some thoughts on OSA

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Over on ARS there has been some general hysteria about "OSA Ops" and whether one poster or another is some sort of "op" or whether ESMB is an "OSA Op" or not.

When I stopped wetting meself with laughter about this I realized that there are people who seriously think OSA isa threat of some kind.

I know Gavino Idda - I knew him when he arrived in the SO at FOLO EU from Italy. He's not a bad guy but he is not about to challenge any sort of IQ records. He's just an ordinary little guy.

If anyone is seriously worried about OSA and what they will "do" I would suggest just taking a moment or two to review all their "successes" of the past decade or two - they managed to lose almost every major court case, they have ensured that the confidential material gets out everywhere, they have had more bad books and programs done about them than ever before.

These guys in OSA were the ones who didn't make it to the top in the GO!!

AS for whether ESMB is some sort of "op".

Think about it for a second - this would be stupid even by OSA standards. Set up a whole board, with tons of threads and stories about how moronic the church is - just so they could get IP addresses??? Does anyone seriously think this is a 'threat'? What the hell does it matter?

Puleeze.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Over on ARS there has been some general hysteria about "OSA Ops" and whether one poster or another is some sort of "op" or whether ESMB is an "OSA Op" or not.

When I stopped wetting meself with laughter about this I realized that there are people who seriously think OSA isa threat of some kind.

I know Gavino Idda - I knew him when he arrived in the SO at FOLO EU from Italy. He's not a bad guy but he is not about to challenge any sort of IQ records. He's just an ordinary little guy.

If anyone is seriously worried about OSA and what they will "do" I would suggest just taking a moment or two to review all their "successes" of the past decade or two - they managed to lose almost every major court case, they have ensured that the confidential material gets out everywhere, they have had more bad books and programs done about them than ever before.

These guys in OSA were the ones who didn't make it to the top in the GO!!

AS for whether ESMB is some sort of "op".

Think about it for a second - this would be stupid even by OSA standards. Set up a whole board, with tons of threads and stories about how moronic the church is - just so they could get IP addresses??? Does anyone seriously think this is a 'threat'? What the hell does it matter?

Puleeze.

Obviously ESMB is not an "op," but you should check with the former commissioner of the American Internal Revenue Service before you become too smug about Scientology's covert "dark side."

When there are hardly any more auditors in Scientology Inc., there will still be Private Investigators, mafia lawyers, and hired goons.

One basic action of Scientology Inc. is silencing people. When someone is silenced, they tend to disappear. It's easy to forget.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Obviously ESMB is not an "op," but you should check with the former commissioner of the American Internal Revenue Service before you become too smug about Scientology's covert "dark side."

When there are hardly any more auditors in Scientology Inc., there will still be Private Investigators, mafia lawyers, and hired goons.

One basic action of Scientology Inc. is silencing people. When someone is silenced, they tend to disappear. It's easy to forget.

Thats BS - with all due respect.

Scientology's "dark side" is strewn with idiots, half wits and thugs. It follows a 1950's mentality of what 'intelligence' is. That fanatical religious idiots can create damage is self evident - the middle east is proof of that.

Who has been 'silenced" and 'disappeared'?
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Over on ARS there has been some general hysteria about "OSA Ops" and whether one poster or another is some sort of "op" or whether ESMB is an "OSA Op" or not.

When I stopped wetting meself with laughter about this I realized that there are people who seriously think OSA isa threat of some kind.

I know Gavino Idda - I knew him when he arrived in the SO at FOLO EU from Italy. He's not a bad guy but he is not about to challenge any sort of IQ records. He's just an ordinary little guy.

If anyone is seriously worried about OSA and what they will "do" I would suggest just taking a moment or two to review all their "successes" of the past decade or two - they managed to lose almost every major court case, they have ensured that the confidential material gets out everywhere, they have had more bad books and programs done about them than ever before.

These guys in OSA were the ones who didn't make it to the top in the GO!!

AS for whether ESMB is some sort of "op".

Think about it for a second - this would be stupid even by OSA standards. Set up a whole board, with tons of threads and stories about how moronic the church is - just so they could get IP addresses??? Does anyone seriously think this is a 'threat'? What the hell does it matter?

Puleeze.


Mick, Mick, Mick.

You don't know the history of OSA.

I do.

:laugh:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
It's all in your head! - Yer just mocking it up!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, to be fair, OSA and its variants and pseudopods *does* exist and, while it could never possibly achieve its *aims*, it and the 'Church' that runs it can attack individual 'targets' to a degree and level of viciousness only limited by its fear of discovery and 'PR Flaps'. Money and willing stooges and 'volunteers' are not in short supply.

However, those limitations are enough to mean that most of the 'fear' is fear of fear itself. It seems to me that most of the 'exes' manage to avoid the worst of the attacks, both because there are too many of them, but, also because there is some fear within the 'Church' of creating 'motivators' for even more open resistance. After all, someone who's extricated himself from the Cult is something of a loose cannon and a very real 'potential trouble source' :)

So, for the most part, the weapon used by the 'Church' against its own escapees is 'Disconnection', and, once that wad's shot; it's shot.

OSA isn't the boogeyman it wants to be, but, it is capable of making things rough for individuals when it thinks it can get away with it.

However, the current 'OSA Flap' on ARS has little to do with OSA itself (probably). Instead, in an amazing stroke of irony, it's being deliberately fomented by a particular 'special interest group' better known for poo-poohing 'paranoia' and 'OSA Charges' by anyone else. And, it's being run as a *punishment* for Emma, who had the chutzpah to step out of their own little 'party line' and, especially, make up with one of their own core 'enemies'.

Zinj
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I would hope that you are also considering OSA's ability to break up families if their target has family members in the Church, and to ruin business relationships with other Scientologists?

Right?

That is actually what OSA was set up mainly to do, and where their power still, to this day, lies.

When you have family they can take away from you, or businesses you have built that they can ruin, then OSA does exist.

And some people come here needing to remain confidential for those very reasons.

And that need IS REAL.

So like, Mick, why are you discounting that for those people?

You run a board, why isn't this a concern for you?
 

Div6

Crusader
I would hope that you are also considering OSA's ability to break up families if their target has family members in the Church, and to ruin business relationships with other Scientologists?

Right?

That is actually what OSA was set up mainly to do, and where their power still, to this day, lies.

When you have family they can take away from you, or businesses you have built that they can ruin, then OSA does exist.

And some people come here needing to remain confidential for those very reasons.

And that need IS REAL.

So like, Mick, why are you discounting that for those people?

You run a board, why isn't this a concern for you?


um...I know, I know....

If... he... weighs... the same as a duck,... he's made of wood.


And therefore.......



AN OSA OP!


:)
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
um...I know, I know....if he floats on water....


Then he is MADE OF WOOD...

And therefore.......



AN OSA OP!


:)

I never said that.

I'm, talking about the privacy policies of Scn boards. And I am saying that there is a certain population on those boards who are most definitely vulnerable to OSA, and they need to be protected.

And this idea that OSA is just a bunch of boobs, while true, discounts the very real damage they can do to those who have family still in, and whose economic and financial lives can be damaged through Scn connections.

And so, for these people, I do not understand the flippant attitude with regard to policies that protect the privacy of members of Scn boards - even if an IP address only gives the city you are in. For people who live outside big cities, and who are known to come from small towns, knowing what city you are in basically tells OSA exactly who you are.

And so I'm asking Mick to help me understand that attitude a little better.

I'm not saying, in any way, that Mick is an OP.

(Although I hear his breath frequently does smell like rice and beans)
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I would hope that you are also considering OSA's ability to break up families if their target has family members in the Church, and to ruin business relationships with other Scientologists?

Right?


That is actually what OSA was set up mainly to do, and where their power still, to this day, lies.

No it was not Alanzo, that is simply ridiculous. OSA was set up to be a very inefficient "intelligence" operation.

One of the weapons it has in its arsenal to try and shut down opposition is the family break up. Unfortunately for OSA and the CofS that has proven to be only marginally useful in terms of bringing about the desired results.

When you have family they can take away from you, or businesses you have built that they can ruin, then OSA does exist.

I never said it didn't exist Alanzo, not sure where you are reading that into this.

And some people come here needing to remain confidential for those very reasons.

And that need IS REAL.

No, it is not "real" it is "ridiculous". If you post in public areas of the internet and expect to remain "confidential" then you are dangerously naive or smoking rastafarian products.

If you do not post then you have nothing at all to worry about - OSA or otherwise. If you do publicly post then, the more you post the less likely you are to remain anonymous. Not because of OSA "ops" but because of the amount of information you give.

So like, Mick, why are you discounting that for those people?

You run a board, why isn't this a concern for you?

Because it isn't a concern Alanzo. Period. That some people like to run around holding their skirts up and shrieking about OSA doesn't make it a threat.

Let me ask you this - is there one person, at all, in OSA that you are afraid of? Any of them?
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I never said that.

I'm, talking about the privacy policies of Scn boards. And I am saying that there is a certain population on those boards who are most definitely vulnerable to OSA, and they need to be protected.

No they do not - just because you assert this does not make it true.


And this idea that OSA is just a bunch of boobs, while true, discounts the very real damage they can do to those who have family still in, and whose economic and financial lives can be damaged through Scn connections.

If that is the case then people who are that fragile should not post in public - anywhere.

It's fairly simple Alanzo - it is not the job of message board people or whatever to "protect" this mythical population you seem so concerned about. If a person wishes not to be identified then he or she should be quiet, stay off the internet and maintain his or her friendly relations. No problem.

But it has nothing to do with OSA and with "ops".

And so, for these people, I do not understand the flippant attitude with regard to policies that protect the privacy of members of Scn boards - even if an IP address only gives the city you are in. For people who live outside big cities, and who are known to come from small towns, knowing what city you are in basically tells OSA exactly who you are.

er no. If you are on the internet then your IP is public knowledge unless you go through a anonymizer service. As for your "well if you are in a small town then your IP address tells OSA exactly who you are" is a ludicrous assertion which, if you bother to think about for a second will become obvious to you.

How many people would this glorious Op obtain? Three? Including me who posts under his own name? Wow. This is something to be afraid of?

And so I'm asking Mick to help me understand that attitude a little better.

I'm not saying, in any way, that Mick is an OP.

I don't care one way or the other - I don't care if people are OSA or not, I do not care if someone is sitting up in OSA Int and arguing with me - it doesn't matter.

What you need to do Alanzo is to persuade me that OSA has the capability and wherewithal to run Ops like this - it does not and all the vaporing in the world does not make that a reality.

(Although I hear his breath frequently does smell like rice and beans)

I dont remember kissing you. still, I was drunk, it was dark...
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
If that is the case then people who are that fragile should not post in public - anywhere.

It's fairly simple Alanzo - it is not the job of message board people or whatever to "protect" this mythical population you seem so concerned about. If a person wishes not to be identified then he or she should be quiet, stay off the internet and maintain his or her friendly relations. No problem.

But it has nothing to do with OSA and with "ops"...


Alanzo, I've been on ARS, XSO, OCMB and ESMB. I started posting to ARS years ago.

First of all, any and all posts to Usenet show your IP address. So, no mystery there.

Second of all, when I have seen people "outed" or "exposed" in all these years, it has been for two reasons.

1) A "friend" has outed them. This could possibly be an OSA Op that befriended them. Then again, it could just be someone who one day decided to do it who has nothing to do with Scientology. (Just ask Emma.)

2) More often, however, the person outs themselves by posting personal information.

Some of these people kill me. They are paranoid about others figuring out who they are.

Then they post something about when they were in Senior HCO FCB in 1991 and Joe Blow was their senior and they were sent on an ethics mission to AOSH ANZO ...etc. etc. etc.

Then they are horrified that someone figures out who they are and they think OSA getting their their "IP address" is why.

:eyeroll:
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
However, the current 'OSA Flap' on ARS has little to do with OSA itself (probably). Instead, in an amazing stroke of irony, it's being deliberately fomented by a particular 'special interest group' better known for poo-poohing 'paranoia' and 'OSA Charges' by anyone else. And, it's being run as a *punishment* for Emma, who had the chutzpah to step out of their own little 'party line' and, especially, make up with one of their own core 'enemies'.

Bingo. :thumbsup:
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Alanzo, I've been on ARS, XSO, OCMB and ESMB. I started posting to ARS years ago.

First of all, any and all posts to Usenet show your IP address. So, no mystery there.

Second of all, when I have seen people "outed" or "exposed" in all these years, it has been for two reasons.

1) A "friend" has outed them. This could possibly be an OSA Op that befriended them. Then again, it could just be someone who one day decided to do it who has nothing to do with Scientology. (Just ask Emma.)

2) More often, however, the person outs themselves by posting personal information.

Some of these people kill me. They are paranoid about others figuring out who they are.

Then they post something about when they were in Senior HCO FCB in 1991 and Joe Blow was their senior and they were sent on an ethics mission to AOSH ANZO ...etc. etc. etc.

Then they are horrified that someone figures out who they are and they think OSA getting their their "IP address" is why.

:eyeroll:

Yes LuLu this is correct

and Alonzo:
Ip addresses are WAY over rated..
on a dial up system, cable modems, or dsl and even my Fiber Optic connection.. the IP addresses are dynamic... each time you refresh your connection you get a new one and/or often it changes at midnight.

The ISP's do this for 2 reasons, privacy of the user, AND greed, so that we cannot run a web server off a home account. Business accounts for $40 a more a month get static IPs. All my IP will tell you, is that this guy lives in virginia on a FIOS .account..

Further, with so many people with a clue, using Proxies, FoxyProxy, Tor, Vidalia etc.. the IP addresses most of the time wont even give you that! All you find out is the IP of the proxy server! My FIOS IP also runs as a proxy server...for the tor network, so, per your fears YOU could be ME.. based on IP.. if you used Tor!



you see my IP addresses!!!
IT IS A RUSE!!
create fear = silence
Geddit?

Arnie is a LOON,
create fear = silence
same playbook. same intent..
Geddit?

Does OSA do surviellance, yes, they do hire PIs. However, 95% of the time, their information is gleaned by the persons own statements and / or an informant.. someone who wants to help you...rarely do wiretaps and all that james bond rubbish actually yield anything of value. I know, I know those electronic tricks..They want you to think its a wiretap or something hi tech y rather than someone inside your own organization.

They admitted in open court to have over 150 camera's trained upon the public in Clearwater.. you might think they were OT if some OSA OT walked up to you and said, I knew you'd be here.. I could feeel it..

Scientology is an ugly charade..

Don't be fooled by the performance..

There are no OTs in Scientology, just a dwarf.

regards
arnie lerma
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
http://www.Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK
for our friends and family
to get them out of scientology
before they end up here:
http://www.whyaretheydead.ne
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I really do not understand your view here, Mick.

But let me try:

1. You say that if you have something to lose, like family disconnecting from you, or business relationships to lose, then you should not be posting on Internet message boards, period.

2. You concede that there is a danger of OSA finding out who you are, piecing together your IP address, the email address you gave the admin when you signed up, and from the content of your posts, and that danger includes you getting declared and disconnected from, family-wise and business-wise.

3. And you say that it is not the responsibility of the person who runs the board to try to ... what...do ANYTHING to limit the vulnerability of that vulnerable poster?

4. And in addition to that, you say that OSA is completely incompetent and that you are not afraid of them.

Are those your points?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
So, like, when Cerridwen was anonymous and going to events and posting her write ups of them, don't you think that was valuable?

Why would a board moderator not care to protect something like that?
 
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