SP declare explained to a non-scientologist

Mary

Patron with Honors
My family are utterly confused and distraught with worry about my daughter who they dearly love. She is in the Sea Org and refuses to have any contact with them as long as they are in contact with me.


This is an excerpt from a letter to my brother. He is a non Scientologist.

I’ve edited names and details so as to remain anon.


“I did want to tell you what has been going on regards this situation with my daughter, ex-husband and the Church of $cientology. I may have told you some of this before, but it does me good to let off a little steam.

I have had it with being in fear of them, trying to keep quiet about it, hoping that they would realise that they'd made a terrible mistake etc, or that I could do whatever steps (called "A to E") they wanted me to take to get this declare lifted.

You have to understand that this "declare" is a declaration to all Scientologists that labels me a Suppressive Person. By their definition, it means an evil being, a insane psychotic who's sole intention and purpose is the destruction of all people and things around him. You have known me all my life, do I really fit this description?

Any Scientologist who has any contact with me is labeled PTS (potential trouble source). That means that they will become ill and or insane themselves, perhaps become criminal, lose any gains they made in Scn and generally will do very badly in life.

Previously there was about 2 years of my repeatedly writing to them (International Justice Chief section) very polite letters. The very few replies they sent back took months to arrive and the answers were pretty useless.

Eventually, I managed to get an agreement from them to review the Declare on me. I immediately got a plane to their headquarters. I stayed in a Hotel nearby, waiting to be seen. Almost three weeks later, the day before I told them I could not stay any longer and had to leave the next day, they arranged a meeting for 11pm that night. I waited and waited, it was approx 2.00am that I was finally given 10 minutes of their precious time.

I was told later, that they had reviewed the declare and decided that it should stand.

The only option I was given was to do the A to E steps. The first step in this program is to "stop all attacks". This means that I have to disconnect from and divorce my husband, disconnect and have no contact with my son and have absolutely no contact with anyone who they consider to be a Scientologist.

Any Scientologist who does have any contact with me will also be declared a suppressive person. My husband and son have currently been issued with PTS declares and they will eventually get their Suppressive Person declares. This applies to some of my husband’s family, all our friends and my son's friends that are or were involved in Scn to any degree. (Yes, whether or not they still consider themselves to be Scientologists!)

I have found out from the many, many anti-scientology websites that the number of declares in recent years is of staggering proportions. The Church has declared thousands and thousands of people.

A great number of these people were previously in the Sea Org or on staff at local organisations. Many gave years and years of dedicated hard work for practically no pay, had no time off for themselves or their families and sometimes tolerated appalling living conditions. Many gave up all their money, their education, their house, their careers, all their time and effort in the belief that they were doing something noble and good to help mankind.

It is utterly impossible for anyone to believe that they are, all of them, actually evil, insane, psychotic beings.


I've recently been through a major episode with their International Justice Chief section. It started about 4 weeks ago. After 3 years of almost no communication from them they started a major barrage of telephone calls, several times a day from various people, emails, packages in the mail etc.

Apparently, they have come up with a "special" program for me and my husband whereby we don't have to get divorced. My husband would be allowed to do the A to E steps with me. No mention was made about my not having to disconnect from my son.

The program consists of:

1. Buying sets of the newly released Basic Books and Lectures to donate to libraries. They require a minimum of 15 sets at $450 each.

2. Doing some amends project in the field; work for some unspecified amount of time getting Scn products into local schools or hospitals etc.

3. "Handle" the out-ethics situation that caused the declare in the first place - I cannot imagine what the f*@!*#! they think I'm going to do about that.

4. Complete a major course in Scientology. This would cost approx $2000 each and would take a minimum of 6 months full time.

5. Write up everything we have done and request to be re-instated.

Even if we did pay over something like $13,000 for the library donations and the courses, do the amends project, handle the ethics and complete the course etc, there is still no guarantee that it would be enough to lift the declare.

I love my daughter very much and would go to great lengths to see her again. But I cannot agree to this - it is plain and simple extortion and blackmail from a criminal organisation that should be exposed."
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
My family are utterly confused and distraught with worry about my daughter who they dearly love. She is in the Sea Org and refuses to have any contact with them as long as they are in contact with me.


This is an excerpt from a letter to my brother. He is a non Scientologist.

I’ve edited names and details so as to remain anon.


“I did want to tell you what has been going on regards this situation with my daughter, ex-husband and the Church of $cientology. I may have told you some of this before, but it does me good to let off a little steam.

I have had it with being in fear of them, trying to keep quiet about it, hoping that they would realise that they'd made a terrible mistake etc, or that I could do whatever steps (called "A to E") they wanted me to take to get this declare lifted.

You have to understand that this "declare" is a declaration to all Scientologists that labels me a Suppressive Person. By their definition, it means an evil being, a insane psychotic who's sole intention and purpose is the destruction of all people and things around him. You have known me all my life, do I really fit this description?

Any Scientologist who has any contact with me is labeled PTS (potential trouble source). That means that they will become ill and or insane themselves, perhaps become criminal, lose any gains they made in Scn and generally will do very badly in life.

Previously there was about 2 years of my repeatedly writing to them (International Justice Chief section) very polite letters. The very few replies they sent back took months to arrive and the answers were pretty useless.

Eventually, I managed to get an agreement from them to review the Declare on me. I immediately got a plane to their headquarters. I stayed in a Hotel nearby, waiting to be seen. Almost three weeks later, the day before I told them I could not stay any longer and had to leave the next day, they arranged a meeting for 11pm that night. I waited and waited, it was approx 2.00am that I was finally given 10 minutes of their precious time.

I was told later, that they had reviewed the declare and decided that it should stand.

The only option I was given was to do the A to E steps. The first step in this program is to "stop all attacks". This means that I have to disconnect from and divorce my husband, disconnect and have no contact with my son and have absolutely no contact with anyone who they consider to be a Scientologist.

Any Scientologist who does have any contact with me will also be declared a suppressive person. My husband and son have currently been issued with PTS declares and they will eventually get their Suppressive Person declares. This applies to some of my husband’s family, all our friends and my son's friends that are or were involved in Scn to any degree. (Yes, whether or not they still consider themselves to be Scientologists!)

I have found out from the many, many anti-scientology websites that the number of declares in recent years is of staggering proportions. The Church has declared thousands and thousands of people.

A great number of these people were previously in the Sea Org or on staff at local organisations. Many gave years and years of dedicated hard work for practically no pay, had no time off for themselves or their families and sometimes tolerated appalling living conditions. Many gave up all their money, their education, their house, their careers, all their time and effort in the belief that they were doing something noble and good to help mankind.

It is utterly impossible for anyone to believe that they are, all of them, actually evil, insane, psychotic beings.


I've recently been through a major episode with their International Justice Chief section. It started about 4 weeks ago. After 3 years of almost no communication from them they started a major barrage of telephone calls, several times a day from various people, emails, packages in the mail etc.

Apparently, they have come up with a "special" program for me and my husband whereby we don't have to get divorced. My husband would be allowed to do the A to E steps with me. No mention was made about my not having to disconnect from my son.

The program consists of:

1. Buying sets of the newly released Basic Books and Lectures to donate to libraries. They require a minimum of 15 sets at $450 each.

2. Doing some amends project in the field; work for some unspecified amount of time getting Scn products into local schools or hospitals etc.

3. "Handle" the out-ethics situation that caused the declare in the first place - I cannot imagine what the f*@!*#! they think I'm going to do about that.

4. Complete a major course in Scientology. This would cost approx $2000 each and would take a minimum of 6 months full time.

5. Write up everything we have done and request to be re-instated.

Even if we did pay over something like $13,000 for the library donations and the courses, do the amends project, handle the ethics and complete the course etc, there is still no guarantee that it would be enough to lift the declare.

I love my daughter very much and would go to great lengths to see her again. But I cannot agree to this - it is plain and simple extortion and blackmail from a criminal organisation that should be exposed."

Wow!!!

Right on, Mary!!! :)
 

Div6

Crusader
You have got to be f********g kidding!!!!!!!!!!!

Emotional Blackmail to sell DM's squirrel tech!!!!?????????

WTF.

Is this in writing somewhere? Did they show you an issue or writeup? If so, please post it for the world to see. This smacks of utter desperation....

Please read Blown For Goods writeup on how to get someone off of the Int Base. I do not know if your daughter is there, or some other base, but it should work anywhere.

I didn't think they could go any lower.

You have proved me incorrect in that assumption.

I wish you all the best in correcting this travesty.
 

Mary

Patron with Honors
Many thanks for your replies Alanzo and Div 6.

No, nothing in writing. They also seem to be careful to leave little or no record of what is said.

It seems that they are very desperate when they resort to regging SPs just to sell books and courses.

Luckily my daughter is not at the Int Base. I think she is relatively safe where she is - I hope so.

I would love to know what their real stats are on selling this stuff. If all Scientologists now have to do these courses, (a huge amount of books and tapes, including the full PDC!) there are surely going to be many un-happy campers.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
That made me so sad. Too many reminders. We had to do something like that to explain my dads declare to non-Scn family.

It is just completely not understandable to a non-Scnist.

Its just not understandable in any sense... Its flat out insane.

Its...

Its...

Argh!!

I feel your pain.

Man that sucks.
 
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Tanstaafl

Crusader
I love my daughter very much and would go to great lengths to see her again. But I cannot agree to this - it is plain and simple extortion and blackmail from a criminal organisation that should be exposed."

Right on, Mary.
Don't compromise your own integrity.

Love

tanstaafl
 

duddins

Patron Meritorious
I love my daughter very much and would go to great lengths to see her again. But I cannot agree to this - it is plain and simple extortion and blackmail from a criminal organisation that should be exposed."

Dear Mary,

Merriam Webster: The definition of oppressive:
Main Entry: op·pres·sive
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpre-siv\
Function: adjective
Date: circa 1677
1 : unreasonably burdensome or severe <oppressive legislation>
2 : tyrannical
3 : overwhelming or depressing to the spirit or senses <an oppressive climate>


Clear oppression. It is good that you see it for what it is. I am so sorry that you have to go through this.

Maybe if you did have something in writing it could serve as evidence some day. I would require any such demands from them in writing. Simply because it is extortion.

Hang in there.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
No, nothing in writing. They also seem to be careful to leave little or no record of what is said.

Mary that is just so awful.
I agree with Duddins it's worth trying to get something in writing if at all possible. Maybe say you need to do a program...if it isn't written it isn't true type of thing. This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be widely known.

Absolutely disgusting! I hope your daughter, like my family, come to realise the truth of real freedom one day soon.
 

sugaree

Patron
I agree. SP declares and disconnection policies are completely un-understandable to a non-Scn'ist, unless one has undertaken an extensive study and even then . .

But your letter is an excellent attempt, Mary. I cannot imagine being in the position of trying to explain - although I have been subjecting my dad for months to all I've learned re Scn. Up until today (with the exception of Bea's recent situation, which was/is not an abstract policy, but something to which he could relate as a dad), he just did not believe a word of it. Because IF ABC were true, then govt agency XYZ would have intervened long ago!!!

Or so he would argue until today when we spoke about legal issues concerning CoS. I went into my usual rant and once he was finally convinced that people inside the Church or SO & INT base MAY be powerless or unwilling to act or complain, he then asked, "well, what about the families??" Why don't moms and dads, brothers and sisters, aunts, uncles or adults kids help them?

DISCONNECTION.

Suddenly he got it.

And speaking as an outsider, Mary, not that you asked for input or mine, I would perhaps explain why the policy really exists. You covered SP's and how it does not make sense, but I got the feeling you were trying to make it make sense from the inside out. As a scientologist.

I would instead get down to cult basics and explain, for example, just how members are isolated, the effects such isolation has and how disconnection serves the organization, keeps members from leaving or learning anything that might cause disaffection.

Disconnection DOES make sense from the perspective of the cult or those in charge.

I can understand why you would not think in cult terms, but if you really want your family to get it, that would be your best bet in my opinion. In any event, congrats on sticking up for yourself and maintaining your integrity. NO ONE can take that away from you.

Sugaree

PS. I noticed after I posted that you were explaining SP declares, not disconnection. Fwiw, it is all the same thing to me, as they both serve the same purpose for the organization. It must be hard if one has ever believed in these concepts, especially that of the SP, to impersonally, nonjudgmentally explain them in functional, cult terms. Or to even emotionally detach from the beliefs, as I think your letter reflected, such as when you wrote that "t is utterly impossible for anyone to believe that they are, all of them, actually evil, insane, psychotic beings." OF COURSE it is!!!! That you felt the need to even pose the question suggested to me that you are still struggling to make sense out of it all. But your never-Scn relatives would dismiss these notions as absurd w/o a second or first thought, for that matter. I suspect that they may perceive what's really going on in those cult terms from what you did write, although being explicit can't hurt & might help - both of you.

Moreover, there ARE no SP's per se, but in LRH's day, our understanding of the human personality & mental illness was not what it is today. Not only is there much more to (real) personality pathology than SP/not SP, but psychosis has NOTHING to do personality disorders or evil. And insanity is simply a legal term that no one still seriously uses, certainly not literally. Rather, psychosis, which can produce legal insanity, is a brain disease, a thought disorder. The point is that these are things that I believe are common knowledge and sense among most of the general population. Maybe not with such specificity, but it is generally understood that psychosis is not something one chooses or suddenly becomes afflicted with in mid-life. Or that the CoS is any position to make such diagnoses in the first place.

Bottom line, they know you are not an SP, but simply someone who is no longer willing to lend her unconditional support to an organization. It really does not matter why to those who have never been Scientologists.
 
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Mary

Patron with Honors
Sugaree,

What you wrote was very interesting and I think you raised some very valid points.

For a long while after the declare I tried to play it down and told the family that it's probably some sort of mis-understanding and it will surely sort itself out.

I did this in an attempt to protect the PR of the Cof$. God, was I stupid!!

I'm sure many public Cof$ members don't have a clue about the abuses that go on - I certainly didn't.

It wasn't until I committed utter heresy, by reading the posts on this message board, that I began to learn those things that the Church did not want me to know about.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Thought this was well worth a :bump2: for those who wish to understand more about the abject cruelty inflicted by the policies of CO$.

JB.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
My family are utterly confused and distraught with worry about my daughter who they dearly love. She is in the Sea Org and refuses to have any contact with them as long as they are in contact with me.


This is an excerpt from a letter to my brother. He is a non Scientologist.

I’ve edited names and details so as to remain anon.


“I did want to tell you what has been going on regards this situation with my daughter, ex-husband and the Church of $cientology. I may have told you some of this before, but it does me good to let off a little steam.

I have had it with being in fear of them, trying to keep quiet about it, hoping that they would realise that they'd made a terrible mistake etc, or that I could do whatever steps (called "A to E") they wanted me to take to get this declare lifted.

You have to understand that this "declare" is a declaration to all Scientologists that labels me a Suppressive Person. By their definition, it means an evil being, a insane psychotic who's sole intention and purpose is the destruction of all people and things around him. You have known me all my life, do I really fit this description?

Any Scientologist who has any contact with me is labeled PTS (potential trouble source). That means that they will become ill and or insane themselves, perhaps become criminal, lose any gains they made in Scn and generally will do very badly in life.

Previously there was about 2 years of my repeatedly writing to them (International Justice Chief section) very polite letters. The very few replies they sent back took months to arrive and the answers were pretty useless.

Eventually, I managed to get an agreement from them to review the Declare on me. I immediately got a plane to their headquarters. I stayed in a Hotel nearby, waiting to be seen. Almost three weeks later, the day before I told them I could not stay any longer and had to leave the next day, they arranged a meeting for 11pm that night. I waited and waited, it was approx 2.00am that I was finally given 10 minutes of their precious time.

I was told later, that they had reviewed the declare and decided that it should stand.

The only option I was given was to do the A to E steps. The first step in this program is to "stop all attacks". This means that I have to disconnect from and divorce my husband, disconnect and have no contact with my son and have absolutely no contact with anyone who they consider to be a Scientologist.

Any Scientologist who does have any contact with me will also be declared a suppressive person. My husband and son have currently been issued with PTS declares and they will eventually get their Suppressive Person declares. This applies to some of my husband’s family, all our friends and my son's friends that are or were involved in Scn to any degree. (Yes, whether or not they still consider themselves to be Scientologists!)

I have found out from the many, many anti-scientology websites that the number of declares in recent years is of staggering proportions. The Church has declared thousands and thousands of people.

A great number of these people were previously in the Sea Org or on staff at local organisations. Many gave years and years of dedicated hard work for practically no pay, had no time off for themselves or their families and sometimes tolerated appalling living conditions. Many gave up all their money, their education, their house, their careers, all their time and effort in the belief that they were doing something noble and good to help mankind.

It is utterly impossible for anyone to believe that they are, all of them, actually evil, insane, psychotic beings.


I've recently been through a major episode with their International Justice Chief section. It started about 4 weeks ago. After 3 years of almost no communication from them they started a major barrage of telephone calls, several times a day from various people, emails, packages in the mail etc.

Apparently, they have come up with a "special" program for me and my husband whereby we don't have to get divorced. My husband would be allowed to do the A to E steps with me. No mention was made about my not having to disconnect from my son.

The program consists of:

1. Buying sets of the newly released Basic Books and Lectures to donate to libraries. They require a minimum of 15 sets at $450 each.

2. Doing some amends project in the field; work for some unspecified amount of time getting Scn products into local schools or hospitals etc.

3. "Handle" the out-ethics situation that caused the declare in the first place - I cannot imagine what the f*@!*#! they think I'm going to do about that.

4. Complete a major course in Scientology. This would cost approx $2000 each and would take a minimum of 6 months full time.

5. Write up everything we have done and request to be re-instated.

Even if we did pay over something like $13,000 for the library donations and the courses, do the amends project, handle the ethics and complete the course etc, there is still no guarantee that it would be enough to lift the declare.

I love my daughter very much and would go to great lengths to see her again. But I cannot agree to this - it is plain and simple extortion and blackmail from a criminal organisation that should be exposed."


This is clearly extortion! Making you purchase items from the CHURCH?? Forcing you to purchase 15 sets of totally worthless books that libraries throw out! I think this is where it is clearly extortion - call the FBI! Call an attorney - Ray Jeffries!

Now "handle what got you into the declared situation"??? If you were allowed to truly handle it - you would be destroying the CULT - exposing their crimes and getting all of your family out! One needs to disconnect from the Church of Scientology and get as far away as possible. Expose the cult on the internet and go public with their criminal organization!

I would change it a little and send it off to the local press that will possibly air this on television! Send it to Anderson Cooper and ask for his help - he hates the CULT! GO PUBLIC - find others to go public with this extortion! Send it off to your senator and attorney general. CRIMINAL!
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Here's a 2011 update from Mary posted on another thread....

Hi Emma,

My daughter is safely out of the Sea Org. But still under enforced disconnection.

There is something inherently wrong with a church that forces a child to make a choice as to which parent he/she is allowed to communicate with. A church that breaks up families and enforces disconnection, using threats of losing yet more of one's family and friends has itself withholds, big ones!

This board is a great forum for Scnist and ex-Scnist to communicate openly. I'm very grateful to you for providing the opportunity to speak and hear the opinions of other people.:yes:

Best wishes and do keep us posted, Mary!
 

Mary

Patron with Honors
The Integrity and Ethics of an OTVII

I once respected and admired my ex-husband. I believed him to be a have a good and kind heart, with the courage to always do the right thing, even in the face of great opposition.

This is how the church has transformed a decent human being, with a loving family and successful business, into the crumbling, shattered, poor and bankrupted mess he has become. So terribly lonely and confused. Did I mention poor? Yes, I did. Very poor and lonely. Perhaps his only friend is that great big golden IAS plaque on the wall stating his meritorious patronage.

My son, who had not been formally declared, went to visit him recently. They had been disconnected for many years because he had kept in touch with me. But, perhaps a sense of Christmas spirit and goodwill prevailed, and he allowed him to sit and talk with his father for a short while. There was love and happiness and the promise of another visit.

This wellspring of hope was shortlived. The next six months check at Flag was to get his ethics firmly in and a thorough root canal was performed on the suppression that was causing him to pay off some of his debts and not so much to the church. HCO informed him that they had now issued a formal suppressive declare on his son.

This is a except of letter I wrote to him (edited to exclude names). Said letter, was forwarded, un-opened, directly to Flag HCO. So I might as well post it here, in the hope that one day, he might read it.


“XXX told me that you had formally disconnected from him. To say that I am sorry to hear this, is a major understatement. I am so very disappointed and ashamed of you. I found it difficult to believe that you would cut off your only son because of some ridiculous notion of the Church that he is a suppressive person.

The only reason the Church wants to cut your communication with your son is because they want to prevent the possibility that you may listen to what he has to say, and that this may make you question the ethics and practices of the Church. They want keep your loyalty, and more importantly, your money, firmly within their control.

I beg of you, not to cut XXX out of your life. Don’t do this to him, he loves you very much and does not deserve to be treated like this. This is hurting him very badly.

How would you feel if your father had told you that he believed you were an evil being and that he would never speak to you again. What kind of person does that to his own son.

XXX, please hear me. XXX absolutely needs your help and support through this very difficult and trying time in his life. He is currently finishing off his degree in Physics. No small task, he completed this whilst maintaining a full time job. AND, he is now in his first year of his Masters degree in Natural Science and plans to go on to get his Phd in Quantum Mechanics after that. He is extremely smart and a very hard worker. Don’t ruin his chances of success, just because of some ridiculous demand from the Church.

Again, I beg you to examine your own ethics and integrity on this”

.:guyfawkes:
:anon:
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
How heartbreaking.

Someone might find it hard to believe that a parent could be persuaded to behave like this - to disconnect from their own child.

It's a typical result of undergoing guidance counseling from Scientology - not just any 'ol Scientology, in fact from the Flag Mecca of Technical Perfection!

I know the truth of your testimony - it's happened to me.

On a brighter note, congratulations to you and your son and his successes.

Hold him close.
 

Jay Pea

Patron with Honors
Thought this was well worth a :bump2: for those who wish to understand more about the abject cruelty inflicted by the policies of CO$.

JB.

4 to 5 years ago when I was trying to fast track my understanding of scientology, the SP enemy declare and family disconnection policies were perhaps the worst and saddest aspects of the doctrine. It makes your brain and heart hurt. Here in the Bible-belt, you often hear stories of "shunning" practiced by Jehovah Witnesses and some fringe Penticostal groups. The effects are equally as cruel I believe.:sad:
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
4 to 5 years ago when I was trying to fast track my understanding of scientology, the SP enemy declare and family disconnection policies were perhaps the worst and saddest aspects of the doctrine. It makes your brain and heart hurt. Here in the Bible-belt, you often hear stories of "shunning" practiced by Jehovah Witnesses and some fringe Penticostal groups. The effects are equally as cruel I believe.:sad:

Yes. The pain of being shunned by a Pentecostal cult, and having totally to rebuild my life, led me straight into the arms of love-bombing Scientologists. Also see this speech by Nathan Zamprogno presented at Parliament House in Australia.

[video=youtube;w__qaD2UsKU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w__qaD2UsKU[/video]
 

Red Valiant

Patron with Honors
Yes. The pain of being shunned by a Pentecostal cult, and having totally to rebuild my life, led me straight into the arms of love-bombing Scientologists. Also see this speech by Nathan Zamprogno presented at Parliament House in Australia.

[video=youtube;w__qaD2UsKU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w__qaD2UsKU[/video]

Ah yes, the love-bombing tech. That's how I was sucked in back in 1978. :love11:

It's funny though, when you leave, and make some noise about it, you get the exact opposite...hate bombing drills! Creepy!:faceslap:
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
To me, the crux of the matter could be stated as:

If a group (whether it's a bona fide church, a cult, whatever it is) tells you whom to be associated with, then that's a huge huge screaming red flag right there that something is seriously wrong with that group.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Even if we did pay over something like $13,000 for the library donations and the courses, do the amends project, handle the ethics and complete the course etc, there is still no guarantee that it would be enough to lift the declare.

I love my daughter very much and would go to great lengths to see her again. But I cannot agree to this - it is plain and simple extortion and blackmail from a criminal organisation that should be exposed."

It doesn't matter what you do, they will always be trying something new to extort money and support from you. They will NEVER be satisfied.

They only have power over you to the extent that YOU grant them power over you. Do not play their game. Do not jump through their hoops. Do not grant them power.
 
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