St. Petersburg Times: Rinder, Rathbun, and more speak out

uniquemand

Unbeliever
How ridiculous. I've fooled the E-meter a ton of times.
The reason no one has done it is the people that might do it don't have a fucking clue what Scientology is about. It takes years to find out. Then you'd have to get used to fooling the meter.
Someone who doesn't know how it works doesn't have much chance. That doesn't mean it's accurate. They just don't know how to fool it.
And btw, all you get is a meter check when you join the Sea Org. Not a sec check.

So, do you feel you could train a volunteer to beat the meter, and then infiltrate the Sea Org? That would be wonderful. I'm sure we could get a lot of interesting footage by passing them a camera? Or better yet, equipping them with button-cameras?
 

CornPie

Patron Meritorious
BlackCatTango said to me in Posr #316 of this thread.
Corn Pie, -- Have you ever worked long, long hours in the day (say 12-16), for days on end (like maybe 6-8 weeks at a time till you get a day off) with very little sleep and very little food (meaning rice & beans with very little variation--no good protein, no fresh fruit or even an occasional dessert)? And add to that no contact with your family or good friends. And when you have time off, all you want to do is take a shower and sleep.

First of all, you are among "many" who have ignored the fact that my post is directed to both Org and Sea-Org employees. And I wonder why that is. I'd like to expose (beatings, pole running, peanut pushing, reg'ing, head-screwing, threats by ethics officers, anything factual but incriminating to scientology). Via VIDEOs on the Internet.

Secondly, to answer your question, on a handful of occasions I've worked long days, for 2-3 week stints, like you mention, but I always ate what I wanted, showered when I wanted. And I could always see the light at the end of the tunnel. So I'm almost certain it's not as severe as what long term scientologists go through.

But to elaborate, I have been harassed and gaslighted daily for 3-4 years. Above all, I want to expose gaslighting and harassment practices to others who may come across my writings in the future. And I want legal payback and I want to expose their practices, and those of scientology's PI perpetrators. So in my time here at ESMB, I am hoping to inspire others to get video, to expose scientology's atrocities to the world -- anything that's genuine and incriminating to scientology I will cherish. Such videos uploaded to both YouTube and Vimeo will get lots of hits, possibly millions, although the uploader may only be recognized by their own knowledge that they've done something to better mankind.

The last thing you'd really be interested in is videotaping someone else who is committing human rights abuses?

Given what I've been through -- the first thing I want is to legally f*** perpetrators who gaslight for a living. Ans scientology specializes in these nasty tactics.

If you aren't going to read the accounts of Sea Org life posted here...WWII...Solzhenitzyn...Soviet Gulags...physical deprivation coupled with social isolation...$10-20 a week...Consider yourself lucky...

I've read many accounts here of Sea Org situations -- as well as regular scientology orgs -- which you did not address. And I've read and watched information on those other situations too. And my reply is, that's all the more reason to expose those practices -- and the absolute most effective way to do that is to capture it on video, and immediately expose those videos to the world. Because I think 5 good videos exposing scientology, in the local orgs, as well as the sea org -- would possibly be even more effective than all the interviews, the articles in the newspapers in the last couple of days.

To ALL -- F*** scientology if you can, get videos of their most embarrassing situations if you can.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I like to read BFG's posts.

I'm late to post my comments, but I just have to say this is such wonderfully bad news for the cult. Right on time like my psychic friend predicted. I'm so happy about it. The dwindling spiral continues.

FFL

Tell your psychic friend she is cool, and hugs. Astrology says pretty much the same too. :coolwink:
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've only read about two thirds of this thread, so forgive me if I am repeating anything already said, but here are some observations from someone who has been off the net for a month or so.

This is great news! :happydance: Great news for all the potential new recruits to the cult. It should drastically reduce the number of people who fall into the grip of the cult.

But .....
Concerning Rinder & Rathbun, it seems they are still very much scientologists and I think it is a powerpush to get DM busted. It remains to be seen what such still-cult-believers would do if that ever happened.

Can it actually happen?

Ron set up scn so that everybody was replacable (and were replaced) except himself. DM holds that position on the Scn org board. It's a non-scientologist position. Hubbard was not a scientologist, in that he did not apply public scientology to either himself or in his management decisions.

DM is Hubbard's faithful pupil. He is emulating Hubbard's tactics as best he can. He will avoid arrest if possible, just as Hubbard did.

This current tactic of accusing former high execs of being the criminals (assault, in this case) is pure Hubbard. DM learned this from what Ron did to MSH, Kember, etc.

It is a well-proven scn tactic to say criminals had been running the show, but they were cleaned out now and scn was consequently reformed. This tactic has served them well over the years. The Founder/Leader was "uninformed" of these dispicable crimes and once informed took action to clean out the criminals.

It is hard-wired into scn to lie and abuse. Hubbard put these things into the subject itself, while publically putting a "theta" PR face to the subject.

Can scn exist without the hard-wired lies and abuse? That's the question. Can these former execs who are now out come marching back in if DM is deposed? Would their period outside have de-programmed the hard-wired abusive nature of the subject?

Or will DM be replaced by another Hubbard clone/victim who is programmed with Hubbard's abusive personality? The subject of scn is designed to program the Hubbard personality into its victims.

My guess is that DM will not be deposed or arrested, that he will sacrifice anyone else to the authorities, just as his mentor did, and hide away just like Ron.

Historically, no former leaders have succeeded in wrestling power away from "Source" and they have quietly "squirrelled" away in the field or slowly become disaffected with the subject and become inactive. Some cow-tow and stay in scn holding ineffective posts, like Diana and Jane Kember do.

This is all hard-wired into the subject which is called scientology.

I saw all this happen in 1980-82. Historically it also happened in the early 50's and in the sixties. The outcome was always an even tighter iron fist grip on the subject.

It will be interesting to see if it plays differently this time.

Anyway, whatever, this is progress. The great thing is that this info will stay on the internet forever (hopefully) which I think will fatally wound scn. My hope is that the public info will save more people from falling into the cult's grip. I fear the fate of those already in its thrall is not necessarily so good. Some will cow-tow to DM's iron fist, some will blow or be declared and take years to de-program themselves. Some will never manage to de-program themselves. That's what happened in the 80's. That's what I see happening now to people like Rinder and Rathbun.
 
...

<snip>

Concerning Rinder & Rathbun, it seems they are still very much scientologists and I think it is a powerpush to get DM busted. It remains to be seen what such still-cult-believers would do if that ever happened.

Can it actually happen?

Ron set up scn so that everybody was replacable (and were replaced) except himself. DM holds that position on the Scn org board. It's a non-scientologist position. Hubbard was not a scientologist, in that he did not apply public scientology to either himself or in his management decisions.

DM is Hubbard's faithful pupil. He is emulating Hubbard's tactics as best he can. He will avoid arrest if possible, just as Hubbard did.

This current tactic of accusing former high execs of being the criminals (assault, in this case) is pure Hubbard. DM learned this from what Ron did to MSH, Kember, etc.

It is a well-proven scn tactic to say criminals had been running the show, but they were cleaned out now and scn was consequently reformed. This tactic has served them well over the years. The Founder/Leader was "uninformed" of these dispicable crimes and once informed took action to clean out the criminals.

It is hard-wired into scn to lie and abuse. Hubbard put these things into the subject itself, while publically putting a "theta" PR face to the subject.

Can scn exist without the hard-wired lies and abuse? That's the question. Can these former execs who are now out come marching back in if DM is deposed? Would their period outside have de-programmed the hard-wired abusive nature of the subject?

Or will DM be replaced by another Hubbard clone/victim who is programmed with Hubbard's abusive personality? The subject of scn is designed to program the Hubbard personality into its victims.

My guess is that DM will not be deposed or arrested, that he will sacrifice anyone else to the authorities, just as his mentor did, and hide away just like Ron.

Historically, no former leaders have succeeded in wrestling power away from "Source" and they have quietly "squirrelled" away in the field or slowly become disaffected with the subject and become inactive. Some cow-tow and stay in scn holding ineffective posts, like Diana and Jane Kember do.

This is all hard-wired into the subject which is called scientology.

I saw all this happen in 1980-82. Historically it also happened in the early 50's and in the sixties. The outcome was always an even tighter iron fist grip on the subject.
...

<snip>

This is what is so mind blowing when still defend Hubbard, Miscavige is acting like the perfect Scientologist, he is doing exact what Hubbard what have wanted from a leader except taking any credit for successes. Hubbard was a total piece of shit who created a totalitarian cult of hypnosis addicted zombies to worship him. If you have gotten this far in this thread of any other thread like this and still believe in the crock of shit known as Hubbard's Bridge to Total Freedom, you need serious mental health attention to get you back to living in reality. Wake up people .... Scientology has never even remotely come close to producing a Clear or an OT, those imaginary states are part of the fantasy Hubbard created to dumb you down into worshiping his pathetic drug riddled con man ass.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
<snip> Concerning Rinder & Rathbun, it seems they are still very much scientologists and I think it is a powerpush to get DM busted. </snip>
That's what it looks like.. I think the scilons will rejoice and hop with merriment. DM is hated with a vengeance, even among the scilons. (Albeit a repressed sentiment)

If nothing else, it's entertaining.. I don't personally give it a rat's chance. It will be no occasion to stop fighting the cult.

:hattip:
 
That's what it looks like.. I think the scilons will rejoice and hop with merriment. DM is hated with a vengeance, even among the scilons. (Albeit a repressed sentiment)

If nothing else, it's entertaining.. I don't personally give it a rat's chance. It will be no occasion to stop fighting the cult.

:hattip:

I think it's about time to send Miscavige into hiding and pull out the reincarnated LRH to run the church, if you are crazy enough to still believe in Hubbard's circle jerk, this will not be too much of a stretch to buy into either. Virginia and Mike McClaughry already talk to him every night, they could probably let us all know when his spaceship is due to arrive to save Sceintology.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
My guess is DM will be welcomed by Iran or Zimbabwe, as long as he brings enough suitcases full of money.

He will either go into hiding or fall on his sword, and he's way too much of a cowerd to do that.

Hope Tommy the poodle goes with him.





La La (IJC really but dont tell anyone) Lou Lou
 
My guess is DM will be welcomed by Iran or Zimbabwe, as long as he brings enough suitcases full of money.

He will either go into hiding or fall on his sword, and he's way too much of a cowerd to do that.

Hope Tommy the poodle goes with him.

La La (IJC really but dont tell anyone) Lou Lou

That's if he managed to scam enough money out of the cult, if not he'll have to set up shop looking for suckers in the freezone, there is not much else he's capable of doing for a living.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
This speculation is way off the mark.
Take a moment to examine DM's ego-driven modus operandi.
He ain't gonna be running and he ain't gonna be hiding.
He'll eventually go down in a screaming heap but it ain't gonna be pretty and God help anyone standing too close at the time.
 
This speculation is way off the mark.
Take a moment to examine DM's ego-driven modus operandi.
He ain't gonna be running and he ain't gonna be hiding.
He'll eventually go down in a screaming heap but it ain't gonna be pretty and God help anyone standing too close at the time.

What would Hubbard Do? He would go into go into Sec Check overdrive, get the troops prepared for battle against the evil Marcabian Psychs, and attack the psych owned media from a remote off shore command center away from the confines of reality and the authorities. I don't think Miscavige is as crazy as Hubbard was, he will rally the cult together for as long as he can and when the Ideal Morgue project fail flat on it's face he will just bail out to a location that is safe from extradition, leaving the cult and the next Ronbot leader to deal with the carnage.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Not much else he's qualified for, there was a few of us in that position, after giving away all our goals, training years and the next billion years.

If he cant carry out the suitcases of cash let him work as a chambermaid, kitchen porter, bellboy, sewage worker, who cares. I certainly don't. All that of course after he's done time, being very careful not to drop the soap!


NO, drop the soap, Davey, be a stranglers bitch!





La La
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
This speculation is way off the mark.
Take a moment to examine DM's ego-driven modus operandi.
He ain't gonna be running and he ain't gonna be hiding.
He'll eventually go down in a screaming heap but it ain't gonna be pretty and God help anyone standing too close at the time.

On what do you base that speculation. It's not what his mentor LRH did!

What LRH did was run and hide and avoid arrest, while tightening his grip on the cult though RTC. What makes you think DM will do anything different?

At least my speculation is based upon precident set in the early 50's, the 60's and the 80's. What is your speculation based upon?

DM is no LRH for sure, but he is the closest thing to him that the CofS has. Why would he change the template set by his guru?

I predict he will anounce that the SPs have been destroying Scn while he was busy and distracted. Now he has been back on lines and cleaned it all up. Then he'll announce that he is handing control over to "trusted" loyal officers and is retiring from active managment.

He will then disappear while still pulling the "trusted" officers' chains. That's what LRH did.

Yes, he has an "ego-driven modus operandi" now let me see whose feet did he learn that personality from? .......

Until one sees scn and Hubbard for exactly what they are, grokking (fully understanding) the situation is not possible. So far, the past two years since anonymous, scientology's modus operandi has played exactly according to Hubbard's script.

Tommy Davis is no David Gaiman but he will be DM's fall guy, he'll do just nicely for the part, as he is violating LRH PR policy whilst simultaneously following other LRH orders. He'll be the next "who" six months down the line, the one who has caused all the publicity foul-ups and legal situations. He is fully set up for the role by DM/Hubbard.

DM will be scn's hero/saviour once again! It's what Hubbard was over and over and over as he busted off his loyal followers over the decades. DM will attempt the same. It remains to be seen if he is clever enough and learned to be LRH well enough to pull it off this time.

This is true scientology, this is what it really is. This is what Hubbard deliberately created to smash his name into history. DM is following orders. He got into power by being the best LRH clone and has retained it by being the one most solidly emulating LRH's personality. He will retain power if he continues to be the best LRH impersonator.

This is scientology. It is an LRH-making process. That's all it is and all it has ever been. The best LRH wins!
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
I base it on what we've seen thus far, how he operates.
IMO, Miscavige is a different Beast from Hubbard altogether.
Time will tell.
 
On what do you base that speculation. It's not what his mentor LRH did!

What LRH did was run and hide and avoid arrest, while tightening his grip on the cult though RTC. What makes you think DM will do anything different?

At least my speculation is based upon precident set in the early 50's, the 60's and the 80's. What is your speculation based upon?

DM is no LRH for sure, but he is the closest thing to him that the CofS has. Why would he change the template set by his guru?

I predict he will anounce that the SPs have been destroying Scn while he was busy and distracted. Now he has been back on lines and cleaned it all up. Then he'll announce that he is handing control over to "trusted" loyal officers and is retiring from active managment.

He will then disappear while still pulling the "trusted" officers' chains. That's what LRH did.

Yes, he has an "ego-driven modus operandi" now let me see whose feet did he learn that personality from? .......

Until one sees scn and Hubbard for exactly what they are, grokking (fully understanding) the situation is not possible. So far, the past two years since anonymous, scientology's modus operandi has played exactly according to Hubbard's script.

Tommy Davis is no David Gaiman but he will be DM's fall guy, he'll do just nicely for the part, as he is violating LRH PR policy whilst simultaneously following other LRH orders. He'll be the next "who" six months down the line, the one who has caused all the publicity foul-ups and legal situations. He is fully set up for the role by DM/Hubbard.

DM will be scn's hero/saviour once again! It's what Hubbard was over and over and over as he busted off his loyal followers over the decades. DM will attempt the same. It remains to be seen if he is clever enough and learned to be LRH well enough to pull it off this time.

This is true scientology, this is what it really is. This is what Hubbard deliberately created to smash his name into history. DM is following orders. He got into power by being the best LRH clone and has retained it by being the one most solidly emulating LRH's personality. He will retain power if he continues to be the best LRH impersonator.

This is scientology. It is an LRH-making process. That's all it is and all it has ever been. The best LRH wins!

Miscavige is not as much of a coward as Hubbard was, he will stick out a little long, Hubbard would run and hide at the drop of a hat. Hubbard was spineless to the core, it got to the point where he only directly communicated with 12 year old girls ... The Commodore's Messenger how fucking creepy was that
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
I base it on what we've seen thus far, how he operates.
IMO, Miscavige is a different Beast from Hubbard altogether.
Time will tell.

True.

The problem that LRH left behind is that anyone trying to be someone else is always going to be a poor imitation.

But DMs failings in being Ron does not elevate Ron's reputation or legacy. DMs faults do not make LRH less fault-ridden. That's the point. Criticise DM by all means, but don't allow that criticism to sanitize the generator of this madness called scientology. That is playing Ron's game - it is always what he did - he assigned criminal motives to others to enhance his own repute in history. This is what Rinder and Rathbun are currently doing, assigning criminal motives to DM and so they are playing Ron's game, dancing to his tune. DM's crimes do not sanitse LRH - I contend that they condem LRH himself, because DM is only commiting them under Ron's spell.

Personality adoption is a fail tech, but it is scn tech. Over the years I have seen many LRH clones come and go in the CofS and in the independent field. The best LRH impersonator retains the most power - this was LRH's black magic. This is scientology! DM is currently the best LRH impersonator so has the most power - simple!

When one takes a long-term view of the cult one can see repeating patterns that are repeated because they are what scn is, the repeating formats and repeating "successful actions" are what scn is.

Here are some more or less interchangeable characters from the decades of the charade that is scn:

Hubbard/Miscavige
Rinder/Rathbone/Capt Bill/Mayo/Roos/VanVogt/Many other disaffected scientologists
Freezone/ACCs/Avatar/The Process/Amprinistics/Californian Dianeticists (CADA)
Tommy Davis/David Gaiman/McMaster

The more it changes,
the more it stays the same
and the hand just rearranges
the players in the game.

Nostradamus, via Al Stewart
 
True.

The problem that LRH left behind is that anyone trying to be someone else is always going to be a poor imitation.

But DMs failings in being Ron does not elevate Ron's reputation or legacy. DMs faults do not make LRH less fault-ridden. That's the point. Criticise DM by all means, but don't allow that criticism to sanitize the generator of this madness called scientology. That is playing Ron's game - it is always what he did - he assigned criminal motives to others to enhance his own repute in history. This is what Rinder and Rathbun are currently doing, assigning criminal motives to DM and so they are playing Ron's game, dancing to his tune. DM's crimes do not sanitse LRH - I contend that they condem LRH himself, because DM is only commiting them under Ron's spell.

Personality adoption is a fail tech, but it is scn tech. Over the years I have seen many LRH clones come and go in the CofS and in the independent field. The best LRH impersonator retains the most power - this was LRH's black magic. This is scientology! DM is currently the best LRH impersonator so has the most power - simple!

When one takes a long-term view of the cult one can see repeating patterns that are repeated because they are what scn is, the repeating formats and repeating "successful actions" are what scn is.

Here are some more or less interchangeable characters from the decades of the charade that is scn:

Hubbard/Miscavige
Rinder/Rathbone/Capt Bill/Mayo/Roos/VanVogt/Many other disaffected scientologists
Freezone/ACCs/Avatar/The Process/Amprinistics/Californian Dianeticists (CADA)
Tommy Davis/David Gaiman/McMaster

The more it changes,
the more it stays the same
and the hand just rearranges
the players in the game.

Nostradamus, via Al Stewart

Yep Hubbard was a piece of shit, is a piece of shit, and always will be a piece of shit, The evil that Miscavige or anyone else inflicts in the name of Hubbard, does not change anything. Hubbard is still a piece of shit.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Yep Hubbard was a piece of shit, is a piece of shit, and always will be a piece of shit, The evil that Miscavige or anyone else inflicts in the name of Hubbard, does not change anything. Hubbard is still a piece of shit.

There you go!! Swearing like the scientologists (another footbullet of Tommy, which he probably doesnt even have a clue about...)
 
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