Sounds like Hubbard was bisexual

What's It All About

Patron with Honors
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=5475&p=54080

Posted by "Pippi":

"The author Gore Vidal has taken a pot shot or two at Ron Hubbard and Scientology over the years, and now in a novel historical revelation, I surmise why! Gore had an, uhhhmm, run in with Ron.

Both Gore and Ron were sailors stationed in the Pacific Northwest during world war 2. Gore writes of Ron: 'He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity but perfectly amiable to talk to'. Gore relates that he picked up our sailor in a Seattle bar (Gore calls him a ‘merchant seaman’ - merchant as a pun on the term ‘trade’, a gay prostitute and seaman,well ... you do the math!). Gore and the writer left went to a hotel where the writer ‘gave me a perfunctory blow job which I quickly put a stop to’. To Gore’s shock, our sailor boy grabbed him in a full nelson and tried to rape him. Gore threw him off his back 'bucking like a pony in pain' and punched him away.

Will wonders ever cease?"

Explains his antipathy to gays (the biggest homophobes are often gay. I guess he was trying to be "at cause" over Gore Vidal. Hubbard forgot to establish ARC before he had sex with him. Or he failed to grant Gore's beingness, or do I mean isness?

See the 20-plus Republican gay sex scandals listed here:
http://dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals

Not that Democrats can't do the same thing. But the Republicans who are most outspoken in their opposition to gay rights often tend to get caught with male prostitutes.

Well, it wouldn't be Ron's first or last piece of hypocrisy.
 
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=5475&p=54080

Posted by "Pippi":

"The author Gore Vidal has taken a pot shot or two at Ron Hubbard and Scientology over the years, and now in a novel historical revelation, I surmise why! Gore had an, uhhhmm, run in with Ron.

Both Gore and Ron were sailors stationed in the Pacific Northwest during world war 2. Gore writes of Ron: 'He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity but perfectly amiable to talk to'. Gore relates that he picked up our sailor in a Seattle bar (Gore calls him a ‘merchant seaman’ - merchant as a pun on the term ‘trade’, a gay prostitute and seaman,well ... you do the math!). Gore and the writer left went to a hotel where the writer ‘gave me a perfunctory blow job which I quickly put a stop to’. To Gore’s shock, our sailor boy grabbed him in a full nelson and tried to rape him. Gore threw him off his back 'bucking like a pony in pain' and punched him away. ...

Is there an original source (i.e. one which comes directly from Gore Vidal) on this story, or is it just another myth being bandied about about hubbard's sexual predilections & general hypocrisy?

I don't consider the story especially implausible, but without a confirmation from a direct source attributable to Vidal (autobiography, literary editor, etc.) it's just another bit of unsubstantiated gossip about hubbard.


Mark A. Baker
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Doesn't surprise me a bit.

Slate Magazine said:
Why have some of the nation's most vehement anti-gay activists—Ted Haggard, Larry Craig—had gay sex scandals of their own? An op-ed in the New York Times' Sunday Review section tries to explain. The authors of the piece, two research psychologists, say they have "empirical evidence that homophobia can result, at least in part, from the suppression of same-sex desire."

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...imes_on_a_new_study_of_secret_sexuality_.html

And that suppression language is in the original article. How appropriate!!!!
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
Where did Vidal allegedly say this? I'm inclined to doubt it, not because of any regard for L. Ron Hubbard, but because I think we'd have heard about it before now.
 

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=5475&p=54080

Posted by "Pippi":

"The author Gore Vidal has taken a pot shot or two at Ron Hubbard and Scientology over the years, and now in a novel historical revelation, I surmise why! Gore had an, uhhhmm, run in with Ron.

Both Gore and Ron were sailors stationed in the Pacific Northwest during world war 2. Gore writes of Ron: 'He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity but perfectly amiable to talk to'. Gore relates that he picked up our sailor in a Seattle bar (Gore calls him a ‘merchant seaman’ - merchant as a pun on the term ‘trade’, a gay prostitute and seaman,well ... you do the math!). Gore and the writer left went to a hotel where the writer ‘gave me a perfunctory blow job which I quickly put a stop to’. To Gore’s shock, our sailor boy grabbed him in a full nelson and tried to rape him. Gore threw him off his back 'bucking like a pony in pain' and punched him away.

Will wonders ever cease?"

Explains his antipathy to gays (the biggest homophobes are often gay. I guess he was trying to be "at cause" over Gore Vidal. Hubbard forgot to establish ARC before he had sex with him. Or he failed to grant Gore's beingness, or do I mean isness?

See the 20-plus Republican gay sex scandals listed here:
http://dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals

Not that Democrats can't do the same thing. But the Republicans who are most outspoken in their opposition to gay rights often tend to get caught with male prostitutes.

Well, it wouldn't be Ron's first or last piece of hypocrisy.

Hubbard was just trying to put ethics in on him....but only the tip:roflmao::
 
http://www.factnet.org/node/1370/#gorevidal


"...Vidal, Gore (Author):
"When I return to the United States, I phone the writer Gore Vidal, who was one of the signers of the open letter to Helmut Kohl in the International Herald Tribune. 'It's got me into endless trouble in Germany,' he sighs. 'I had been led to believe by Bert Fields, my lawyer - he asked would I put my name to it - that it was a civil liberties gesture, not approbation of Scientology as a religion or a scam. I regard it as the second, personally, but then I'm not an authority.' Vidal said he agreed to sign when he was told that children of Scientologists were barred from kindergartens. And, Vidal wants it known, he once met with Hubbard in the 1950s, when Scientology was in its infancy. 'He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity,' says the historical novelist, 'but perfectly amiable to talk to.'" - George magazine, "Clash of the Titans: Scientology vs. Germany" by Russ Baker; April 1997.Vidal, Gore (Author):
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
So where does Vidal say Hubbard tried to give him a blowjob? I don't deny that this may have happened, mind you -- but "Pippi," the poster on ocmb, is merely reporting second hand something Vidal supposedly said; he doesn't actually quote Vidal. If Vidal reported such an incident, wouldn't it be worth quoting Vidal's own words?

As Panda said, sounds like BS.
 
OMG ! Poor old dead Hubbie being trashed talked by Gore Vidal ?

What IS the world coming to !

Don't get your knickers in a twist, Toadie. Vidal is dead too. :coolwink:

Besides, there has been no evidence presented that Vidal actually said much of what was attributed to him. :)


Mark A. Baker :whistling:
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Lots of fun to be had with Projective Identification.

"Projective identification differs from simple projection in that projective identification can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, whereby a person, believing something false about another, relates to that other person in such a way that the other person alters their behavior to make the belief true. The second person is influenced by the projection and begins to behave as though he or she is in fact actually characterized by the projected thoughts or beliefs, a process that may happen outside the awareness of both parties involved.

The recipient of the projection can suffer 'a temporary loss of insight, a sense of experiencing strong feelings...[of] being manipulated so as to be playing a part, no matter how difficult to recognise, in somebody else's phantasy'. One therapist, for example, describes how 'I felt the progressive extrusion of his internalised mother into me, not as a theoretical construct but in actual experience...The intonation of my voice altered, became higher with the distinctly Ur-mutter quality'.

In everyday life, it can happen that 'the recipient feels almost kidnapped or coerced into carrying out the unconscious phantasy of the projector' In extreme cases, the recipient can lose any sense of self - 'to become inhuman, a moving bag of skin, with important symbolic messages rattling about inside' - and may find themselves acting out in 'attempts at self-exorcism; the attempt to rid the self of projections or possession'.

Hubbard did this on a vast scale, I think.

He certainly wanted gay or Bi people to feel bad about themselves.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Kalki's a good book, actually. Vidal, though, obviously does let his feelings about EST and Scn show. IIRC, his comments about the two were customarily juxtaposed. He obviously though those weren't good venues.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
IMO every man obsessed with gayness/bi-ness fears the same in himself. There is considerable evidence to indicate that there are plenty of men who categorically do not identify as gay or bi but who nevertheless occasionally have sex with men.

So if the excerpt above were true, I wouldn't be a bit surprised. (I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't true either.)

I think Hubbard, and by extension the Sea Org, was so twisted and warped on the subject of sex that it always made me wonder how twisted/warped he himself was. Same goes for all those obsessive religious types you see in America (and elsewhere) that are so obsessed by homosexuality. If they hate it so much, just ignore it or let it go. What are they afraid of?
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I think that's a truism, Petey. I think a person can have a variety of reasons to be phobic about something, other than just that they actually are secretly inclined that way or even fully doing it in secret.

I know that there are people who inveigh about sexual mores and who are doing the very things they preach against, in secret, or would like to. There, I agree.

But I think there can be other reasons to get hot under the collar (or pants) about something. The human condition is rich and varied.
 
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