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Something positive about LRH

Flag-2005

Patron with Honors
I only know Ron from his lectures and writings.

My opinion within those are still very high.

Just a few things to start off.

He said he was only a man, fame was a rock and that he does not want to be idolized. Yet we have multiple standing ovations and busts all over the place.

Why did we not follow the scriptures?

He said we do not involve ourselves in the 2D of others as it has never worked and actually only worsens a situation.

So again Orgs go against his clearer writings to show their favorite 'sex and pain' reference?

He also talks about SPs and that they have 12 traits and to declare someone an SP he doesn't make case gain, but also has a majority of these traits.

He also says to be safe you need to look at the reverse of the traits to see if the person has these white hat traits.

He wanted to avoid 'witch hunts'

I have never seen a declare order that listed the traits and tried to prove the positive and negative traits against the accused.

Why is it that inside we simply do not apply what is written?

All the the Declares I have read all read as if they were cut and paste from the last one.

Here is what Dennis Stevens says about Ron

"Yes as I say we were very, very fortunate. Most of the planet don’t know how fortunate we were to have Ron during that period 1911 to 1983. And we certainly, the vast majority of mankind, didn’t appreciate his genius. Sure he was a flawed genius. Most geniuses are you know. The last perfect genius, well, I think they nailed him up on a cross. So I think Ron could be excused for being a flawed genius. During the 1950s when I believe Ron was at his best as a research Scientologist, some of his material was breathtaking in its simplicity and breathtaking in its application."

What do you think?
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
Ron deliberately laced his subject with contradictions. You will find them throughout the bulletins, PLs and orders.

He then took the confused cult-member and imposed an LRH order as the stable datum to "handle" the prior confusion that he himself had implanted! :duh:

Examples of contradictions concerning your confusions:
Only a man who was mankind's greatest friend who somehow rose above the bank, we won't go into speculation as to how.

Not involved in the 2nd dynamic, the second dynamic is cancelled, sex is an implant.

SP characteristics, can't make case gain, high crimes and suppressive acts, highly qualified tech people and case completions declared.

These confusions are deliberately created so that any latest LRH order or post hatting could be taken as the stable datum. This was per Ron's admissions that men are his slaves. His intention was to make a slave cult, which he achieved.

Now DM is continuing the slave-con and he uses "source" data and his own orders to impose slavish obedience. :melodramatic:
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
What Is Greatness vs Fair Game.

Creed of the Church of Scientology vs Scientology Ethics Tech (such as: High Crime to publicly depart Scientology).

Public face of Scientology vs Private face of Scientology.



What do I think? I think L Ron Hubbard lied to us. His genius is irrelevant, his deviousness is more the concern. I can not see how one can obtain any form of freedom from a man so full of lies, hidden agendas, criminality, and dishonesty.

Neo
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Yes for every policy on a given issue, there was a contradictory policy. That way if you showed that something was "off policy", someone else could dig up a policy that validated the action.

As for busts and clapping, these supposedly came from "other than source", but I believe that the man was so vain that he was behind their implementation. He wanted to leave his mark on history and the name Hubbard does follow alaphabetically from Hitler.
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
That is the very difference between Hubbard's publicly acceptable front and his totalitarian backlines actions.

If you were to only read and listen to Hubbard's public materials, you would get the idea that the man was an absolute genious, a saint, who wanted nothing but good for all and stood as a larger-than-life figure above us mere humans to lead us to ultimate Truth.

Well, when you finally get deep enough into it and start seeing the things Hubbard was bound and determined to only tell his most fanatical supporters, you get 180 degrees different view of the subject.

You see the public face in things like 'The Aims of Scientology,' and the hidden story in things like 'Fair Game.'

If you've only seen the public face, read only the public writings, listened to only the public lectures, you've only seen half of Scientology. And that half is certainly shiny (although even that gets weirder and weirder as you get deeper into it.)

Just don't ask 'who are those men in black standing at the exits?' You're not supposed to see them.
 

WrongPlaceRightTime

Patron Meritorious
Ron may have said he was only a man, but he also went out of his way to make up stories about the adventurous life he led. So my take on it is the " im only a man" is feigned humble pie. He wants you to think he is humble but then he turns around and fabricates many many lies about the life he has led. And it is those many lies that make you able to believe that Hubbard actually had something worth paying for.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
We shall not speculate as to how Ron rose above the Bank and became the humblest Source alive.

Zinj
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
(By actual record, the percentages are about 100,000 to twenty that we will speculate how he came to rise above the bank.)

My speculation is that it was the Bank of Switzerland and that he drove his motorcycle up the wrong hill.
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
I only know Ron from his lectures and writings.

My opinion within those are still very high.

Just a few things to start off.

He said he was only a man, fame was a rock and that he does not want to be idolized. Yet we have multiple standing ovations and busts all over the place.

Why did we not follow the scriptures?

...

Why is it that inside we simply do not apply what is written?

...

What do you think?

Flag-2005,

He might have said that he was just a man, but this was always with a wink. :wink: He made sure to tell us of his incredible exploits and OTness, making it clear that he was in fact some sort of super-being and was just being modest. With all the stories that he told, it seemed that his life was straight out of some ‘Boys Own Adventure’, and he told us that he “Always learned to tell the lesser tale.”! Hah!

And don't forget about his 'other' writings - the ones not intended for public consumption. For example, check out the 'Admissions' : http://www.ronthenut.org/admissio.pdf

He might have said that he didn’t want to be idolised, but why did he demand that every Scientology building have numerous photos of him and even the odd bust or two? That isn’t an accident – that is according to his policies. And why is so much named after him? Hubbard Communications Office, Hubbard Dianetics Auditor, Hubbard Qualified Scientologist, HCOB, HCOPL etc.

As for staff not following the ‘scriptures’ or policy, well I used to think that. Trouble is, there is so much of it and written at different times and all of it in force (unless specifically cancelled by him), that there are inevitably contradictions. Whenever someone says “Let’s do this” and shows a reference, someone else can pull out another reference that says do something different! The staff are confused and so can only blindly follow orders from above. I think this is intentional.

Axiom142
 

Andrew

Patron with Honors
Flag-2005,

He might have said that he was just a man, but this was always with a wink. :wink: He made sure to tell us of his incredible exploits and OTness, making it clear that he was in fact some sort of super-being and was just being modest. With all the stories that he told, it seemed that his life was straight out of some ‘Boys Own Adventure’, and he told us that he “Always learned to tell the lesser tale.”! Hah!

And don't forget about his 'other' writings - the ones not intended for public consumption. For example, check out the 'Admissions' : http://www.ronthenut.org/admissio.pdf

He might have said that he didn’t want to be idolised, but why did he demand that every Scientology building have numerous photos of him and even the odd bust or two? That isn’t an accident – that is according to his policies. And why is so much named after him? Hubbard Communications Office, Hubbard Dianetics Auditor, Hubbard Qualified Scientologist, HCOB, HCOPL etc.

As for staff not following the ‘scriptures’ or policy, well I used to think that. Trouble is, there is so much of it and written at different times and all of it in force (unless specifically cancelled by him), that there are inevitably contradictions. Whenever someone says “Let’s do this” and shows a reference, someone else can pull out another reference that says do something different! The staff are confused and so can only blindly follow orders from above. I think this is intentional.

Axiom142

I humbly submit the Green Admin "Dictionary" as evidence.

"let's make it up as we go along and to hell with what ever I said before, this is what I'm saying now!" seems to be theme of Scn.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
I humbly submit the Green Admin "Dictionary" as evidence.

"let's make it up as we go along and to hell with what ever I said before, this is what I'm saying now!" seems to be theme of Scn.


That hits a nerve for me because that is exactly what's been going on for so long in Scientology. The early years weren't too bad then Ron went apeshit with distrusting everyone. :no:
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
I only know Ron from his lectures and writings.

My opinion within those are still very high.

Just a few things to start off.

He said he was only a man, fame was a rock and that he does not want to be idolized. Yet we have multiple standing ovations and busts all over the place.

Why did we not follow the scriptures?

He said we do not involve ourselves in the 2D of others as it has never worked and actually only worsens a situation.

So again Orgs go against his clearer writings to show their favorite 'sex and pain' reference?

He also talks about SPs and that they have 12 traits and to declare someone an SP he doesn't make case gain, but also has a majority of these traits.

He also says to be safe you need to look at the reverse of the traits to see if the person has these white hat traits.

He wanted to avoid 'witch hunts'

I have never seen a declare order that listed the traits and tried to prove the positive and negative traits against the accused.

Why is it that inside we simply do not apply what is written?

All the the Declares I have read all read as if they were cut and paste from the last one.

Here is what Dennis Stevens says about Ron

"Yes as I say we were very, very fortunate. Most of the planet don’t know how fortunate we were to have Ron during that period 1911 to 1983. And we certainly, the vast majority of mankind, didn’t appreciate his genius. Sure he was a flawed genius. Most geniuses are you know. The last perfect genius, well, I think they nailed him up on a cross. So I think Ron could be excused for being a flawed genius. During the 1950s when I believe Ron was at his best as a research Scientologist, some of his material was breathtaking in its simplicity and breathtaking in its application."

What do you think?

I've got a very high opinion of L. Ron Hubbard -- that of a blubbery conman who knew that there are a lot of stupid people out there with money.
 

Flag-2005

Patron with Honors
So anybody who spends money on Scn training and services is stupid?

Fine...

I think you'll agree I am stupid if I went and paid my freeloader.

But Ill be happy to pay for my Ls when I get to that. Also hope to one day get a chance to experience some time at Alans center etc.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Uhm.. My initial reaction to the OP was to gaze abjectedly at a book about java programming that is on my bookshelf in front of me.. It's was the kind of cold, steely gaze that we see Clint Eastwood do in the Good, the Bad and the Ugly... I didn't even realize I was gazing at that Java book...

I realized that this was ineffective. So I jumped to my feet and screamed generalities out the window!

That helped!

:wiggle:
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
the absolute highest possible good thing I can say about the fat fraud is

he is fucking dead.

Good fucking riddance.
 
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