SP Times Round 2 - Moar speaking out!

Gadfly

Crusader
That is an excellent analysis Gadfly. For me what "charge" I have left on Scientology stems from KSW. That's what got me and that was the basis for all the stupid brainwashed decisions I made while in. I never made it to OTIII and when I did hear the Xenu story (as an ex) I wasn't shocked because it wasn't a whole lot different from things I had already "internalized" from studying tapes and books.

The thing that shocked me was when someone called attention to the brainwashing in KSW and I realized that I had fallen for it hook, line and sinker. It was very humbling to realize that I was that gullible. I agree with you that is the root of the problem, and the thing that needs to be brought to light.

-TL

I think that it is this EXTREMISM (directly based on KSW and related issues) that needs to be pointed out over and over and over. THAT can easily be made real to the general public. Make comparisons to other very fanatical groups, and especially explain just how amazingly organized the whole Scientology indoctrination process is. How this indoctrination is systematically brought about through the application of study tech, Chinese School, repetition, "number of times over material equals certainty", briefings, events, musters, success strories, qual correction, disagreement remedies, ethics, justice, KSW #1 and Technical Degrades at the beginning of EVERY course pack, etc.

It seems that a decent journalist could put this all together in a very nice article. It is not difficult to understand, and not difficult to communicate to others. This aspect of intentionally created fanaticism needs to be explained and brought to light to the public at large. The "gung-ho" attitude. The "live or die in the attempt" attitude. The "never fear to harm another in a just cause" attitude. The disdain for "panty-waist dilettantes and namby-pamby types". The "never allow a half-minded approach" attitude. Tone 40, together on the same terms, all on-board 100%!!!! Cripes, I could spend 4-5 hours with all the volumes and cull MANY such quotes.

THAT message subliminally sinks into every Scientology Church member - largely unknowlingly and unconsciously. This creates a SEVERE uncompromising viewpoint, unlike anything anywhere else! Fundamentally, Church members come to accept and especially BELIEVE all of that.

It is rare anywhere else in the civilized world to find such a severe form of fanaticism where the members are uniformly convinced to conceive of themselves as being part of a VITAL formula where WHAT ONE DOES NOW (IN SCIENTOLOGY) DETERMINES THE FATE OF EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD FOR ALL ETERNITY. I suspect that almost any person reading a careful detailed explanation of this would be floored! Hubbard has perfected the art of indoctrination, with gradients applied to the above aspects, in his Church of Scientology.
 
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Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
The loop needs to be closed -- between KSW/Xenu/BTs -- which scientologists use to justify their crimes -- to fight the evil aliens. Once that loop is focused on, then discussing the Xenu story, will no longer seem like 'ridicule'.


That's my point Gadfly, scientology uses their members belief in 'KSW/Xenu/BTs' to justify their crimes and nasty behavior. I think you just said -- the case could be made -- but you just don't fully embrace it yet.


As for me, I will be satisfied with nothing less than, Xenu's picture on the front page of The St. Pete Times -- in color -- above the fold -- Sunday edition please. And here's a Washington Post cartoon for that issue: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/comics/wiley/images/5_19.gif

I'm not sure if you were a scilon or not but you must realize that only a tiny minority have actually seen that stuff. The most dedicated and "unreasonable" ones you run into are the teenagers who will probably NEVER lay eyes on that - at least while they're still in. It's KSW that is driven into these kid's heads not Xenu. I appreciate your viewpoint but it doesn't seem anybody agrees with you. I saw interviews with some of the writers of the SP Times stories and they seemed sane and coherent and I myself found that very refreshing. Like in a sane and rational way they were exposing the relaity of this cult that has wedged itself into their community.

In my opinion DM has personified KSW and it is DM that demonstrates the insanity of scn. It's the head fuck and abuse they do to people that needs to be exposed and as well as the tragedies and deaths that have resulted from following their recommendations. People can believe in Xenu if they want I couldn't care less.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
But, if various Sea org and staff members were sworn to testify in a court of law the answers would be horribly inconsistent.

You think so? I would expect every single one of them to perjure themselves, if they were still churchies.

Paul
 

CornPie

Patron Meritorious
...It's KSW that is driven into these [scientology] kid's heads not Xenu...
I agree, once a person gets sucked into scientology, KSW will help to keep them in.

However, hearing about Alien/Xenu/BTs in advance, is an instant 'DEAL KILLER' that will STOP people from ever getting involved in the first place. And I think it's a lot easier to describe.

I see no reason not to discuss both topics; crimes & Xenu/BTs.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Yes, once a person gets sucked into scientology, KSW will help to keep them in.

However, hearing about Xenu/BTs in advance, is an instant 'DEAL KILLER' that will STOP people from ever getting involved in the first place. And I think it's a lot easier to describe.

I see no reason not to discuss both topics; crimes & Xenu/BTs.

I can agree with that! Hearing vivid descriptions of Xenu and BTs could/would act as an instant preventative for most people - discouraging them from ever having anything to do with Hubbard or Scientology.
 

knn

Patron Meritorious
I can agree with that! Hearing vivid descriptions of Xenu and BTs could/would act as an instant preventative for most people - discouraging them from ever having anything to do with Hubbard or Scientology.
But it will probably attract different kind of people. There is a market for everything.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
But it will probably attract different kind of people. There is a market for everything.

I guess so. I never thought of that. There might be an entire group of folks out there who will respond positively to the story of Xenu and BTs, and who will flood in to Churches everywhere as a result!:confused2:

Humanity is a very diverse group, and it seems that just about anything can appeal to some group.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I guess so. I never thought of that. There might be an entire group of folks out there who will respond positively to the story of Xenu and BTs, and who will flood in to Churches everywhere as a result!:confused2:

Humanity is a very diverse group, and it seems that just about anything can appeal to some group.

Not 'flood', but, there will always be someone who can be sucked in. Even to 'true' Scientology.

Zinj
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Well, SP Times won't get a Pullitzer for doing what has been done countless times before. South Park already did the ultimate OT III piece.

Seems to be missing from YouTube.. But it's on Comedy Central:

Southparkstudios.com / Trapped in the Closet
(This may work for you.. I can't see it myself since Scandinavia apparently is being denied the datafeed.. Gotta be penis envy..)

:yes:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I guess so. I never thought of that. There might be an entire group of folks out there who will respond positively to the story of Xenu and BTs, and who will flood in to Churches everywhere as a result!:confused2:

Humanity is a very diverse group, and it seems that just about anything can appeal to some group.

Per stats the like of Wicca, and followers of Magick in its various guises
are far more popular than scn.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Per stats the like of Wicca, and followers of Magick in its various guises are far more popular than scn.

It might have more than a little to do with the "length of the runway", and the COSTS involved.

But also, consider the time and effort that the Church of Scientology invests in attracting new recruits. The time and money spent is tremendous. I don't think there is any other group on the planet that comes even close. How many witch's covens or magical circles have operating Division 6s? Scn is HARD SELL at every point of contact with the organization. These other groups are, for the most part, "take it or leave it", and have very little actual procedures and intricate methods devised to bait and reel the fish in. Hubbard developed it to an art. Hubbard created a very well greased method to take "raw meat" and turn them into a "dedicated Scientologist". It is varied, complex, and works VERY well with the right people. So, despite all of that, these other groups still rank higher. THAT is the interesting way to look at the data.

Additionally, official RTC Scientology is rigged to filter out all low-income people. The ONLY people who can do Scientology are people with money, lots of money. By concentrating upon and attracting THIS group of the public, which is the far smaller group compared to people without lots of money, Scientology creates the never-ending reservior of funds to keep all else going. The Church could NEVER exist within a usual paradigm of many customers buying resonably priced products (the rest of commercial reality). There is no doubt that extremely large repetitive donations, by a not very large number of wealthy members, is primarily what keeps it all afloat. And, the fairly well off members (still far above the average) are sucked dry, by constant demands of IAS, Super Power Porject, services, book campaigns, etc.

Since Scientology is marketed to the "elite", and is designed to make one feel extremely special (since you are saving every Man, Woman and Child for all eternity), Hubbard may have set it up intentionally to attract people with lots of money. He may have never cared about "broad public appeal", because he never thought very highly of the "common man" (wog). But, if your business or organization can attract and keep people with lots of money, even though a much "smaller segment of the population" - then the faucet never runs dry. This aspect is also what helps create the illusion that Scientology is so successful and expanding. The "few" endlessly contribute to the new buildings and expansion projects. But, in reality most of the buildings (orgs) NEVER do enough actual business to support themselves as isolated "business ventures". It is the endless supply of funds from the very well off that keeps it all going. In a sense, these donations from the very wealthy may act as a way to assuage their own existential guilt ("why am I so lucky and better off than most other people?"). As long as they keep donating, they imagine themselves to be "making a difference".
 
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CornPie

Patron Meritorious
I can agree with that! Hearing vivid descriptions of Xenu and BTs could/would act as an instant preventative for most people - discouraging them from ever having anything to do with Hubbard or Scientology.
Recently I began attacking scientology to people I meet, frequently all they know about is Tom Cruise. And they get tired of listening to talk about the crimes -- as important as they are.

But their jaw drops open -- when I mention Alien/OT3-7/Xenu/BTs (Body Thetans).

I reassure them when I say, "no kidding, google 'scientology xenu'".

They reply, "I believe you."

Then I continue to hammer away about; the 75 million year ago Xenu story. This puts them in shock and awe. Most every-day people do NOT know anything about the scientology space cult Xenu story.

I always build 'L ron hubbard' into my spiel, saying if his name is mentioned, or if his name is on a copyright, that means it's a scientology 'front group'. And to STAY AWAY.
 
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Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
I wonder why....

......why is David Miscavige not resigning from his post forever in order to protect his group from this well-deserved black PR as any other man in a similar position would do. I'm sure that every politician of a democratic party would do this or would be forced to do this by his party. But DM is a dictator who is not able to see that he can do anything wrong- this is the only reason why he is still clinging to his post- he is like Nero - he burns his capital city down and is still believing that everybody loves him like a god. What do you think would be his condition if he would be able to see what he is doing to his so called "church"?

"Quit your post David - it would be better for Scientology and all the people who are suffering in and through your cult."

Love

Markus
 

Sassy

Patron Meritorious
My husband always uses the old saying, "A million Frenchmen can't be wrong", so true about strength in numbers! :D
 
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Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Gang Bang Sec Checks are not covered in Scn tech, although I'm not denying they have occurred. Sec-checking IS governed by the Auditor's Code — per the issued tech on it, anyway — with the sole exception of that lack of expectation of secrecy re the pc's confessed actions. Again, I'm not talking about abuses that have occurred, only the published tech.

Assuming it hasn't changed in the past 15 years, of course.

Paul

There's an LRH ref, BC tape, where He suggested that if a pc weren't going to give up the withhold you bring a gorilla type into the session room for support -- a gang of two so to speak. Gang bang sec checks must have originated from this.

As practiced, the gang is there to overwhelm the pc/pre-OT. So overwhelmed, the being will not run his own case but one layered on by the gang. The gang is thusly righteously justified. What a glorious, victorious feeling! All need LX lists auditing that they never get. It never occurs to anyone that they are grossly out of valence. :omg:

The pc/pre-OT eventually leaves. :bigcry: :happydance:
 

elwood

Patron with Honors
The good news with the "ideal orgs" and massive ad campaigns is that the per- capita cost of getting new members is going up dramatically. It will take the cult a long time to recover their investment!
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Exposed abuses of the leader of the Church of Scientology

David Miscavige exposed as cruel bad man is not really new as you can read here:


http://www.xenu-directory.net/docum..._Scientology_Organization_And_David_Miscavige

Quote from this link:
"If one is a Scientologist he is both a victim and a perpetrator. The higher one climbs in the hierarchy of Scientology the more he solely gets more and more a perpetrator. Miscavige is truly the successor of Hubbard. He isn’t indeed the "great inventor" like Hubbard. It is also not clear if he actually believes in the "technology". But being the leader of a totalitarian, criminal and paranoid system like Scientology, he must be at least a criminal and paranoid perpetrator of the same quality as Hubbard was.

People like Miscavige, who are treating other people dependable on him like slaves and are responsible for severe crimes, are a threat for every society. If one acts like Miscavige but wouldn’t bother to cover it as "religious matter", he would immediately be sent to prison or placed behind psychiatric bars through the legislation of every modern state. Miscavige should be treated the same way. No one has the right to enslave human beings and destroy men of a different opinion just because of "religious reasons".

I have nothing to ad here.

Love

Markus
 
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