ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



St Hill

Discussion in 'Europe' started by Axiom142, Dec 13, 2008.

  1. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Knowing this cult the 'execs' were most likely 12 year olds themselves, being over watched by ten year old CMO staff.
     
  2. solo

    solo Patron with Honors

    At last, something to laugh about!

    Solo
     
  3. solo

    solo Patron with Honors

    Glad to hear there's a positive side.

    It is weird, isn't it, how bits of your life just melt into an unreal blur. I get that all the time.

    Good on you for sticking with the journey.

    Solo
     
  4. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Yes she is a damaged person produced by an insane cult. But for ANY parent, there is a line in the sand that should not be crossed or ignored and IMO there is no excuse, none, for allowing your children to be put on the streets at a tender age with no support, protection or care. It's a wonder they survived and this mother's heart can find no excuse or empathy for her decision. And yes, she had a decision.

    When I was 16 I gave my baby to my mother so I could continue to be a productive staff member. I knew she would be cared for and it left me free to save the world, yet it is a decision that still haunts me and has ramifications to this day.

    When the health of my unborn baby was threatened in 1982, I left staff no matter the consequences to me, and they were immense. I have other examples in my life I won't go into here ... what I am saying is that I faced similar choices and my children always came first, after my first regretted mistake. There is no other choice for a reasonably sane parent.

    So to have a mother allow such a thing to happen shows the extent of the damage and it makes me want to rage and swear and scream at the utter CRIMINALITY of the effing cult to not only allow it to happen, but to cause it to happen. :grouch:
     
  5. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    True, if and when she confronts the reality of what she did, she may find it too much to face. But evidence so far (just by reading what is here) is that she won't ever "confront' it or she has already 'confronted/ it but she just doesn't give a fuck.
    That's the way it is with some people.
     
  6. Kutta

    Kutta Silver Meritorious Patron

    It pains me to read this about the Cronin children. So much misery, criminality, pure evil in that organization. Evil, what was done to those children. That's what it is. You can't water it down.

    I've had a little contact with Louise. She seems to be doing well in life. My heart goes out to all of them.
     
  7. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Every time there's a new, horrific story..I find myself
    both thankful to the person for having the courage to TELL their story
    and post it
    and
    Thankful that the person telling it is now so much better.
    And I also continuously think: "this has to be THE worst".

    Until the next story arrives. Good Gawd...........:bigcry:

    I'm sooooooooooo happy they're doing better now.
    I cry thinking of ALL out there who have suffered at
    the hands of this Cult, who have not told their stories yet,
    or who are still suffering at the hands of this insidious CULT of
    $cientology.

    IF you're "in" and reading this: Please don't waste one more
    minute of YOUR life---giving it to these utter :bs: Artists.
    Don't believe me: Read, LOOK, listen, learn *both* sides
    and then make up your *own* minds. (And ask yourself:
    Why can't your "church" say that?)

    :thankyou: for this story. Bless you ALL ....

    Tory/Magoo
     
  8. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    Appears to me like they didn't really want the kids in the first place and the S.O. became a convenient way out of the responsibility of being parents and raising their children. No one who loved their kids could treat them that way. :no:
     
  9. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging

    It is worth compliling lists of SH execs at the time and it is worth compiling list of children affected by abuse Valeska and Mellisa Paris were contemporaries of Mia and Clare and so was Mandy Regines, who also got off loaded at I think 15, but her mother was captain AOSH and thus got Mandy cared for by a Scientology family somewhere in the Imberhorne area of EG.

    Racking my brains here for OSA and HCO staff at the time, I so far can think of;

    Snr HCO (and security) Austin Leniston
    Snr HCO (and security)Sharlene Turzac
    Snr HCO (and security)Dave Lockey
    Snr HCO (and security)Martin Padfield
    CLO PR Jo Reed
    OSA Jane Fraser
    OSA and just transferred from Snr HCO Graheme Wilson
    OSA Rufus Fraser
    OSA Deborah (later on that is) Sproul
    DSA Saint Hill Cathy Sproul
    Co CLO could have been Ron Norton or that mad man James Byrne
    CO CMO was probably Wendy English, I think Ginger had been busted by then.
    Or CO CMO may have been the CMOI command team: Norm Newton (as DCO Prod) and his wife Barb Newton.

    There was also around that time an OSA command team, a married couple, both got royally busted for a screw up in an effort to destroy Jon Atack. I cannot find their names, they both did extened RPF programs thereafter.

    Anyone else got a good memory for names? This first, Clare, was around 87 or 88, will try to confirm that, 2nd with Mia was I think 1991 - 93 if I am not way off the mark.
     
  10. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging

    Yes, to many SO couples and indeed it became inherent in operating policy, kids were Dev-t.

    By the way and apropos a comment in my pms:

    Despite OSA propaganda to the contrary, the cadet org was still a full blown and viable operation as late as summer 2006 when I parted ways with the cult. While couples could not have children, a lot of people with kids were being recruited and like in the past, kids were being off loaded to an awful 'cadet school' based out at Walsh Manor in Crowborough.

    The system of recruiting families, (that includes SO couples previously off loaded to Class V orgs when they fell pregnant then returned to the SO once their children had reached 10 years old) provided future cannon fodder as well as pt recruitment stats.

    I know for a fact that the neglect experienced by kids from 1996 on was only slightly less bad than had been experienced by the Stonelands kids (I can attest to that as I often found myself having to intervene when I became aware of obvious instances of neglect and mistreatment of children by the Child Care Secretary). The SO had an official religious school that every once in a while was subject to OFSTED inspections, the potential legal and PR fall out of an OFSTED black mark mitigated against conditions that Valeska, Mia and Clare were subjected to.

    I have no reason to believe that the situation has changed. The SO has and always will have a ferocious appetite for raw meat, spitting out those that prove to be a bit tough or problematic.
     
  11. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    That's an interesting list of people, I must admit to not knowing a lot of them.

    I hope they are at peace with themselves, but somehow doubt it.
     
  12. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Could that OSA Command team have been Greg and Georgina Tweedie?

    Some spelling corrections re the above:

    (Len & Dalene = parents) Regenass
    Charlene (& John) Turczak
    (Jim &) Cathy Sproule
    Graham (I think) Wilson

    Paul
     
  13. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Sorry Paul, I am going to have to correct some of your corrections.

    It is Graeme Reid Wilson, now of OSA. The po-faced and dour Scot has done some PR work for the cult, but seems to have taken a less visible role more recently. Appeared in this well-known example of how Scientology makes people happier (not):

    http://www.scientology-london.com/danger/index_files/the-way-to-happiness.php

    It is definitely Sharlene Turczak. She appears to be into training now (just over half way down the page, on the right): http://www.uktraining-solutions.co.uk/meet-the-team/

    Cathy (Catherine Julia) Sproule now appears to be Cathy Gouws.

    When I left CLO in Nov 1987, the staff were:

    CO – Steve Lake
    DCOI – Ken Warren
    DCOI (internal) - Sally Steele
    Cont Finance Director – Ray Blunden
    (something finance) – Jim Sproule
    SO Programs Chief – Maria Lake
    Senior HCO – Sharlene Turczak, Kailani Frost, Brian Craik-Smith, Lynn Ashworth
    Qual Sec (?) – Mike Phillips
    Staff Section Officer – Elan Barram
    A/ Treas Aide – Robert Wilkins
    CO SMI – Rolf Glatt
    HAS – Ann MacKilligan
    Tours Regs – Craig Mathieson, David Beale, Drew Robb
    CF Computerisation – John Wadey
    Security Chief – Kevin Tyson
    Continental Training Director (course supervisor) – David Press
    ? – Jean Tyson
    ? – Janine Brice

    In the early noughties, Bruce Perry was CO before he got declared.

    CMO staff:

    CO CMO – Ginger Smith
    Other CMO staff – Tom Hardy, Lisa Relihan, Jane Barran (Hayton), Raymond Dalrymple

    Sharlene Turczak was married to John, who was ED of London Day. Or Foundation, I forget which. Anyway, this was unusual in that Sharlene was obviously SO, but John wasn’t (presumably ‘out-qualled’). So, strictly speaking, he shouldn’t have been living in the SO ‘berthing’ which was Bullards.

    Sharlene later became very ill with ME and left the Sea Org. I saw her a few years ago and thankfully was doing a lot better.

    Kailani Frost was married to Cameron Frost, who was the SO rep in St Hill Foundation. He later got very ill with MS, I believe and had to leave the SO.

    From my own investigations, it appears that the majority of CLO staff have left the SO, although many remain Scientologists.

    Axiom142
     
  14. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Heh!

    Well, don't make a habit of it. :biggrin:

    Paul
     
  15. solo

    solo Patron with Honors


    I've had this on my mind all day today. This afternoon, I held my newborn grandson quietly for an hour and thought about what had happened to these girls and the decision their mother had made. I am certain I would never have made that decision. I know I would physically fight to protect my children and grandchildren from harm. In fact, I left the SO mostly because my son was being bullied and no-one would help him.

    It may be true that Paula and John would have been bad parents in any situation. Yes, maybe the SO looked like a great solution to them, if they thought they could unload their children onto nannies.

    Yes, there's no excuse for what happened. No mother who loved her children would do that, I know.

    But it's not up to me, or us, to judge these people. They made their decisions and they were patently wrong by most standards, but even so, we can't possibly know what was going on in their minds and how much their behaviour was determined by their church conditioning.

    That's why we're here.

    Solo
     
  16. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Lisa Relihan in 1999, working at the same Scn company I was:

    MVC-385F.JPG

    Paul
     
  17. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Bugger!

    I’ve just noticed a spelling error in mine and because of these silly editing rules, I can’t change it. :grouch:

    Jane Barran should be Jane Barram (married to Elan).

    Axiom142
     
  18. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I knew John Turzak well. He was AGO previously, and then ED London Org day. Was on the same FEBC evolution as me in 1981. I knew Charlene less well. Liked them both.

    What's up with John nowdays?
     
  19. solo

    solo Patron with Honors

    I didn't realise the two events were so far apart. Do the girls remember the names of anyone involved?

    Were Valeska and Mellissa Paris anything to do with Angela Paris (Berthoud)? She is currently the head of Walsh Manor School.

    Graeme Wilson is of course still very involved at a high level. it would be interesting if he was implicated in a child abuse case. I believe Cathy Sproule is still at Saint Hill, possibly in OSA.

    Solo
     
  20. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Cathy Sproule used to be a really nice lady. Shame.