Spirited Away - Nathan Zamprogno's story

[scooter]

Nathan told his story at the CIFS conference in Canberra late last year and then also on ACA. He's an incredible guy who's been working hard to expose the dangers of ALL cults here in Oz. His story is truly horrific.

It's now been picked up by the print media:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/spirited-away-20120312-1utb6.html

 

[Happy Days]

Thanks Scooter for posting his story and it was horrendous when we heard it at the CFIS conference and to read it in print media has not lessen my reaction to this distressing family situation and how destructive mind controlling cults are.

 

[Zhent]

Great to see his story getting told out there!

Here is the video version which I filmed at the CIFS conference last year, it was truly disturbing to hear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w__qaD2UsKU

 

[Panda Termint]

Yes. Thanks for re-posting this, it's a heart-breaking story of cultic manipulation and its devastating consequences.

 

[BunnySkull]

After reading the story I'm not so sure it's cultic so much as mutually delusional individuals feeding off each other, with the help of social services paying one disability and the other to care for her.

It seems any "budding cult" that was developing at one point actually fell apart due to these 2 being so crazy. I mean is it a "cult" if there are only 2 people in it? There was no indication these 2 women were with any other people, much less actual fellow believers, any more. They just seemed to cling to bits and pieces of fanatical Christian satanic panic wack job literature (much of the writings from the 80's when it had a short lived explosion) and seem to agree with some aspects of a few fanatical preachers out there.

From reading the article it seems the only "cult" left is this pair of women, who ironic enough both see to have family who believe the other is the manipulator. The only concern might be if this pair manages to recruit anyone,but considering what I read it doesnt seem like much of a worry.

Seems more of a case of mental illness than cults, but with the ill women clinging to some beliefs popular among a few extreme fundie Christian sects.

 

[Panda Termint]

Oh, I think you'll find something Cult-like if you actually look.

http://www.shepherdsheart.com.au/index.php?p=1_1_Home
http://www.shepherdsheart.com.au/index.php?p=1_26_Understanding-Spiritual-Dissociation
http://www.shepherdsheart.com.au/index.php?p=1_21_What-Spiritual-Dissociation-Really-Is

 

[Jump]

After reading the story I'm not so sure it's cultic so much as mutually delusional individuals feeding off each other, with the help of social services paying one disability and the other to care for her.

It seems any "budding cult" that was developing at one point actually fell apart due to these 2 being so crazy. I mean is it a "cult" if there are only 2 people in it? There was no indication these 2 women were with any other people, much less actual fellow believers, any more. They just seemed to cling to bits and pieces of fanatical Christian satanic panic wack job literature (much of the writings from the 80's when it had a short lived explosion) and seem to agree with some aspects of a few fanatical preachers out there.

From reading the article it seems the only "cult" left is this pair of women, who ironic enough both see to have family who believe the other is the manipulator. The only concern might be if this pair manages to recruit anyone,but considering what I read it doesnt seem like much of a worry.

Seems more of a case of mental illness than cults, but with the ill women clinging to some beliefs popular among a few extreme fundie Christian sects.

Even an abusive relationship can be considered cultic. Also, an abusive relationship does not require violence, just the psychological wearing down and trauma of breaking down self-worth and changing beliefs, that is, harmful control.

 

[Moosejewels]

Very interesting, but very sad story. Who's the manipulator and who's the manipulatee ?:confused2: There's got to be more to this story . . .

 

[BunnySkull]

Oh, I think you'll find something Cult-like if you actually look.

http://www.shepherdsheart.com.au/index.php?p=1_1_Home
http://www.shepherdsheart.com.au/index.php?p=1_26_Understanding-Spiritual-Dissociation
http://www.shepherdsheart.com.au/index.php?p=1_21_What-Spiritual-Dissociation-Really-Is

But this guy doesn't have much to do with the ladies, besides maybe they believe his bullshit buy into it. Sounds like he had some interaction with them awhile back, but they didn't indicate there's any active relationship. Running a website with pos cult like or crazy ideas doesn't mean you are operating an active cult.

I know their are plenty of very active Christian cults, both in Oz and here, and that guy Fagan may be at the head of one BUT the situation the newspaper described amounted to 2 women going off the deep end together. I mean even Virginia's husband is no longer participating in the behavior. It seems these two have totally isolated themselves, it mentioned no active group or church they attended now - just a mix of beliefs from some sects and their dual obbsession with Kylies personalities.

Could be they are in a group or members of a active sect but the story never indicates or says that. The situation that particular news story story spelled out reminded me far more of that bizarre situation behind "Sybil" * than typical cult involvement. Don't get me wrong, cults can be very small and in my reading some of the most extreme had less than 20 members, but the situation described in the story has left the cult realm and entered the delusional co-dependence btw 2 women trapped in a terrible fanasty.

Maybe it's just this new story or the situation has evolved to the point these two are isolated away from any cultic group that initially started this. But even Kylies family states their is not only a long history of mental problems but of her running off joining with another famiky, and abandoning and rejecting her own. Sounds like her current situation is at least the third time she's done this sort of thing, so I just fail to see how a cult can hold the brunt of responsibility in this case.

I think there are so many actual cases, of peole with relatively stable life histories, suddenly doing a 180 when they join a active cult group and destroy their lives and those around them in total submission to the cult control, that focusing on a case where the true root of the problem is probably mental illness rather than cult control does a disservice in the public awareness game.

(* for those not familiar the first big "multi-personality" coverage came from a book titled Sybil, which supposedly detailed a women who had different personalities due to traumatic abuse inflicted by her mom. However, in the past decade a book and research has declared it a total fraud mostly the work of one psychiatrist who fed into a patients delusions, made up a bunch more stuff, then coluded with her to verify and publish this as a factual case - bringing fame and recognition for the doctor which was the entire point.)

 

[Panda Termint]

As far as I recall, this IS the guy who "counseled" both ladies but you choose to think about it all means nothing to me.

 

[scooter]

But this guy doesn't have much to do with the ladies, besides maybe they believe his bullshit buy into it. Sounds like he had some interaction with them awhile back, but they didn't indicate there's any active relationship. Running a website with pos cult like or crazy ideas doesn't mean you are operating an active cult.

I know their are plenty of very active Christian cults, both in Oz and here, and that guy Fagan may be at the head of one BUT the situation the newspaper described amounted to 2 women going off the deep end together. I mean even Virginia's husband is no longer participating in the behavior. It seems these two have totally isolated themselves, it mentioned no active group or church they attended now - just a mix of beliefs from some sects and their dual obbsession with Kylies personalities.

Could be they are in a group or members of a active sect but the story never indicates or says that. The situation that particular news story story spelled out reminded me far more of that bizarre situation behind "Sybil" * than typical cult involvement. Don't get me wrong, cults can be very small and in my reading some of the most extreme had less than 20 members, but the situation described in the story has left the cult realm and entered the delusional co-dependence btw 2 women trapped in a terrible fanasty.

Maybe it's just this new story or the situation has evolved to the point these two are isolated away from any cultic group that initially started this. But even Kylies family states their is not only a long history of mental problems but of her running off joining with another famiky, and abandoning and rejecting her own. Sounds like her current situation is at least the third time she's done this sort of thing, so I just fail to see how a cult can hold the brunt of responsibility in this case.

I think there are so many actual cases, of peole with relatively stable life histories, suddenly doing a 180 when they join a active cult group and destroy their lives and those around them in total submission to the cult control, that focusing on a case where the true root of the problem is probably mental illness rather than cult control does a disservice in the public awareness game.

(* for those not familiar the first big "multi-personality" coverage came from a book titled Sybil, which supposedly detailed a women who had different personalities due to traumatic abuse inflicted by her mom. However, in the past decade a book and research has declared it a total fraud mostly the work of one psychiatrist who fed into a patients delusions, made up a bunch more stuff, then coluded with her to verify and publish this as a factual case - bringing fame and recognition for the doctor which was the entire point.)

Have you looked at Zhent's video of Nathan? I think that'll answer some of the questions you pose.

 

[sallydannce]

Even an abusive relationship can be considered cultic. Also, an abusive relationship does not require violence, just the psychological wearing down and trauma of breaking down self-worth and changing beliefs, that is, harmful control.

Yep. Exactly.

Can you have a two-person cultic relationship? For sure.

Power and control are the cornerstones of abuse. While there are greater levels of power and control (over others) seen in larger more sophisticated cults such as scientology, one can observe cultic abuse in a two-person “group”.

Captive Hearts, Captive Minds Freedom and Recovery from Cults and Abusive Relationships
Madeleine Tobias Janja Lalich.

I don’t have my copy in front of me but I know the personal cultic relationship is discussed in this book.

http://www.csj.org/rg/rgbooks/rgbk_captive.htm

 

[sallydannce]

But this guy doesn't have much to do with the ladies, besides maybe they believe his bullshit buy into it. Sounds like he had some interaction with them awhile back, but they didn't indicate there's any active relationship. Running a website with pos cult like or crazy ideas doesn't mean you are operating an active cult.

I know their are plenty of very active Christian cults, both in Oz and here, and that guy Fagan may be at the head of one BUT the situation the newspaper described amounted to 2 women going off the deep end together. I mean even Virginia's husband is no longer participating in the behavior. It seems these two have totally isolated themselves, it mentioned no active group or church they attended now - just a mix of beliefs from some sects and their dual obbsession with Kylies personalities.

Could be they are in a group or members of a active sect but the story never indicates or says that. The situation that particular news story story spelled out reminded me far more of that bizarre situation behind "Sybil" * than typical cult involvement. Don't get me wrong, cults can be very small and in my reading some of the most extreme had less than 20 members, but the situation described in the story has left the cult realm and entered the delusional co-dependence btw 2 women trapped in a terrible fanasty.

Maybe it's just this new story or the situation has evolved to the point these two are isolated away from any cultic group that initially started this. But even Kylies family states their is not only a long history of mental problems but of her running off joining with another famiky, and abandoning and rejecting her own. Sounds like her current situation is at least the third time she's done this sort of thing, so I just fail to see how a cult can hold the brunt of responsibility in this case.

I think there are so many actual cases, of peole with relatively stable life histories, suddenly doing a 180 when they join a active cult group and destroy their lives and those around them in total submission to the cult control, that focusing on a case where the true root of the problem is probably mental illness rather than cult control does a disservice in the public awareness game.

(* for those not familiar the first big "multi-personality" coverage came from a book titled Sybil, which supposedly detailed a women who had different personalities due to traumatic abuse inflicted by her mom. However, in the past decade a book and research has declared it a total fraud mostly the work of one psychiatrist who fed into a patients delusions, made up a bunch more stuff, then coluded with her to verify and publish this as a factual case - bringing fame and recognition for the doctor which was the entire point.)

My bolding.

Hi Bunnyskull.

Your mentioning Sybil reminded me of some things I came upon in my never-ending research on the 1950s when Hubbard set up scientology.

A doctor called Hervey Cleckley was involved in research and publishing on "multiple personalities". He and another author (Thigpen) wrote a book called "The three faces of Eve" which was based on their research. From what I remember of my research this was brought into popular culture by an article in Readers Digest. I may have that wrong.

This was then rapidly made in to a movie, 1957, which Joanne Woodward played Eve. She won an Oscar for her role.

There had also been popular culture interest in multiple personalities in 1954 when Shirley Jackson published The Birds Nest. This was made into a movie in 1957 - Lizzie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Faces_of_Eve

 

[baliset]

Greetings.

I am Nathan Zamprogno, the subject of this thread.

I wanted to just put my 2c worth in and clarify a couple of things. I'd do so by linking to my blog where this is all laid out but the stupidy-stupidy forum moderation won't let me as a new user.

Certainly, the Sydney Morning Herald article provides a balanced picture, but not necessarily a full one, and it might be confusing about whether this actually represents a cult situation or merely a mental health tragedy shared by two people intertwined in a destructive spiral.

My view is that it is both. What has happened to my family could not have unless the group I have identified condoned and facilitated Kylie's reprogramming, took her away from the ties of her family, gave her a new identity, and misdirected her mental health care in all the ways typical of cult abuse.

Kylie was taken to the "Shepherd's Heart" church in Canberra, and he worked closely with the Blue Mountains group and taught them the therapy program Kylie received. John Darnell, the leader of that church, openly advocates a belief in Nazi-built, demonically piloted UFOs who kidnap women, take them to a secret underground bases and subject them to impregnation in the pursuit of a demonic super-soldier breeding program. He also beleives that the Royal family are secretly shape shifting reptiles. He's been interviewed on fringe Christian radio shows and has written a book to the same effect, so in that sense he's recruiting people to that cause. He also admits he is presently counselling "a couple of dozen" people and has touched "hundreds" in his ministry career.

You are welcome to draw your own conclusions from this as to whether it actually represents a "cult". Personally, I feel the label one attaches is important only to the extent we ensure the consensus in society is that this is dangerous and must be stopped. Like Scientology.

Go to baliset dot blogspot dot com (my website) for a series of articles about the Blue Mountains sect and the Shepherd's Heart.

And thanks for your interest.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Nathan told his story at the CIFS conference in Canberra late last year and then also on ACA. He's an incredible guy who's been working hard to expose the dangers of ALL cults here in Oz. His story is truly horrific.

It's now been picked up by the print media:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/spirited-away-20120312-1utb6.html

big deal.

some christian group discovers the british royal family to be shape shifting reptiles.

this is supposed to be news?

 

[sallydannce]

big deal.

some christian group discovers the british royal family to be shape shifting reptiles.

this is supposed to be news?

May I quietly ask you a couple of questions?

1. Do you know much about CIFS? Do you know about the work they have tirelessly done in Australia to heighten awareness of cult abuse (including scientology)? If not, then may I suggest you have a look at their web site when you get a minute or two.

2. Are you just having a particularly bad day or do you generally tend to come across as rude towards someone who has worked excessively hard to stop abuses of scientology and generally knows what they are on about?

The story which Scooter links here is of a dear man who had his life and his family, ripped apart by cultic madness. It ain’t easy living with that kind of hurt and pain. Yet, this man works hard to try to catalyse changes in society which will benefit us all.

The man in this story is "one of us" in that he carries the scars not too dissimilar to many of the members of this board. So yes, getting his story in The Sydney Morning Herald (one of Australia's bigger newspapers) is news.

 

[sallydannce]

Greetings.

I am Nathan Zamprogno, the subject of this thread.

I wanted to just put my 2c worth in and clarify a couple of things. I'd do so by linking to my blog where this is all laid out but the stupidy-stupidy forum moderation won't let me as a new user.

Certainly, the Sydney Morning Herald article provides a balanced picture, but not necessarily a full one, and it might be confusing about whether this actually represents a cult situation or merely a mental health tragedy shared by two people intertwined in a destructive spiral.

My view is that it is both. What has happened to my family could not have unless the group I have identified condoned and facilitated Kylie's reprogramming, took her away from the ties of her family, gave her a new identity, and misdirected her mental health care in all the ways typical of cult abuse.

Kylie was taken to the "Shepherd's Heart" church in Canberra, and he worked closely with the Blue Mountains group and taught them the therapy program Kylie received. John Darnell, the leader of that church, openly advocates a belief in Nazi-built, demonically piloted UFOs who kidnap women, take them to a secret underground bases and subject them to impregnation in the pursuit of a demonic super-soldier breeding program. He also beleives that the Royal family are secretly shape shifting reptiles. He's been interviewed on fringe Christian radio shows and has written a book to the same effect, so in that sense he's recruiting people to that cause. He also admits he is presently counselling "a couple of dozen" people and has touched "hundreds" in his ministry career.

You are welcome to draw your own conclusions from this as to whether it actually represents a "cult". Personally, I feel the label one attaches is important only to the extent we ensure the consensus in society is that this is dangerous and must be stopped. Like Scientology.

Go to baliset dot blogspot dot com (my website) for a series of articles about the Blue Mountains sect and the Shepherd's Heart.

And thanks for your interest.

What a pleasure to find you here baliset! Welcome to ESMB!

"Personally, I feel the label one attaches is important only to the extent we ensure the consensus in society is that this is dangerous and must be stopped. Like Scientology."

I totally agree with this baliset! The overall consensus required in a caring society is, to me, a long overdue factor. Yes, it is dangerous and must be stop. I stand beside you totally on this.

You are a terrific speaker baliset! I so admire anyone that can speak before others in the way you do. Good work!

Thanks for all you do.

In sincere appreciation
Sally

 

[Commander Birdsong]

May I quietly ask you a couple of questions?

1. Do you know much about CIFS? Do you know about the work they have tirelessly done in Australia to heighten awareness of cult abuse (including scientology)? If not, then may I suggest you have a look at their web site when you get a minute or two.

2. Are you just having a particularly bad day or do you generally tend to come across as rude towards someone who has worked excessively hard to stop abuses of scientology and generally knows what they are on about?

The story which Scooter links here is of a dear man who had his life and his family, ripped apart by cultic madness. It ain’t easy living with that kind of hurt and pain. Yet, this man works hard to try to catalyse changes in society which will benefit us all.

The man in this story is "one of us" in that he carries the scars not too dissimilar to many of the members of this board. So yes, getting his story in The Sydney Morning Herald (one of Australia's bigger newspapers) is news.

sweetheart, i am severely severed in several locations as to the severe serious severity of the seriousness of this and many other things. having royal families composed of shape shifting reptiles has been a serious matter on numerous continents over numerous centurious. i myself was married to a shapeshifting reptile who thought i was a shapeshifting reptile and was probably right but if i say something lighthearted about royal reptiles and their shifting shapes may it not only be construed as rude but crude lewd and lie-sivvyous as well

 

[scooter]

Greetings.

I am Nathan Zamprogno, the subject of this thread.

I wanted to just put my 2c worth in and clarify a couple of things. I'd do so by linking to my blog where this is all laid out but the stupidy-stupidy forum moderation won't let me as a new user.

Certainly, the Sydney Morning Herald article provides a balanced picture, but not necessarily a full one, and it might be confusing about whether this actually represents a cult situation or merely a mental health tragedy shared by two people intertwined in a destructive spiral.

My view is that it is both. What has happened to my family could not have unless the group I have identified condoned and facilitated Kylie's reprogramming, took her away from the ties of her family, gave her a new identity, and misdirected her mental health care in all the ways typical of cult abuse.

Kylie was taken to the "Shepherd's Heart" church in Canberra, and he worked closely with the Blue Mountains group and taught them the therapy program Kylie received. John Darnell, the leader of that church, openly advocates a belief in Nazi-built, demonically piloted UFOs who kidnap women, take them to a secret underground bases and subject them to impregnation in the pursuit of a demonic super-soldier breeding program. He also beleives that the Royal family are secretly shape shifting reptiles. He's been interviewed on fringe Christian radio shows and has written a book to the same effect, so in that sense he's recruiting people to that cause. He also admits he is presently counselling "a couple of dozen" people and has touched "hundreds" in his ministry career.

You are welcome to draw your own conclusions from this as to whether it actually represents a "cult". Personally, I feel the label one attaches is important only to the extent we ensure the consensus in society is that this is dangerous and must be stopped. Like Scientology.

Go to baliset dot blogspot dot com (my website) for a series of articles about the Blue Mountains sect and the Shepherd's Heart.

And thanks for your interest.

to here

Thanks for all that you do to publicize the evil that cults do - it was a pleasure to share the stage with people like you at the CIFS Conference last year.

Please keep up your good work, Nathan - it's much appreciated by "us."

 

[SlackerD]

Man, this is really sad stuff. What a sad, sad story. My condolences to Nathan, I'm not sure if he'll ever get her back.