SPs Discussing Pasadena being Dead

One of the really cool things about Pasadena Ideal Org is the opening ceremony where grandiose speeches are given.

Especially the announcement that there will be 170 staff members!

Reliable sources estimate the total number of part and full time staff (days, evenings and weekends) to be appx 20.

Questions: What kind of people get up at a public event and blatantly LIE? How desperate is Scientology for "validation" that they make up an entirely delusional "datum" like 170 staff? What kind of church so obviously, intentionally and remorselessly defrauds their own parishioners?

Even more bizarre, what kind of religion has holy scripture that bestows the blessing of LYING as a holy sacrament?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyE4CLM0QIA

I remember back in June, 1971 (when I had just gone Clear, and there were less than 3,000 Clears in the world) in LA at some speech=lying to a crowd, Heber talked about how by 2000 the entire USA would be clear based on Scientology's growth curve. I couldn't believe anybody could be so stupid as to think that, much less speak that to a crowd. What a maroon! (and yes, I did know Heber, at that time, and no, I didn't say anything - (I would have been embarrassed to call him on such ridiculous BS).

Heber went on to bigger and more evil lies as "President" of the "church."

Around 1980-82 (don't remember), my friend, Robbie Levin had a meeting with Heber, where Heber told him lies to his face. Robbie didn't like that. He went to the SP Times and gave them an earful, which they printed. He and Joanie (Prather - his wife at the time) got declared. His brother disconnected from him. A few years ago, Robbie wanted to talk to his brother, so he bought 3 sets of the "basics" for $3K a pop, and Robbie was in good standing again.

It's all about the money. The lies are just a means to get the money. They aren't lying to you because they are evil. They are lying to get the money. It is really very simple.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
One can buy their way out of any situation in scn IF one id willing to fork over enough bucks.

" declares " can be made to evaporate in less time than overnight.

It is done every damn day.

For those still in, if their children get molested better get ready for the adult with big bucks to walk scot free.

Scn will turns its back on you for precious few bucks.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I remember back in June, 1971 (when I had just gone Clear, and there were less than 3,000 Clears in the world) in LA at some speech=lying to a crowd, Heber talked about how by 2000 the entire USA would be clear based on Scientology's growth curve. I couldn't believe anybody could be so stupid as to think that, much less speak that to a crowd. What a maroon! (and yes, I did know Heber, at that time, and no, I didn't say anything - (I would have been embarrassed to call him on such ridiculous BS).

Heber went on to bigger and more evil lies as "President" of the "church."

Around 1980-82 (don't remember), my friend, Robbie Levin had a meeting with Heber, where Heber told him lies to his face. Robbie didn't like that. He went to the SP Times and gave them an earful, which they printed. He and Joanie (Prather - his wife at the time) got declared. His brother disconnected from him. A few years ago, Robbie wanted to talk to his brother, so he bought 3 sets of the "basics" for $3K a pop, and Robbie was in good standing again.

It's all about the money. The lies are just a means to get the money. They aren't lying to you because they are evil. They are lying to get the money. It is really very simple.


Perfectly & simply stated!

For answering correctly, you win a free collector's edition photograph from 1966.

Coffee1.JPG

PC's (Pre-Cultists)
Levins when they were free "people".​
 
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Mystic

Crusader
We've seen this pattern now over and over. Mucho hoopla, open "Ideal Org", then it sits effectively idle. Since scientology and its management is quite oriented to machination, diabolical machination at that, I begin to wonder just for what these buildings and hoopla are fronting. That scientology is just another scam all about money is common knowledge, then just what is the "purpose" that really sits behind these chards of real estate?
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
The difference between Ideal Org and Ideal Morgue

On a typical Ideal Org set up, there are two phases: First the public is hit up for a large sum of money, $6.5 million is typical. Pleas are made of how important this is to the future of the Org, the future of the community it is in and of course the future of the Planet.

The Org pubic comes through. They mortgage their homes, max out their credit cards, rape their retirement plans, whatever it takes to get the money, the $6.5 million is raised and a big party and celebration are held. The public is allowed to celebrate for about 1 month.

Next, out of the clear blue, a bomb is dropped on the unsuspecting public. It is now necessary to raise another $5 million for the Design and Furnishing phase. This phase was known about all along but concealed from the public.

New pleas are made on the unsuspecting public, demanding another $5 miilion. What seems to happen is that the public is tapped out, their houses completely mortgaged and their credit cards maxed out to the limit. They are willing to contribute more but they simply can't. They resort to calling people in other cities trying to coerce them to support an Ideal Org not even in their own city.

At my local Org, they obtained their Ideal Org about 5 years ago in 2006 but have never been able to complete the fund raising for the design and furnishing phase. They planned on moving in to the new place in 2006-2007 and selling their existing building.

A funny thing happened along the way and that was the real estate crash which started in late 2007. Their old building lost somewhere between 33% and 50% of its value so those proceeds could not be applied to complete the purchase of the new building.

Now, Int management is stuck. They must hold on to the old building so they still owe on the new Ideal Org building plus they have collected a large portion of the design and furnish monies but not enough to complete the job.

There is now some talk of selling the new Ideal Org building which was never occupied. Int Management created this mess and now the chickens are coming home to roost and they face large financial issues.

In the long run, it will be the public who takes the licking financially since in any scenario, Int Management will always make money. The $6.5 million was donated to them so they own the new building, also they have collected millions on the design and furnish step without actually designing or furnishing anything. It is true that Int has lost money on declining real estate values for both the old building and the new Ideal building. Int did not make what they intended to make when the plan was hatched but they still walk away ahead of the game. The full brunt of the loss is taken by the Org's public who provided all the funding. Ultimately, they will likely loose everything if the Ideal Org is never opened but is instead sold off.

On an Ideal Morgue, step #1 to raise the $6.5 million would be the same but a second phase to design and furnish the morgue would not really be necessary. The public would save that $5 million. Int Management would leave the public with some finances still in their own control. That would probably be a flunk on someone in Int Management and heads would roll. One thing about an Ideal Org. If the Org is never designed and furnished and never opens for business, it sort of automatically turns into a Morgue without anyone doing anything specific to create a morgue.
Lakey
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Folks, now we return to your regularly scheduled thread which was about the PASADENA Ideal Org having been completed and OPEN for business.

Any news other than meager staff and no sign of public or any activity to get new public in ?

Could it be the bastards have just really given up on getting new people in?

That would be epic !
 

Mystic

Crusader
Yeah, ikwdblds, I dig it. And it certainly does not make any financial "sense". Thus I begin to suspect that the whole "Ideal Org" venture is but a cover for something else. Where's the big money these days? Gunrunning, slave trade, drug trade, banking, buying/selling on the international money market, oil?
 
For answering correctly, you win a free collector's edition photograph from 1966.

Coffee1.JPG

PC's (Pre-Cultists)
Levins when they were free "people".​

Wow! I've never even seen that picture...

left to right: Al Ribisi, David Anderson, Robbie Levin, Geoff Levin, John Riolo
Al was 16, Robbie was 16, Geoff was 20.

in front of the pizza parlor that used to be at 10th and William in San Jose. I remember having pizza with Pam Lancaster there forty years ago.

Forty years later:

picture.php
 
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Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Al Ribisi is 3rd from the left above,and I *think*
the guy on the far right is my old boss who screwed me royally
(Going along with Dan Owen and Harvey Schmiedeke's phony "Ethics" handling---which was 100% out tech, and they didn't give a damn. Harvey is now dead---these guys aren't too much farther along, either). Jeff Levin has his arm around Craig---second from the right--correct me if I'm wrong. For the 30 years I was "in" there were only about 5 Afro-Americans. One of the key
ones was Michael Roberts. Please don't tell me that is him, in the front. If so, that's super scary. And who are the two on the far left?


One of the really cool things about Pasadena Ideal Org is the opening ceremony where grandiose speeches are given.

Especially the announcement that there will be 170 staff members!

Reliable sources estimate the total number of part and full time staff (days, evenings and weekends) to be appx 20.

Questions: What kind of people get up at a public event and blatantly LIE? How desperate is Scientology for "validation" that they make up an entirely delusional "datum" like 170 staff? What kind of church so obviously, intentionally and remorselessly defrauds their own parishioners?

Even more bizarre, what kind of religion has holy scripture that bestows the blessing of LYING as a holy sacrament?

Good points, one and all. 20 staff? Where? We only saw 2 or 3 at 7 when we arrived, and no more at 9 when we left. I've been by there many times, going to the movies in Pasadena...and I've yet to see 20 "bodies in the shop" (Their term, not mine)----so where are these famous 20?

I think Mystic may have it correct: These "Ideal Orgs" are a distraction.
Keep looking..........keep looking, listening, and OSA? Yeah..you keep laughing----as your orgs around you crumble more.

Welcome to ALL who have left and those leaving as I type! We're having an excellent time out here, despite the lies, rumors, and stopped free speech you experience daily. Isn't that alone enough?:yes:

Pre Internet, it was true, there were only a few "SP" Sources, so it was easier to buy they were suppressive, and not to look. Now? You have to be an idiot---to keep your head in the sand. :eyeroll:

NO ONE CAN SEE YOU~! GO LOOK!!! Don't believe me~~~DO your own research!~!~!
Yes, they'll say, "If it's on the Internet, it's not true".
Really? Do you *honestly* fall for *that*? Come on!!! :clap::D:hifive::handinhand::dance2::welcome:

Tory/Magoo
 
Al Ribisi is 3rd from the left above,and I *think*
the guy on the far right is my old boss who screwed me royally
(Going along with Dan Owen and Harvey Schmiedeke's phony "Ethics" handling---which was 100% out tech, and they didn't give a damn. Harvey is now dead---these guys aren't too much farther along, either). Jeff Levin has his arm around Craig---second from the right--correct me if I'm wrong. For the 30 years I was "in" there were only about 5 Afro-Americans. One of the key
ones was Michael Roberts. Please don't tell me that is him, in the front. If so, that's super scary. And who are the two on the far left?

back row: Denny Fridkin, ex Sci (OT something), Larry Norman (never in scientology, founder of Christian rock, now deceased, but world famous in Christian circles), Al Ribisi (OT 7 or 8, still in), Robbie Levin (in good standing, hardly a panter), Geoff Levin (OT 7, barred from Flag, still in, dying of MS), Gene Mason (never in scientology)
front row; Wally Amos (Do the words, "Famous Amos" ring a bell? (never in scientology)
 

justsayin'

Patron with Honors
i thought that looked like wally. thought he died recently but i guess not.

wiki:
Wally Amos lived in Tallahassee, Florida until he was twelve. When his parents divorced, he then moved to Manhattan, New York with his aunt, where he enrolled at the Food Trades Vocational High School. He showed his interest in cooking at a very young age, and it was from his aunt, who would bake cookies for him, that Amos would develop his chocolate chip cookies recipe. Amos would improve on his aunt's recipe, which was already uncommon because it included several ingredients not generally associated with chocolate chip cookies.

Shortly before graduation, Amos dropped out of high school to join the United States Air Force. He earned his high school equivalency diploma before being honorably discharged from the military, where he had a distinguished career.

Returning to New York City, Amos went to college to become a secretary, and following graduation, took a clerical job with the William Morris Agency. Eventually, he became the agency's first African American talent agent. Amos attracted clients by sending them chocolate chip cookies along with an invitation to visit him. He represented superstars, such as Diana Ross & the Supremes and Simon & Garfunkel.

In 1975, a friend suggested to Amos that he set up a store to sell his cookies, and in March of that year, the first "Famous Amos" cookie store opened in Los Angeles, California. He started the business with the help of a $25,000 loan from Marvin Gaye and Helen Reddy.[1] The new company began to expand, and, eventually, "Famous Amos" chocolate chip cookies could be found on supermarket shelves across the United States. Thanks in part to the success of his cookie company, he was hired to deliver speeches. He has written nine books,[2] many of which have a self-help theme, including The Cookie Never Crumbles [3] and The Power in You.[4]

Due to financial troubles, Amos was forced to sell the Famous Amos Company, and since the name "Famous Amos" was trademarked by his former company, Amos had to use "The Uncle Noname's Cookie Company" as his new company's name.[5] A Famous Amos distributor at the time, Lou Avignone, heard Amos on a local radio talk show and, inspired by Amos' story of his early business success with Famous Amos and his indomitable spirit, contacted Amos with the idea for starting a new business. In 1994, the two became partners and subsequently launched "Uncle Noname Gourmet Muffins." The company focused on fat-free, nutritious muffins at that time. Uncle Noname ultimately became Uncle Wally's Muffin Company in 1999. The muffins are sold in more than 3,500 stores nationwide.
 
i thought that looked like wally. thought he died recently but i guess not.

wiki:
Wally Amos lived in Tallahassee, Florida until he was twelve. When his parents divorced, he then moved to Manhattan, New York with his aunt, where he enrolled at the Food Trades Vocational High School. He showed his interest in cooking at a very young age, and it was from his aunt, who would bake cookies for him, that Amos would develop his chocolate chip cookies recipe. Amos would improve on his aunt's recipe, which was already uncommon because it included several ingredients not generally associated with chocolate chip cookies.

Shortly before graduation, Amos dropped out of high school to join the United States Air Force. He earned his high school equivalency diploma before being honorably discharged from the military, where he had a distinguished career.

Returning to New York City, Amos went to college to become a secretary, and following graduation, took a clerical job with the William Morris Agency. Eventually, he became the agency's first African American talent agent. Amos attracted clients by sending them chocolate chip cookies along with an invitation to visit him. He represented superstars, such as Diana Ross & the Supremes and Simon & Garfunkel.

In 1975, a friend suggested to Amos that he set up a store to sell his cookies, and in March of that year, the first "Famous Amos" cookie store opened in Los Angeles, California. He started the business with the help of a $25,000 loan from Marvin Gaye and Helen Reddy.[1] The new company began to expand, and, eventually, "Famous Amos" chocolate chip cookies could be found on supermarket shelves across the United States. Thanks in part to the success of his cookie company, he was hired to deliver speeches. He has written nine books,[2] many of which have a self-help theme, including The Cookie Never Crumbles [3] and The Power in You.[4]

Due to financial troubles, Amos was forced to sell the Famous Amos Company, and since the name "Famous Amos" was trademarked by his former company, Amos had to use "The Uncle Noname's Cookie Company" as his new company's name.[5] A Famous Amos distributor at the time, Lou Avignone, heard Amos on a local radio talk show and, inspired by Amos' story of his early business success with Famous Amos and his indomitable spirit, contacted Amos with the idea for starting a new business. In 1994, the two became partners and subsequently launched "Uncle Noname Gourmet Muffins." The company focused on fat-free, nutritious muffins at that time. Uncle Noname ultimately became Uncle Wally's Muffin Company in 1999. The muffins are sold in more than 3,500 stores nationwide.

that picture was taken almost 3 years ago. Wally was People!'s agent for a good period. He works with CAA (Creative Artists Agency), one of the BIG management companies in Hollywood (last I heard).
 
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Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Joannie is long gone. No one I know has heard from her in ages.

I managed to Google that cica 2005 she and her Mom had a dinner theatre in the Dallas area and were performing there.

In 2008 she apparently got arrested over some minor traffic thing in Malibu.

Found no links to the cult. Good for her.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
. . .
Good points, one and all. 20 staff? Where? We only saw 2 or 3 at 7 when we arrived, and no more at 9 when we left. I've been by there many times, going to the movies in Pasadena...and I've yet to see 20 "bodies in the shop" (Their term, not mine)----so where are these famous 20?
. . .

I sometimes think that I ought to run an occasional 'Orgwatch', by choosing a date and time at random, finding a comfortable spot overlooking an org, and quietly filming the entrance(s) for an hour. I'd then review the tape, and count the number of different people who went in or out in that time.

My current, admittedly less precise approach has left me with the general impression that a UK org normally now sees about three and occasionally as many as six people enter in a two hour period. (Not counting the postman or similar functionaries as visitors.) I can usually identify 2-4 of those entering as being on staff, however, so I assume they don't represent a revenue stream.

I don't think I've seen a stress test table set up outside of an org since 2009.

Nowadays, we're seeing 'idle' long before 'ideal'.
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
So they guy on the far right is for sure
NOT Craig Ferrarah? Interesting. It sure looks like him.

Thanks :D

This is the most important thing, imnsho, from Dulloldfart:

Well, if we're tweaking, since "hubris" already means "excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance," then how about this?

Ideal Morgues are the tombs of Scientology; monuments to hubris and broken promises.

Sooooooooooo true, so very true! Also, what Mystic said about the distractions.


Nowadays, we're seeing 'idle' long before 'ideal'.

Interesting observation, Freeminds--thanks, also.

Happy Sunday to all :rose:

TLC
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
Yeah, ikwdblds, I dig it. And it certainly does not make any financial "sense". Thus I begin to suspect that the whole "Ideal Org" venture is but a cover for something else. Where's the big money these days? Gunrunning, slave trade, drug trade, banking, buying/selling on the international money market, oil?

Mystic, it really is an interesting situation. On this Ideal Org fiasco, if one could "pull the string" on how and why the formation of Ideal Orgs got started and why Int management spends millions on puting them there even though they tend to remain empty, that would really be an eye opener.

I don't think that DM believes that if you put a posh, extremely well furnished Org there, the public will arrive in droves. IMO he is too shrewd to actually believe that though he may say it. What really lies behind his actions, I suspect, is the following:

Putting one's money into real estate is a time proven way to make money. A company purchases real estate, fixes it up and either hangs on for the long haul, which has always been profitable or they "flip" the property at a huge profit.

Runing an Org or even the IAS is perilous. A company has to produce products and satisfy consumers OTHERWISE they are prone to receive lawsuits and/or requests for refunds. The requests for refunds at Flag and other orgs must be enormous.

When they receive donations for the purchase and or remodeling of buildings and real estate, they have no risk of having to give people refunds. They don't have to invest in Academies to train tech people and Qual people. They eliminate most of their legal problems.

The C of S is a business enterprise designed to make tons of money. What better way to simplify their operation and make more money than through converting over from delivering Scio services to "flipping" real estate to make a profit.

Look at the billions which the Catholic church and other churches have made by investing in real estate. Look at all the huge hospitals owned by the Churches, Catholic, Protestant and Jewish. You have St. Josephs Hospitals in Orange County and St. Judes as examples - each multi billion dollar successful for profit money making enterprises for the Catholic Church. People pay for services through their insurance company premiums, through medicare, etc. Eventually, they may be funded by Obama Care. What sweet money makers these are and they spread a lot of good PR and good will for their churches.

HOW ABOUT THE FIRST SCN HOSPITAL?
DM is a shrewd business man, you have to give him credit for that! Maybe some day, he'll get C of $ into the hospital business!! Wouldn't that be poetic justice - If you can't beat them, join them. Just imagine, Hubbard Memorial Hospital serving both Scios in need of treatment as well as the lait public! Now your talking some big bucks being made and some good promotion for C of $. The nice thing is that the hospital would not need to deliver any Scn tech but only deliver medicne.
Lakey
 
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