Some notes on running OT III

[Emma]

Case gain exists. It's called growing up, maturing, taking personal responsibility and admitting your mistakes. It's called learning and growing and being willing to be wrong.

It's fine to look back on your life and reevaluate old and possibly bad decisions. You just don't need a cult to do it in.

My 2c.

 

[Pascal]

Case gain exists. It's called growing up, maturing, taking personal responsibility and admitting your mistakes. It's called learning and growing and being willing to be wrong.

It's fine to look back on your life and reevaluate old and possibly bad decisions. You just don't need a cult to do it in.

My 2c.

Sure, with no "case" you can learn and go free on your own. LRH says that MEST is therapeutic in itself, as any dynamic.

But with a contaminated body, reactive bank and BTs you won't go far in MEST.

You are right, we don't need a cult, we need a Church, a real one with real OTs at the helm, not dwarfs with the IQ of a peanut.

 

[Veda]

Yeah, it is apples and oranges here. I have read all that you refer to...in some cases several times. It is all very interesting when looking at his life.

What that has to do with running OT III I do not know.

Does case gain exist? Or like Alanzo, is there "no such thing"?

You keep saying that you've read it all, but I don't think you have read it all, or really thought it through. Not even close.

Otherwise, you'd realize that this has to do with the subject of Scientology.

You ask, does case gain exist?

Well, I've audited people.

Did they benefit from my auditing? Yes, I think so.

Did Hubbard switch over, majorly, to "Implanter mode" around 1965? Yes.

Did Hubbard have a hidden agenda? Yes.

Etc., etc., etc.

We disagree. That's the way it is.

 

[Div6]

You keep saying that you've read it all, but I don't think you have read it all, or really thought it through. Not even close.

Otherwise, you'd realize that this has to do with the subject of Scientology.

You ask, does case gain exist?

Well, I've audited people.

Did they benefit from my auditing? Yes, I think so.

Did Hubbard switch over, majorly, to "Implanter mode" around 1965? Yes.

Did Hubbard have a hidden agenda? Yes.

Etc., etc., etc.

We disagree. That's the way it is.

Yes we do. I maintain that all that has to do with the history and application of Scn. Flow 2 and Flow 0 is a biatch....

As a subject, axiomatically, it is very clear.

But that is OK. We can disagree.

 

[haiqu]

You should try listening to Hubbard's lectures after having carefully read the 1938 Excalibur/Skipper letter; other documents of the 1930s and 1940s; the 1950s FBI letters, and other correspondence of the 1950s; the (Hubbard's title) 'Brainwashing Manual' of 1955;

You still haven't answered how you gained access to materials not generally known within Scientology. And there is no proof that the Brainwashing Manual was written by Hubbard. I have several copies, they do not show an author anywhere.

Begging the question yet again. Yes, everything may be really obvious to you, but you're having a hell of a time convincing me of any of it. And has been stated by others, character assassination doesn't invalidate the subject itself.

haiqu

 

[haiqu]

In 2007, "Soundscriber" is a general term for sound recorder. Sixty years ago, it was a brand name.

Before that, there were "Dictaphones" with the wax cylinder.

Sound recording has been around for some time.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Keep wriggling. Dictaphone's first electronic dictation machines were introduced in 1939. Before that Hubbard would have had to record them at a (very rare) manufacturing facility and replay on mechanical devices. Possible, but fairly unlikely.

In any case, his researches included a lot of different avenues and I don't find the claim particularly astounding, nor evidence that his intentions were untoward. I'd be more inclined to be worried about the subliminal message tapes now available, in that the information is completely covert and could contain anything.

But keep dangling those red herrings, someone may take the bait.

haiqu

 

[Veda]

Keep wriggling. Dictaphone's first electronic dictation machines were introduced in 1939. Before that Hubbard would have had to record them at a (very rare) manufacturing facility and replay on mechanical devices. Possible, but fairly unlikely.

In any case, his researches included a lot of different avenues and I don't find the claim particularly astounding, nor evidence that his intentions were untoward. I'd be more inclined to be worried about the subliminal message tapes now available, in that the information is completely covert and could contain anything.

But keep dangling those red herrings, someone may take the bait.

haiqu

Huh?

Hubbard liked to use sound recorders. Deal with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictaphone

http://www.recording-history.org/HTML/dicta_tech2.php

 

[Alanzo]

Yeah, it is apples and oranges here. I have read all that you refer to...in some cases several times. It is all very interesting when looking at his life.

What that has to do with running OT III I do not know.

Does case gain exist? Or like Alanzo, is there "no such thing"?

I think it's important to duplicate what someone else has said, especially if you are quoting him. I have never said there is no such thing as case gain.

Here is what I have said: "'Case' does not exist, as defined by L Ron Hubbard."

Different, isn't it?

 

[Steven James]

Veda,

if you can make accusations and not give examples, that I cannot except what you put forth.

Yes there are a small number of people who found not OTIII, including BT's with the incident- including a person whom both me and Teril know who has been in the Church and the Freezone, albeit briefly, I am not going to name them as they work in a very public profession. This person has only had a small amount of Scientology. I only know one, possibly two people in the Freezone who 'worship' Hubbard, and this is not a requirement.

The OTIII level is not held simply on belief and much similar data exists in other religions and philosiphies, including talok of pre-historical atomic wars, groups of 12 with a 13th member (Xenu and Yatrus).

I agree that the OT levels are not the only way to blow the case. However they have very broad applicability and have given incredible gains to many and therefore, if one does not know the way out or has troubles, then this route is advisable. Hubbard may be the source of the processes, but not really the history or the data, as the time track belongs to everyone.

If you have your own alternative data that may be of benefit and may salvage people from the 'OT Bridge', something you seem to despise, then feel free to share it.

And btw if you cannot give specifics of events why have you asked it of another in a different thread?

 

[Div6]

I think it's important to duplicate what someone else has said, especially if you are quoting him. I have never said there is no such thing as case gain.

Here is what I have said: "'Case' does not exist, as defined by L Ron Hubbard."

Different, isn't it?

I stand corrected Alanzo. Thanks for the clarification. Yes, that is different.

 

[Zinjifar]

the time track belongs to everyone.

It does? What happened to 'true for you'?

Certainly anyone can be led down the primrose path of 'recovered memory', but, the only people who seem to find Hubbard's particular 'past life recall' are people who've been *trained* to find it.

Even according to Hubbard, he was the 'first' to 'discover' His 'Wall of Fire'.

Hmmm.... small wonder.

Zinj

 

[Div6]

It does? What happened to 'true for you'?

Certainly anyone can be led down the primrose path of 'recovered memory', but, the only people who seem to find Hubbard's particular 'past life recall' are people who've been *trained* to find it.

Even according to Hubbard, he was the 'first' to 'discover' His 'Wall of Fire'.

Hmmm.... small wonder.

Zinj

Uh, not exactly....this is from RJ 67:


"No one has ever been able to make any breakthrough and come off with it and know what happened. As a matter of fact, it is so occluded that, if anyone tried to penetrate it, as I'm sure many have, they died."

 

[Pascal]

It does? What happened to 'true for you'?

Certainly anyone can be led down the primrose path of 'recovered memory', but, the only people who seem to find Hubbard's particular 'past life recall' are people who've been *trained* to find it.

Even according to Hubbard, he was the 'first' to 'discover' His 'Wall of Fire'.

Hmmm.... small wonder.

Zinj

Actually he was the first to map a road through that wall of fire. He talks about many others having found it and dying in the process. Crowley being one.

 

[Zinjifar]

Uh, not exactly....this is from RJ 67:


"No one has ever been able to make any breakthrough and come off with it and know what happened. As a matter of fact, it is so occluded that, if anyone tried to penetrate it, as I'm sure many have, they died."

Heh. You're right. I wonder what 'comm line' those dead explorers used to tell Ron about it...



But, of course: "We will not speculate here on why this was so or how I came to rise above the bank. We are dealing only in facts and the above is a fact"

Zinj

 

[Pascal]

Heh. You're right. I wonder what 'comm line' those dead explorers used to tell Ron about it...



But, of course: "We will not speculate here on why this was so or how I came to rise above the bank. We are dealing only in facts and the above is a fact"

Zinj

Yeah LRH talks about how he never agreed to be a slave so he had the brains to find the way out. Kind of like the wuss of the group that didn't try pot.

Well thanks anyways!

 

[Veda]

You still haven't answered how you gained access to materials not generally known within Scientology. And there is no proof that the Brainwashing Manual was written by Hubbard. I have several copies, they do not show an author anywhere.

Begging the question yet again. Yes, everything may be really obvious to you, but you're having a hell of a time convincing me of any of it. And has been stated by others, character assassination doesn't invalidate the subject itself.

haiqu

You have a lot of learning to do, and you're going to have to do it mostly on your own.

Here are some links. Selected from this forum, they're at least a start.

Read them if you wish:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=17194&postcount=7

http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/ambry1.html

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=17344&postcount=2

These are just a sampling.

Suggest reading the 'Layers of the Scientological Onion' section in 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels'.

 

[Veda]

Veda,

if you can make accusations and not give examples, that I cannot except what you put forth.

Yes there are a small number of people who found not OTIII, including BT's with the incident- including a person whom both me and Teril know who has been in the Church and the Freezone, albeit briefly, I am not going to name them as they work in a very public profession. This person has only had a small amount of Scientology. I only know one, possibly two people in the Freezone who 'worship' Hubbard, and this is not a requirement.

The OTIII level is not held simply on belief and much similar data exists in other religions and philosiphies, including talok of pre-historical atomic wars, groups of 12 with a 13th member (Xenu and Yatrus).

I agree that the OT levels are not the only way to blow the case. However they have very broad applicability and have given incredible gains to many and therefore, if one does not know the way out or has troubles, then this route is advisable. Hubbard may be the source of the processes, but not really the history or the data, as the time track belongs to everyone.

If you have your own alternative data that may be of benefit and may salvage people from the 'OT Bridge', something you seem to despise, then feel free to share it.

And btw if you cannot give specifics of events why have you asked it of another in a different thread?

What are your examples? Xenu and Yatrus?

C'mon.

Have you read any of the links provided?

Plenty of documentation and examples.

But you have to read it - and related material - first.

It'll probably take you at least 6 months to begin to digest it.

It goes against the grain of what you believe. That's just one of those things.

Read the 'Scientological Onion' in 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels'.

And here's some advice for you: Take some time off from the LRH Universe, travel, sailboat, anything. Have a change of pace.

 

[Terril park]

VEDA
There is no attempt to "invalidate" or "dead agent," only to accurately and fully describe.

BB
I could comment " Bullshit!"

You are peculiar in my estimation. You seem to wish to help. I and others here appreciate the links you post and are somewhat familiar.

However, bottom line you tell us that our gains on this or that level are illusary and so on.

You inval and eval. A total no no for a tech guy.

Completely unworkable as information and PR.

You comment you don't trust me. Like I give a damn.

The success stories I post are completely genuine and get virtually
no editing from me.

So you invalidate the whole FZ really.

Whats your agenda?

http://www.freewebs.com/techoutsidethecofs

http://internationalfreezone.net

Below one may see a British TV program of
scientology as its use.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1786568759674213741&q=begin...

 

[haiqu]

You have a lot of learning to do, and you're going to have to do it mostly on your own.

And you're a condescending twat. My last professional Scientology service was over 12 years ago, and I've read everything on the internet related to the subject, including participating in a.r.s and a.c.t for some months. If you ever had anything useful to teach me, your window of opportunity is now closed.

Here are some links. Selected from this forum, they're at least a start.

Read them if you wish:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=17194&postcount=7

http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/ambry1.html

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=17344&postcount=2

These are just a sampling.

Referring me to other places where you have claimed the same thing, or to others with the same feeble ability to reason, does not constitute evidence.

Suggest reading the 'Layers of the Scientological Onion' section in 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels'.

I wouldn't waste the gas in my flamethrower to torch your straw man.

haiqu

 

[Pascal]

VEDA
There is no attempt to "invalidate" or "dead agent," only to accurately and fully describe.

BB
I could comment " Bullshit!"

You are peculiar in my estimation. You seem to wish to help. I and others here appreciate the links you post and are somewhat familiar.

However, bottom line you tell us that our gains on this or that level are illusary and so on.

You inval and eval. A total no no for a tech guy.

Completely unworkable as information and PR.

You comment you don't trust me. Like I give a damn.

The success stories I post are completely genuine and get virtually
no editing from me.

So you invalidate the whole FZ really.

Whats your agenda?

http://www.freewebs.com/techoutsidethecofs

http://internationalfreezone.net

Below one may see a British TV program of
scientology as its use.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1786568759674213741&q=begin...

Yeah, he sucks. Probably just a NCG type or OSA plant. Invalidating case gain is the worst thing you can do. It's not-ising life's most glorious manifestation, it's rehabilitation.