring this up in auditing", then I thought I would have to pay all sorts of money for sec checks and then I would be assigned a condition and go through the humiliating liability formula and I knew I would never do that!

So I knew if I had the conversation with him I would never go back.

So I called him and I got the story from him ( he is a free zoner). He had been an auditor for over 30 years and a 20 year old Sea org member tried to accuse him of out tech. He even tried to handle it but they wanted him to do a total retrain from the beginning even though he had been doing this since the 70's and retrained again with Golden Age of Tech. When he decided not to retrain again at a huge cost to him


That is when it really hit me hard, this place is insane and it was in line with all the things I had been personally noticing (all of this happened aver a 4 year period)

I remember sitting in my garage that night ( I had just gotten off the phone with him) thinking "I am out of Scientology.

Then I got on the internet and I read and watched everything I could.

The first thing I saw was that I could get all the Scientology I wanted in the way that I wanted if I wanted it. No humiliation or crazy regging. I did some free zone auditing after that and I admit I still like a lot of the admin and processes of Scientology. I think Hubbard had some good technology but was also abusive and a criminal. I think auditing is just another form of hypnotism which can be useful if used skillfully. I know that the results are not standard and I think they could be helpful or harmful but you have a right to use it if you want. I don't believe the Xenu story. I don't think the results of Scientology are anywhere near what Hubbard claims. At this point I definitely do not consider myself a Scientologist or a freezoner but I would use the pieces of it that I like when I want to.

Very nice story Reasonable! A logical progression of events, with your reactions at each stage and well written. You had enough objectivity to sort things out as you were going along and make the proper decision to leave when the opportunity to do so became available to you. Four years of involvement is not that long; it's long enough to figure out what the game is all about and then get out, still in one piece, without your life being wrecked. Well Done, you sound like a survivor and a very rational person!
Lakey
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Re: hello winston. this o'brian

thankless?

i LOVE tech services!

the fur flies in the HGC and most of what TS and DTS hears is auditor demands and complaints. The Code of Honor is an upfront thing on staff and one of it's points is like praise ain't necessary

<snip>

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU AND YOURS WINNIE!!!!!!

I actually got along fairly well with the auditors, and I was a good little gofer for the C/S, be it Virginia or Pandora (the two I remember serving). What drove me to distraction was on the spur of the moment trying to find housing for new pcs. Back then there was Hartnett Hall, and maybe a staff member who had an extra bed. But it was hell finding places, and much stress. And the move from 1812 19th street was nuts. Being who I was, I was tasked with moving all the freakin folders. Sure only the bad is what I remember. And I don't know how I survived on $20 a week, when before I was a waiter at MINIMUM $200 a week, some weeks $350 (remember this was early 70s, and that was fantastic money for a 20 year old)
 

Mest Lover

Not Sea Org Qualified
Re: hello winston. this o'brian

I just now saw this post today, after reading some on this thread...uh, I didn't stay all that long, but it seemed like a lifetime! I think I showed up in the fall of 1971 and was audited by Greg Wilhere for some time, and then got sweet talked into joining staff to take John Ruane's place as "Director" of "Technical" "Services," an absolutely thankless job of running myself and maybe an occasional helper ragged. I left for absolute good in spring 1974, but at that point was not on staff, even if they thought I was supposed to be. There was a lot of pressure to stay, but every single day I would note that no one seemed to exhibit the qualities described on the "Bridge to Total Freedom," to include Mystic, Virginia Downsborough and especially jackasses like Don Cooper. Virginia was a wonderful lady from way back in LRH's past, I think from the early 50s, and I loved her as a human being. But she never seemed to be what was supposed to be an OT VII, was just a normal person.

I was threatened numerous times when I wanted to leave. My best revenge back then anyway, was taking over Joan Tourtellot's scn apartment with the expectation I would keep it for fellow scienoweenies. However, I got quite the chill about the place and Calomiris jumped at the chance to rent it to a family friend when I gave it up a few months later. Lorraine Scheffler, I remember, was there and at the time was some sort of financial person at the org. I wrote a check to the org for $700 for something and promptly stopped payment on it. She came to me to recoup the money and I just smiled. They took way more than that in slave labor. The ultimate revenge has been living a prosperous life, with NO credit given to that filthy place.

The 2.5 years I spent at CLO EUS seemed like torture that had no ending.
The 20+ years since then are completely enriched with my understanding how God is a part of my life and how blessed I am to be free from that form of hell.

I often think about my time there, how much they tried to control me, how I used everything they tried to control me against them. The LRH Policies against using SCN policy against SCN and realizing that LRH's FO 13 set me free in the end.

My last 20+ years in SCN would have destroyed me. The last 20+ years that realizing that SCN needs to be buried is what led me to the life I had always hoped for but would never achieve via SCN. Fuck you LRH, Fuck you OSA, Fuck any process within SCN that removes the freedom of the people that fall into its snare.
 

Mest Lover

Not Sea Org Qualified
BTW: I am enjoying a huge pile of shrimp and some beer. Also, today my family is enjoying their time at an athletic event where my daughter is a competitor and a fucking damn good one with eyes on the Olympics.

God bless my freedom from SCN, my family and what my children will view as freedom from Scientology as they grow, learn and compete.

What do you Sea Org members and OSA whom may be reading this truth be enjoying today? What stat did you increase that may keep you on post today? What of the dynamics did you help by reading how I am enjoying what God and not LRH hath proved me?

WAKE THE FUCK UP and BLOW!
 
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