Good twin
Floater
Cat? Who IS in charge of negotiating our Reality TV series?
St. Petersburg Times: Rinder, Rathbun, and more speak out
- Thread starter moontaco
- Start date
Cat? Who IS in charge of negotiating our Reality TV series?
nexus100
Gold Meritorious Patron
A Modest Proposal
I expect this may not go over real big but here goes:
There is a good deal of adulation over the coming downfall of the COS. I submit this is of little real value to most of the audience here. You and I become involved with the COS in the first place because we did not see that the idea of Scientology could not possibly be true. The system as set up cannot “work”. That should have been obvious from the first talk with the first person involved, the first book, the first course.
It cannot work because the operation violates the basic premise of our existence. None of us see that completely and most I’m afraid are completely blind to it.
There are a thousand reasons for this but the simplest explanation is that we simply don’t see it. Imagine looking through a microscope. You do not see what is outside that microscopic point of view. But there is more to see if you wish.
Until that field of vision is opened you are just as likely to step into the same sort of trap. In fact you are still in that trap now. You think it means something that the COS falls. But for you, with a reality identical to that point of entry, it means little. It is about as significant as winning a war. There will be another war because the same set of conditions exists that created the first one.
Personally the COS has been a pretty good reality prod. I learned what half truth is quite well. Scientology led to the creation of the Big Kahuna, ESMB, which has to be the finest platform for understanding on this earth.
I’m not even sure the downfall of the COS is all that useful overall. But whether it is or not, it will only be useful to an individual who takes the opportunity to expand on understanding the who what when where why of life. A strident anti-COS viewpoint is not likely to help except in the understanding of why one has it.
I hope at some point everyone here will open their viewpoint to where they can know with full consciousness what the operation of this place looks like, to where the question “Do you want to learn who you are from this personality test?” gets a blank stare. “Know who I am? What a weird question.” We know who we are. We just have to see it.
I expect this may not go over real big but here goes:
There is a good deal of adulation over the coming downfall of the COS. I submit this is of little real value to most of the audience here. You and I become involved with the COS in the first place because we did not see that the idea of Scientology could not possibly be true. The system as set up cannot “work”. That should have been obvious from the first talk with the first person involved, the first book, the first course.
It cannot work because the operation violates the basic premise of our existence. None of us see that completely and most I’m afraid are completely blind to it.
There are a thousand reasons for this but the simplest explanation is that we simply don’t see it. Imagine looking through a microscope. You do not see what is outside that microscopic point of view. But there is more to see if you wish.
Until that field of vision is opened you are just as likely to step into the same sort of trap. In fact you are still in that trap now. You think it means something that the COS falls. But for you, with a reality identical to that point of entry, it means little. It is about as significant as winning a war. There will be another war because the same set of conditions exists that created the first one.
Personally the COS has been a pretty good reality prod. I learned what half truth is quite well. Scientology led to the creation of the Big Kahuna, ESMB, which has to be the finest platform for understanding on this earth.
I’m not even sure the downfall of the COS is all that useful overall. But whether it is or not, it will only be useful to an individual who takes the opportunity to expand on understanding the who what when where why of life. A strident anti-COS viewpoint is not likely to help except in the understanding of why one has it.
I hope at some point everyone here will open their viewpoint to where they can know with full consciousness what the operation of this place looks like, to where the question “Do you want to learn who you are from this personality test?” gets a blank stare. “Know who I am? What a weird question.” We know who we are. We just have to see it.
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Pooks
MERCHANT OF CHAOS
Does anyone have the links to the Scn "We won the War" against the IRS video? It's about 2 hours long and has some amazing footage of DM lying his ass off. It'd be fun to watch and document DM's lies on how it all went down, or at least give a DM version vs the Marty version and see which one is more believable.
Btw, a bit off topic, but I wanted to say that watching the Marty Rathbun video this morning was quite an experience for me. After almost 10 years of working to expose Scn, I sat and watched Marty tell the truth about what is going on inside Scn. When Marty admitted that DM was the one actually C/Sing Lisa McPherson's case (hopefully we get more details tomorrow) I actually started crying. Not tears of grief, but tears of joy. I'm not a teary, schmoopy, emo type at all, but watching that man tell the truth caused a huge surge of relief and joy. I'm going to enjoy watching the cult unfold. For the first time in 10 years, I actually have hope that DM and Scn will be exposed fully and they will be forced to stop all the harm they do.
It's been a really great day.
Btw, a bit off topic, but I wanted to say that watching the Marty Rathbun video this morning was quite an experience for me. After almost 10 years of working to expose Scn, I sat and watched Marty tell the truth about what is going on inside Scn. When Marty admitted that DM was the one actually C/Sing Lisa McPherson's case (hopefully we get more details tomorrow) I actually started crying. Not tears of grief, but tears of joy. I'm not a teary, schmoopy, emo type at all, but watching that man tell the truth caused a huge surge of relief and joy. I'm going to enjoy watching the cult unfold. For the first time in 10 years, I actually have hope that DM and Scn will be exposed fully and they will be forced to stop all the harm they do.
It's been a really great day.
Wisened One
Crusader
Oh wow.....been sooo busy nursin' my baby Oona..then I log in to see THIS, Wow..
all around, especially to you, GT! 
*happytears* Not done readin' it yet...but PLEASE MAIL ME THE ACTUAL PAPER ASAP! PLEASE! 
I'm gonna send them an email too...and also figure out how to get a few editions sent to me up here, me got to hand 'em out ya know...wonder if our local Barnes and Nobles and Borders carries SP Times....
Oh boy, WE should make today some official Holiday er sumthing!
HOW YA FEEL NOW, DAVEY BOY!?!
*god I wish there was a f* u smiley....*
uncle sam
Silver Meritorious Patron
what the fuck happend?
I-for one-liked it when you announce a renewed "militancy" . Don't calm down-you are one of our biggest posters-everyone else can be the voice of reason--all of us do not have to be
self contained and rational--it's like the Superbowl-root for your team-scream and shout!!!! Be exuberant-be joyous-and be so very thankful that you are "out".
"Let it rip"!
I-for one-liked it when you announce a renewed "militancy" . Don't calm down-you are one of our biggest posters-everyone else can be the voice of reason--all of us do not have to be
self contained and rational--it's like the Superbowl-root for your team-scream and shout!!!! Be exuberant-be joyous-and be so very thankful that you are "out".
"Let it rip"!
Wisened One
Crusader
Oh wow....THIS is a GREAT DAY! SEND ME THE PAPER, SOMEBODY who lives in Tampa, SOMEBODY! Mods: Got an error msg when I submitted the first post then typed this one, so if ya wanna delete this one fine, if ya wanna leave it up, fine.
Good twin
Floater
Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
AnonOrange
Gold Meritorious Patron
Rathburn still is a clam. That's what I see in the video. He has done the first step to come out, but he's got a long way to go before he realizes the full extent of the scam.
Good twin
Floater
Calm down AO. At this stage we are just hoping to end the disconnection and physical abuse. Please don't go off on the philosophy right now. Let us enjoy this moment. Please!!!
EP - Ethics Particle
Gold Meritorious Patron
This bears repeating...
Goes over fine and with impingement from my perspective, Nexus!
Thank you for it! 
EP
Goes over fine and with impingement from my perspective, Nexus!
Thank you for it! EP
nozeno
Gold Meritorious Patron
Good point. I hope others "get it" too but they may not and that is the point isn't it?
xseaorguk
Patron Meritorious
I also noticed that Rathburn still uses a lot of $cn jargon and seems a true supporter of the 'tech' and LRH.
But I also noticed he seems to be an intelligent, fine Human Being with real integrity.
It's funny, as he is of a similar age to me, and also got into the cult at roughly the same time young age.
The only big difference being that I left the SO after 1 year and eventually after 3 yrs became a non-active $cientologist.
His accounts of the beatings and abuse seem honest, and he even goes as far to admit having 'slapped' a few people himself.
I wonder if he will regret having admitted that.
What I did find weird is that altho he often had very good recall of events, he went a bit vague on the subject of the SP Hall.
I think there was info there he was not passing on (yet)
On the whole I am very impressed with his interview, and it definately on the level of the one with Jason Beghe for me personally.
Not everybody that was involved to this degree has the ability to communicate it so well and make it come accross so sincerely.
I missed the bit with Mike Rinder, is there and interview?.. ..as I have not found it yet
But I also noticed he seems to be an intelligent, fine Human Being with real integrity.
It's funny, as he is of a similar age to me, and also got into the cult at roughly the same time young age.
The only big difference being that I left the SO after 1 year and eventually after 3 yrs became a non-active $cientologist.
His accounts of the beatings and abuse seem honest, and he even goes as far to admit having 'slapped' a few people himself.
I wonder if he will regret having admitted that.
What I did find weird is that altho he often had very good recall of events, he went a bit vague on the subject of the SP Hall.
I think there was info there he was not passing on (yet)
On the whole I am very impressed with his interview, and it definately on the level of the one with Jason Beghe for me personally.
Not everybody that was involved to this degree has the ability to communicate it so well and make it come accross so sincerely.
I missed the bit with Mike Rinder, is there and interview?.. ..as I have not found it yet
nexus100
Gold Meritorious Patron
Let's also point out that upon destruction of the COS Marty is much safer, upon prosecution he has a stronger defense, upon approach by ex'es he has common ground, he has the possiblity of writing a book, he has the Indie network to use to make dough and maintain status, and he was able to assume an identity for years that allowed him to do unthinkable things while in full knowledge of genuine COS operations.
None of this is to say Marty isn't a good guy under the veil. But trust him to give an real viewpoint? Hmm.
Politics makes for strange bedfellows.
None of this is to say Marty isn't a good guy under the veil. But trust him to give an real viewpoint? Hmm.
Politics makes for strange bedfellows.
Lulu Belle
Moonbat
ILived1984!
Patron with Honors
I've been in the same frame of mind. These people want to dethrone Miscaviage so someone nice can step up when the real problem started with Hubbard. Listening to all the congresses and reading loads of policies, I started seeing the vice grip tightening in the 1960s, administratively anyway. That doesn't take into account the fact that the Scientology "Admin Tech" is based on organization/administration theories and methods from the early half of the 20th century for industrial/manufacturing based companies including the precious "Qual" division. In fact, a lot of it seems to be based on the work of a Frenchman named Henri Fayol who wrote the book "General and Industrial Management", a German by the name of Max Weber who wrote "The Theory of Social and Economic Organizations" and an American by the name of Frederick Taylor who wrote "The Principles of Scientific Management".
Okay, that was pretty off topic and probably belongs under another thread but, you know, just saying...
But, I do agree that without the organization and practices laid down by Hubbard, DM would not be in power nor would he have had a role model.
Okay, that was pretty off topic and probably belongs under another thread but, you know, just saying...
But, I do agree that without the organization and practices laid down by Hubbard, DM would not be in power nor would he have had a role model.
ethics folder confidentiality
What an amazing day!
I can't believe they admitted to using data from the ethics folders!
Like pc folders, they are supposed to be confidential. Even though it has been the practice, whether the Guardian's Office or OSA to go through the folders, it's amazing that they admitted it outright.
Here are a couple of references:
http://rapidshare.com/files/247097595/SPD_118_P1.JPG.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/247097596/SPD_118_P2.JPG.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/247097597/SPD_118_P3.JPG.html
What an amazing day!
I can't believe they admitted to using data from the ethics folders!
Like pc folders, they are supposed to be confidential. Even though it has been the practice, whether the Guardian's Office or OSA to go through the folders, it's amazing that they admitted it outright.
Here are a couple of references:
http://rapidshare.com/files/247097595/SPD_118_P1.JPG.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/247097596/SPD_118_P2.JPG.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/247097597/SPD_118_P3.JPG.html
ILived1984!
Patron with Honors
I agree, the COS doens't really work.
As for the value of the COS falling, I'm not sure if you were saying this or not, after a few read throughs, but it does have value to some degree for each individual who wanted it to fall. Weather they experience and eye opening experience to view the universe differently or not, it does have value.
On a broader level it shows that the power or persistance and bravery can expose and bring down a completely insidious and corrupt organization. Yes, that has happened in the past and yes it will happen in the future. There are organziations that are far worse that need to go through the same. And yes, I also hope people learn.
I'm not sure what you meant by us still being in the trap from the following:
"Until that field of vision is opened you are just as likely to step into the same sort of trap. In fact you are still in that trap now. You think it means something that the COS falls. But for you, with a reality identical to that point of entry, it means little."
It would appear to me that a number of people on this board had their field of vision opened and got out of the trap. Unless you are talking about people who can't discern between their experiences with the COS and other suppresive organizations.
I'm really just trying to uderstand what you wrote as I liked most of it.
As for the value of the COS falling, I'm not sure if you were saying this or not, after a few read throughs, but it does have value to some degree for each individual who wanted it to fall. Weather they experience and eye opening experience to view the universe differently or not, it does have value.
On a broader level it shows that the power or persistance and bravery can expose and bring down a completely insidious and corrupt organization. Yes, that has happened in the past and yes it will happen in the future. There are organziations that are far worse that need to go through the same. And yes, I also hope people learn.
I'm not sure what you meant by us still being in the trap from the following:
"Until that field of vision is opened you are just as likely to step into the same sort of trap. In fact you are still in that trap now. You think it means something that the COS falls. But for you, with a reality identical to that point of entry, it means little."
It would appear to me that a number of people on this board had their field of vision opened and got out of the trap. Unless you are talking about people who can't discern between their experiences with the COS and other suppresive organizations.
I'm really just trying to uderstand what you wrote as I liked most of it.
Telepathetic
Gold Meritorious Patron
Hey Cakemaker,
Welcome, sorry I didn't do this earlier but with all this excitment...well, you know.
TP
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