St. Petersburg Times: Rinder, Rathbun, and more speak out

[BlackCatTango]

Cat? Who IS in charge of negotiating our Reality TV series?

GT -- We'll find out when they come forward. I just hope they get the guy who produces Survivor to produce it.


Hmmm.....this sure opens up discussion from what angle to do the Reality TV series-- I sure wouldn't want someone to have to mock up surviving Sea Org living conditions to win money and fame.

What was your idea for a reality series?

 

[nexus100]

I agree, the COS doens't really work.

As for the value of the COS falling, I'm not sure if you were saying this or not, after a few read throughs, but it does have value to some degree for each individual who wanted it to fall. Weather they experience and eye opening experience to view the universe differently or not, it does have value.

On a broader level it shows that the power or persistance and bravery can expose and bring down a completely insidious and corrupt organization. Yes, that has happened in the past and yes it will happen in the future. There are organziations that are far worse that need to go through the same. And yes, I also hope people learn.

I'm not sure what you meant by us still being in the trap from the following:

"Until that field of vision is opened you are just as likely to step into the same sort of trap. In fact you are still in that trap now. You think it means something that the COS falls. But for you, with a reality identical to that point of entry, it means little."

It would appear to me that a number of people on this board had their field of vision opened and got out of the trap. Unless you are talking about people who can't discern between their experiences with the COS and other suppresive organizations.

I'm really just trying to uderstand what you wrote as I liked most of it.

Hi Ilived!
If we define reality as what is real to each of us, separately, then in order to understand more one expands that reality. Very simply one sees more viewpoints. One looks outside what is real to one, adds it to one's reality, and grows. This is a very real and doable operation, my opinion.

I suspect that one of the attractions of the COS to many of us was the opportunity to be right without having to take this step. Just carrying the banner of the COS was enough. This allowed us to imprint Hubbards identity and accept his ideas as our own. When we looked at a different reality we saw it through that filter of Hubbardism. And what a filter, with any response in the book allowed, but no geniune understanding. Abandoning that viewpoint is well and good, obviously.

But it really means something only if we move beyond the reality that allowed us to join in the first place. The us vs. them, the being right and others wrong, the utter acceptance of a viewpoint without examination because it fits what we want to believe. There is a reality of heroes, in exalted ones, in superiority and kinghts in white armor going on that is a bit unsettling. It is a feeding frenzy to me. The COS is being killed off largely through its own internal efforts IMO. Just be willing to see why we were so gung ho. It wasn't because we were fooled. We had a reason. What was that viewpoint? When you know you are really on the path out. Till you do its same-o same-o.

 

[uniquemand]

" He left no explicit succession plan, leaving open the question of who would lead the church.

Months later, Miscavige, Rathbun and another executive took control of the Religious Technology Center, the RTC, which Hubbard created as the highest ecclesiastical body in the church. They dismissed the staff and pressured the head of the office to step down.

Miscavige became the RTC's chairman of the board, a title he still holds. Rathbun took the high-ranking post of inspector general for ethics.

The last rivals for control of Scientology were Pat and Annie Broeker, who had assisted Hubbard in his last years. The founder had elevated them to "loyal officer" status, a higher rank than Miscavige, a captain.

The Broekers also had custody of Hubbard's last writings, the cherished upper levels of Scientology auditing that he wrote by hand while in seclusion. For a church that depends in large part on auditing fees, the papers were a gold mine not only spiritually, but financially. Miscavige wanted them.

Rathbun reveals what they did: ..." http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1012148.ece

 

[Good twin]

GT -- We'll find out when they come forward. I just hope they get the guy who produces Survivor to produce it.


Hmmm.....this sure opens up discussion from what angle to do the Reality TV series-- I sure wouldn't want someone to have to mock up surviving Sea Org living conditions to win money and fame.

What was your idea for a reality series?

I like the idea of an ESMB World tour. Visit Exes and see the various ways they cope with real life after living in the Scientology bubble. Just visit and interview Exes. Spend some time with them and try to catch their individual spin life after Scientology. That's all. No contest. No prizes. Just us.

 

[British Mom]

Wow, I mean wow! Finally!

Karma is a bitch, is it not? :happydance

This is great news Davey will probably go in hiding or committ suicide, classic indicators for an SP We told you Davey that your Karma was coming, well little dwarf it has arrived

 

[Alanzo]

"Church staffers covered up how they botched the care of Lisa McPherson, a Scientologist who died after they held her 17 days in isolation at Clearwater's Fort Harrison Hotel.

Rathbun, who Miscavige put in charge of dealing with the fallout from the case, admits that he ordered the destruction of incriminating evidence. He and others also reveal that Miscavige made an embarrassing miscalculation on McPherson's Scientology counseling."

And there's the third one.


I guess I didn't dream them.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Rathburn still is a clam. That's what I see in the video. He has done the first step to come out, but he's got a long way to go before he realizes the full extent of the scam.

Yep, he's still acting as if the pile of shit Hubbard put together known as Scientology has some value other than sucking as much money and life force out of anyone who is unfortunate enough to get caught up in it. Miscavige is a criminal, no one is going to argue that, but he is far from the problem. Hubbard is the problem, he created Scientology and Scientology turns good people into Hubbard-bots that do evil things for his cult.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Google News now has 11 articles on this St. Pete Times story. And much more to come....

Paul

 

[Good twin]

Google News now has 11 articles on this St. Pete Times story. And much more to come....

Paul

Sweeeet!

 

[nozeno]

Sweeeet!

Nice cleavage GT!

 

[Telepathetic]

Google News now has 11 articles on this St. Pete Times story. And much more to come....

Paul

This is spreading fast!!! I wonder if they are working on a vaccine?

I feel...what's that German word again..Schadenfreude?

TP

I need a Valium.

 

[Smurf]

Tommy Davis

Churches response. I.e. Tommy lying his a$$ off:

http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/church-response.shtml

Speaking of psychotics, sounds like Tommy doesn't have much emotional or psychological maturity or self-control left... spewing, ranting, raving with almost convulsive intensity... I see a psych ward in Tommy's future.

I can only imagine what is going through poor Anne's mind right now.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Speaking of psychotics, sounds like Tommy doesn't have much emotional or psychological maturity or self-control left... spewing, ranting, raving with almost convulsive intensity... I see a psych ward in Tommy's future.

I can only imagine what is going through poor Anne's mind right now.

He'll be in the rubber room next to Heber Jensch. He' is basically becoming Heber Jensch 2.0, a totally emotionally unstable flake, but I guess when it comes to Scientology that is par for the course.

 

[ILived1984!]

Thanks for replying. I think along the same lines. I first stumbled upon viewpoints early in life and was completly fascinated by it. I remember standing on the landing of steps in front of one of my university buildings staring at people wondering what their perspectives are and what they are thinking and how that is completley differnt from me and possible relations between me and then. That was pre Scn. My interest in it was sparked again from The Factors.

Oh man, the filter you speak of is so apparent. And yeah, I had that for a while too but not to a very strong degree. Indeed, adopting the viewpoints of the COS did make allow one to stictly apply it and turn on that filter and not think outside that small box.

I think you speak of a transcendance of a former reality to a new and more understanding one. It took a year for me to completely remove that filter and see why I was pulled into the church. It was quite sobering.

However, I still think there is value to the COS being dismanteld to someone who does oppose the church in one form or another. Whether they learn and expand from that or not. In the very least it will provide emotional satisfaction. Sometimes it takes a war to be won for some people to see a broader picture.

Thanks for the perspective Nexus. I'm glad you are on here.

Hi Ilived!
If we define reality as what is real to each of us, separately, then in order to understand more one expands that reality. Very simply one sees more viewpoints. One looks outside what is real to one, adds it to one's reality, and grows. This is a very real and doable operation, my opinion.

I suspect that one of the attractions of the COS to many of us was the opportunity to be right without having to take this step. Just carrying the banner of the COS was enough. This allowed us to imprint Hubbards identity and accept his ideas as our own. When we looked at a different reality we saw it through that filter of Hubbardism. And what a filter, with any response in the book allowed, but no geniune understanding. Abandoning that viewpoint is well and good, obviously.

But it really means something only if we move beyond the reality that allowed us to join in the first place. The us vs. them, the being right and others wrong, the utter acceptance of a viewpoint without examination because it fits what we want to believe. There is a reality of heroes, in exalted ones, in superiority and kinghts in white armor going on that is a bit unsettling. It is a feeding frenzy to me. The COS is being killed off largely through its own internal efforts IMO. Just be willing to see why we were so gung ho. It wasn't because we were fooled. We had a reason. What was that viewpoint? When you know you are really on the path out. Till you do its same-o same-o.

 

[Axiom142]

I’m so excited – I could give Alanzo a hug!

I’ve watched some of the videos now and from what Marty Rathbun said it is pretty clear that criminal investigations should be started, if indeed they haven’t already.

The ‘rebuttals’ from the CoS are truly sickening. Quite apart from the fact that they had no compunction about using information from PC and Ethics files, they bring out ex-wives to attack their former husbands and slur their character.

This is just the same old rubbish that we have all heard time and time again. When these people were on staff, they were the most ethical beings on the planet and could do no wrong, but as soon as they leave, for whatever reason, we hear stories of how they committed this and that crimes, were secretly plotting the downfall of the ‘church’, everything that they ever did was a screw-up, blah, blah, blah …

Reading the supposed ‘confessions’ from the ethics files of Rathbun and Rinder and hearing what the other, still in Execs had to say, reminded me so much of the victims of the Communist re-education camps, who were only let out when they confessed to whatever their tormentors wanted them to confess to. I’d be amazed if one single person who is not currently in the cult believes anything that they have to say on this. They have lost all credibility and are obviously operating in panic mode bourn of sheer desperation.

There was another interesting admission – “Yingling and chief church spokesman Tommy Davis acknowledged that violence became part of the management culture.”

And, rather amusingly – “The church says Rinder is a habitual liar”. Yet he was the official spokesperson for the CoS for over a decade! So, all the stuff he said on TV and in the press about Scientology was untrue?

This will send shockwaves through the cult. Hopefully this will inspire many others to come forward to tell their stories and many more to leave.

Axiom142

 

[nexus100]

Thanks for replying. I think along the same lines. I first stumbled upon viewpoints early in life and was completly fascinated by it. I remember standing on the landing of steps in front of one of my university buildings staring at people wondering what their perspectives are and what they are thinking and how that is completley differnt from me and possible relations between me and then. That was pre Scn. My interest in it was sparked again from The Factors.

Oh man, the filter you speak of is so apparent. And yeah, I had that for a while too but not to a very strong degree. Indeed, adopting the viewpoints of the COS did make allow one to stictly apply it and turn on that filter and not think outside that small box.

I think you speak of a transcendance of a former reality to a new and more understanding one. It took a year for me to completely remove that filter and see why I was pulled into the church. It was quite sobering.

However, I still think there is value to the COS being dismanteld to someone who does oppose the church in one form or another. Whether they learn and expand from that or not. In the very least it will provide emotional satisfaction. Sometimes it takes a war to be won for some people to see a broader picture.

Thanks for the perspective Nexus. I'm glad you are on here.

The same goes for me!

I didn't have any idea of viewpoint till a couple years ago. Sobering is a good word for the result. I see what you mean about dismantling. Maybe the "end cycle" will allow others to begin.

Thanks for joining in, looking foward to reading your thoughts.

 

[Good twin]

Nice cleavage GT!

Nice tongue Noz!

 

[HolyCow]

wow..woohoo! omg..I've now been online for 6 hours straight. Marty's full interview taking the longest. When I heard about the Miscarriage/Lisa connection, and destruction of evidence, my universe shifted like in an L.A. quake. He's going to jail!

I also spent a lot of time reading comments section. There's a section for the main story and all the subcategories! Someone from Clearwater said he tried to buy the newspaper in many places, but store employees told him the Scientologists came and bought them all up.
So, of course, there needed to be a post about staff not getting tv, internet, papers, and public getting computer "filters" unknowingly.

Out of hundreds so far, only a few troll comments. So of course somone had to explain to the Times and viewers about Scn trolls and posters.

And so it went on. I can tell you the fact of admission of disclosing "confessionals" was a big topic in and of itself. But you really should look at all the comments under all the categories. There's a reassuring theme of public calling for government, IRS, etc. to put an end to all this.
Ahhhhhh.

Today was the first time ever I was able to cry.

 

[uniquemand]

When I saw GTs cleavage, I cried.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

We all know damn well the cult will flood the SP Times with negative email about this article so be sure to email the journalists responsible for this article and express your gratitude and support.

http://www.tampabay.com/writers/joe-childs
http://www.tampabay.com/writers/thomas-c-tobin