Something positive about LRH

[Tanstaafl]

-snip-
There, 3 references to ‘nads in one sentence!

Or was it a single reference to three 'nads?

Is there something you'd like to share with us perhaps, Axman?

 

[Little Bear Victor]

There is nothing particularly wrong with The Way to Happiness, if you take it in isolation and discount its use as a recruitment tool and the rest of the baggage that the name Hubbard conveys to it.

 

[Tanstaafl]

There is nothing particularly wrong with The Way to Happiness, if you take it in isolation and discount its use as a recruitment tool and the rest of the baggage that the name Hubbard conveys to it.

I agree. Especially if used as a starting point in discussions on morality, which is how I think kids should be taught - just being asked questions and allowed to kick ideas around.

However, Hubbard said in 1960 that we should bring it to his attention if, "in a moment of gawd elpus" he should ever write a moral code. Has that remark been struck from the scriptures? I think not.

Scn: a mass of contradictions.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Again, I feel the necessity to caution that such thought and "vocalization" is the sort of thing that rebounds on the originator. As a "higher" being , I have seen the speed with which a "motivator" can strike after an "overt".

One of the immutable laws of life, is that which you create will come to you.

with all due respect - that is total rubbish.

right up on a par with "reading OT 3 will give you pneumonia"

 

[Axiom142]

Or was it a single reference to three 'nads?

Is there something you'd like to share with us perhaps, Axman?

Well 3 is still better than none!

And 3 is a magic number.

Axiom142

 

[Axiom142]

I agree. Especially if used as a starting point in discussions on morality, which is how I think kids should be taught - just being asked questions and allowed to kick ideas around.

However, Hubbard said in 1960 that we should bring it to his attention if, "in a moment of gawd elpus" he should ever write a moral code. Has that remark been struck from the scriptures? I think not.

Scn: a mass of contradictions.

Quite Tansy.

I had a good chuckle when I heard him say that on 'The State of Man' lectures. Something along the lines of no one needed a moral code as everyone new what they were anyway?

Funny how no one inside the Cos seems to notice these contradictions. Or perhaps that is just part of being a Scientologist - ignore all the inconsistencies? Quietly lock them away in the furthest reaches of the mind.

Axiom142

 

[sandygirl]

Not to sound like a broken record but I still don't seem to have gotten past the "Ron is a big, fat, liar" phase!

As a child we thought of him as a godlike figure. Whether he said or not he wanted to be viewed in this way,watching mom and dad clapping,so enthusiastically,at the big-lipped bronze bust is powerful stuff for a kid.

Being sent to ethics for "questioning SOURCE" was my crime and I agreed fully. Who was I to violate the "correct technology"?

Then, when I couldn't take anymore and it really came down to my own sanity or fully giving over everything I cared about to the "most ethical group on the planet", I found the internet....................

And found out my idol was a BIG FAT EGOTISTICAL CRUEL PLAGORISTIC LIAR!!!!!

(and that creepy sexual stuff....OMG....)

Naw, I'm not at the point that I can forgive the bad and find the good yet.

 

[Smitty]

I think L. Ron Hubbard is the epitome of a cult leader. His life and the organization he started should be a case study on the subject of cults.

I think that his "standard ethics and justice" is nothing but a destructive attempt to control adherents.

I think that his "standard admin" is mostly how NOT to run an organization.

I think that his "standard tech" is something that helps some, but also imparts mental baggage to those receiving it, particularly those who are trained in it.
Some folks in the Independent Field have salvaged some useful pieces of it.

That Hubbard destroyed himself and almost destroyed his organization is sufficient evidence to damn the subject.

Smitty

 

[Tanstaafl]

Well 3 is still better than none!

And 3 is a magic number.

Axiom142

I look forward enormously to the new comic strip - Axman and His Three Magical Testicles.

Any initial ideas for plot lines and characterisation?

 

[Tanstaafl]

-snip-
Funny how no one inside the Cos seems to notice these contradictions. Or perhaps that is just part of being a Scientologist - ignore all the inconsistencies? Quietly lock them away in the furthest reaches of the mind.

I noticed many inconsistencies, incongruities and outright contradictions.
It still took me 17 years to get out!

I think there is something very important to be understood about that particular phenomenon.

I was talking with The Great Alanzo the other day and he put me on to "cognitive dissonance". (It was a bugger to get an appointment with him - his people had to do lunch with my people, endless negotiations and a contract to sign - just so I could Skype the bugger for 5 mins I'd tell you what he said but he has exclusive commercial rights to our conversation.)

I'm waiting for a book to arrive. When I've read it I'll share any thoughts that may help understand why we were so slow to wake up.

 

[Axiom142]

I noticed many inconsistencies, incongruities and outright contradictions.
It still took me 17 years to get out!

I think there is something very important to be understood about that particular phenomenon.

I was talking with The Great Alanzo the other day and he put me on to "cognitive dissonance". (It was a bugger to get an appointment with him - his people had to do lunch with my people, endless negotiations and a contract to sign - just so I could Skype the bugger for 5 mins I'd tell you what he said but he has exclusive commercial rights to our conversation.)

I'm waiting for a book to arrive. When I've read it I'll share any thoughts that may help understand why we were so slow to wake up.

Perhaps I could have expressed myself better.

I think that many Scientologists notice the inconsistencies, but learn to ignore them. It becomes a self-preservation tactic. After all, who wants endless sec checks or visits to the Ethics Officer and writing up O/Ws? Those that don’t do this become ex-Scientologists. So, the only ones left are those that have learnt not to question or evaluate.

This then becomes the prevailing mindset which dictates patterns of behaviour. Scientologists, particularly staff, learn not to think for themselves. That’s probably why most of the Orgs are in such a mess.

Nice to know that The Great Alanzo is still extant. Is he going to grace us with his presence again?

Axiom142

 

[Tanstaafl]

Perhaps I could have expressed myself better.

What an impressively subtle way to say I'm thick as a whale omelette!
Perhaps I can learn something from you after all.

I think that many Scientologists notice the inconsistencies, but learn to ignore them. It becomes a self-preservation tactic. After all, who wants endless sec checks or visits to the Ethics Officer and writing up O/Ws? Those that don’t do this become ex-Scientologists. So, the only ones left are those that have learnt not to question or evaluate.

I see. I think you're describing something related to what I spoke of but not identical. Avoiding hassle is one thing, realising Scn ain't working is another.

This then becomes the prevailing mindset which dictates patterns of behaviour. Scientologists, particularly staff, learn not to think for themselves. That’s probably why most of the Orgs are in such a mess.

Perhaps. But then LRH did all our thinking for us.
There aren't many posts one can create on. PRO is one that springs to mind.

Nice to know that The Great Alanzo is still extant. Is he going to grace us with his presence again?

Well, I'm sworn to secrecy. (I'm not really - but it sounds good)
If he does come back perhaps it might be in a slightly different guise?

 

[Axiom142]

What an impressively subtle way to say I'm thick as a whale omelette!
Perhaps I can learn something from you after all.

Whale omelette? Next, you'll be banging on about consignments of prime German sausage!

Actually, there is a lot you could learn from me. Like, er, er, I’ll let you know when I think of something.

I see. I think you're describing something related to what I spoke of but not identical. Avoiding hassle is one thing, realising Scn ain't working is another.

That's the problem isn't it? Scientologists don't want to think that Scientology doesn't work. Too awful to contemplate. So, it's just easier to push all those doubts away.

Perhaps. But then LRH did all our thinking for us.
There aren't many posts one can create on. PRO is one that springs to mind.

A Scieno PRO job would be a hiding to nothing right now. They would really have to be an OT to do that.

And they don't exist. Do they? (sorry - wrong thread)

Well, I'm sworn to secrecy. (I'm not really - but it sounds good)
If he does come back perhaps it might be in a slightly different guise?

Intriguing. Can a leopard change it’s spots, or do you mean he’s going to have the op?

Axiom142

 

[Tanstaafl]

Whale omelette? Next, you'll be banging on about consignments of prime German sausage!

Now you've left Scn behind you may wish to look into Freudian analysis.

That's the problem isn't it? Scientologists don't want to think that Scientology doesn't work. Too awful to contemplate. So, it's just easier to push all those doubts away.

Too true.

A Scieno PRO job would be a hiding to nothing right now. They would really have to be an OT to do that.

And they don't exist. Do they? (sorry - wrong thread)

You just can't get the elephants these days!

Intriguing. Can a leopard change it’s spots, or do you mean he’s going to have the op?

Well, Al has appeared with another persona hereabouts.....

 

[Axiom142]

...

Well, Al has appeared with another persona hereabouts.....

Awesome!

Now, I can insult him and he will read it, but not be able to respond for fear of giving himself away.

Let's start a 'Make Alanzo Post' thread.

(Al, We luv ya really)

Axiom142

 

[sandygirl]

Quote from Axiom142:
I think that many Scientologists notice the inconsistencies, but learn to ignore them. It becomes a self-preservation tactic. After all, who wants endless sec checks or visits to the Ethics Officer and writing up O/Ws? Those that don’t do this become ex-Scientologists. So, the only ones left are those that have learnt not to question or evaluate

I'll tell you this, I learned not to question any inconsistencies that I encountered in my studies.

WHY?

Because, if I heard "Demo how it COULD be that way and DEMO how it couldn't be that way until it clears" one more time...................

How could I be so frigging stupid?

 

[Axiom142]

I'll tell you this, I learned not to question any inconsistencies that I encountered in my studies.

WHY?

Because, if I heard "Demo how it COULD be that way and DEMO how it couldn't be that way until it clears" one more time...................

How could I be so frigging stupid?

I understand where you area coming from Sandygirl.

But, I personally never minded doing demos like that. I really wanted to understand Scientology. What really p***ed me off was when I asked a genuine question and was fobbed off with "Find your M/U".

And what really, really P***ed me off was when I persisted in asking questions and was told to "Stop arguing, or I'll send you to Ethics!"

When that happened, I used to question the sanity of the individuals involved. Obviously I didn't question enough or it wouldn't have taken me 20 odd years to realise the truth.

Axiom142

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Well I don't know if this qualifies as being "positive" but I do not think its negative. I think Hubbard's early (pre 1949) years proves that he was an underachieving person who seemed to prefer getting by either by churning out pulp or sponging off others. My own personal view is that he was not really evil, just a general low life.

I do think that when he invented Dianetics that he really thought he had achieved a breakthrough. If he had actually studied at George Washington U instead of skiving off he might well have done some real research. Dianetics is total crap because Hubbard had no idea how to do research and to codify and report results. But there are some things in there that maybe could have prove useful to real therapists.

From there on out I think Hubbard was trying to "prove" that his magnificent octopus (pace Baldrick of Blackadder fame) was real and he entered in on a long run of ever more bizarre ad hoc hypotheses to keep explaining why the damned subject never gets the promised results.

I don't think he had some master plan for creating a cult, I just think he kept making it all up as he went along.

I don't think he was supremely evil or even moderately evil. I think he was a bit of a chancer who got carried away with himself.

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I look forward enormously to the new comic strip - Axman and His Three Magical Testicles.

Any initial ideas for plot lines and characterisation?

Given how "unreal" the true stories from inside are, I'm sure they could all be sewn up into an incredible soapie series.