Stably exterior with full perception

[beyond_horizons]

Theta has no location.

Thetan is an LRH substitute Identity for a Spiritual Being and is located.

Well if your viewpoint of you is in the inside of your head......then being bigger ...

But if you are bigger than the physical universe.....then going into the physical universe is interiorizing.

Alan

A couple of comments about this;

1. I remember holding out my hands outstretched a foot or so out from around my head and shoulders, splaining it that way to a hubbo Saint Hill trained OT-5, Class 6 friend, once upon a time many years ago. He looked at me in a strange sort of way even though I felt marvelous. The mood changed to sour grapes after that!

These days my micro bubble seems to feel this big!

And since then I’ve had the notion that perhaps hubbo trained his, “thetans” to become some of the most dumbest spiritual beings in the Universe.

2. But then again as I always notioned, as in no motion, scientology isn’t/wasn’t my idea of a religion.

In that larger context, lots of stuff going unrealized in that en-cult-uration, cult-ivation process, like that big picture silly oneness notion most every other spiritually based religion infers.

Perhaps in the theoretical macro bubble it means that we all project these smaller bubbles into this 3-D (dimension) from a no-place, a virtual 4-D! And if that’s the case, then it’s from that same 'no-place' where the prime directive has always been ‘The Golden Rule’.

But then I’ve always notioned strange in that way!

 

[Vinaire]

Spirita 101.

Spirit or Spirita the pure essence of spirit which is a formless substance - which was alter-ised by LRH to create a substitute subject called Scientology to "theta."

This next text is converted to Hubbardese to elucidate to those who only know Hubbardese as a language!

Theta to become a Thetan is a creation - a creation can be brought into being by a consideration - or postulate - which is a type of consideration - at which point you have space, time, energy and a smidgen of mass.

Alan

I may be wrong from somebody's point of view, but my current underdstanding is as follows:

STATIC + consideration TO BE = Thetan (see Factors #1 & 2)

THETA was used originally by Hubbard as a mathematical symbol (unknown) in the "equation of life" for "elan vital" or "life force" because its properties were not known. It was used because the equation could not be balanced just by using MEST alone.

.

 

[Alan]

I may be wrong from somebody's point of view, but my current underdstanding is as follows:

STATIC + consideration TO BE = Thetan (see Factors #1 & 2)

THETA was used originally by Hubbard as a mathematical symbol (unknown) in the "equation of life" for "elan vital" or "life force" because its properties were not known. It was used because the equation could not be balanced just by using MEST alone.

Static = Formless substance.

Consideration: TO BRING INTO EXISTENCE = Container Matrix + Energy = Universe = Playing Fields + Games + Identies (Be's) etc. = GAMES MATRIX.

Games Matrices within Games Matrices within Games Matrices.

The Factors have a few pieces missing.

Alan

PS: Let Hubbard's data be exactly as Hubbard wrote it........Allow it to be incomplete or flawed. Let go of trying to fit everything into his model - you will then observe outside his boxes.

 

[Alan]

If you are going to use THE FACTORS as your basic frame of reference.....then realize ALL OF SCIENTOLOGY is based on Hubbard's viewpoints - dimension points - and anchor points.

Which is fine for Hubbard, but utterly incorrect for everyone else. They maybe similar in some cases.

But each person creates their own UNIVERSE with their OWN viewpoints. Thus each case is unique.

The sole goal should be the restoration of each beings OWN viewpoints - DIMENSION POINTS - AND ANCHOR POINTS.

Not attempting to make all viewpoints agree to that of the DOMINATOR.

The mechanics of building a universe maybe almost identical.....but each universe is built by an individual or a co-created composite of individuals OWN viewpoints.

By evaluating or invalidating what viewpoint must be there or must not be there is the deadly flaw in Scio and Ron's Org Material.

Alan

 

[beyond_horizons]

But each person creates their own UNIVERSE with their OWN viewpoints. Thus each case is unique.

I don't see the factors as early enough either. And I do tend to agree it goes back further to 'Spirita' aka Light ... the formless substance.

But scuse me, considering it was astronomers who first coined the term "Universe" ... I loath the idea of jumping out of my so-called Universe only to find myself stuck in sombody elses ... probably because I've been there and done that so many times before!

Therefore to keep it simple, it occured to me to frame it in the ancient math.

The greatest number = 1 Universe = all there is! Everything in it is the matter of the fractions and fragments.

Perhaps it's better spelled as 'YOUNIVERSE' with their OWN viewpoints'. Your own room with a view so to speak ... that is ... if your intention is to feel the stillness and yet perceive the magnificents outside the space and time of all there is!

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

A couple of comments about this;

1. I remember holding out my hands outstretched a foot or so out from around my head and shoulders, splaining it that way to a hubbo Saint Hill trained OT-5, Class 6 friend, once upon a time many years ago. He looked at me in a strange sort of way even though I felt marvelous. The mood changed to sour grapes after that!

These days my micro bubble seems to feel this big!

[SNIP]

And since then I’ve had the notion that perhaps hubbo trained his, “thetans” to become some of the most dumbest spiritual beings in the Universe.

2. But then again as I always notioned, as in no motion, scientology isn’t/wasn’t my idea of a religion.

In that larger context, lots of stuff going unrealized in that en-cult-uration, cult-ivation process, like that big picture silly oneness notion most every other spiritually based religion infers.

Perhaps in the theoretical macro bubble it means that we all project these smaller bubbles into this 3-D (dimension) from a no-place, a virtual 4-D! And if that’s the case, then it’s from that same 'no-place' where the prime directive has always been ‘The Golden Rule’.

But then I’ve always notioned strange in that way!

Gees, you go offline for a few days, and threads really explode. I really felt the need to build on your 4-D model.

We already live in a 4D universe. We are used to thinking in 3D, mathematically x,y,z being forward/back, left/right, up/down. We then go and confuse ourselves by calling TIME the Fourth Dimension which is total BS. Time is the FIRST (or as I like to call it, the ZEROETH) dimension.

Sticking to mathematics and cheating a little for the sake of simplicity, a piece of paper is 2D: It's up/down has a measurable start and stop as does it's left/right. I am ignoring the "thickness" of the paper for this argument.

If you draw a single line on the paper, it is ONE dimensional, it's length having a measuable start and stop.

Now let's take an IDEA (or a Thetan, if you wish). It cannot be measured up/down, left/right, or forward/back. BUT IT CAN BE MEASURED AS HAVING A START AND END IN TIME.

Therefore arguing about size and/or location of a Thetan is in itself pointless. We perceive for ourselves from somewhere inside the body (generally), but as spiritual beings, our only true impingement on the physical universe is to exist in time. MEST should be spelled in reverse Time (which can exist WITHOUT space), Space (to allow for physical occupation), Energy (the building block of the physical) and then Matter (as the final observation), but somehow I don't think TSEM would have worked as an acronym.

I've forgotten my point, but I hope my alternative look at how many right-angles can be squeezed into reality provides some food for thought.

 

[Terril park]

The sole goal should be the restoration of each beings OWN viewpoints - DIMENSION POINTS - AND ANCHOR POINTS.

Not attempting to make all viewpoints agree to that of the DOMINATOR.

The mechanics of building a universe maybe almost identical.....but each universe is built by an individual or a co-created composite of individuals OWN viewpoints.

By evaluating or invalidating what viewpoint must be there or must not be there is the deadly flaw in Scio and Ron's Org Material.

Alan

I accept that LRH did try to indoctinate with his own considerations in a variety of areas, and that its sometimes flawed. I don't see how that applies to the " Factors" though. Viewpoint there is " a point of awareness from which one can percieve."

Then the last paragraph of factor 28, " Certainty in all three universes
must be regained, for certainty, not data, is knowledge." Seems pretty non-directive.

 

[Alan]

I accept that LRH did try to indoctinate with his own considerations in a variety of areas, and that its sometimes flawed. I don't see how that applies to the " Factors" though. Viewpoint there is " a point of awareness from which one can percieve."

Then the last paragraph of factor 28, " Certainty in all three universes
must be regained, for certainty, not data, is knowledge." Seems pretty non-directive.

I was using "THE FACTORS" as the basic frame of reference.

And then pointing out that each of us built our OWN Universes with our OWN Viewpoints.

The sole goal should be the restoration of each beings OWN viewpoints - DIMENSION POINTS - AND ANCHOR POINTS.

Once this is the goal of study, training and processing - almost all conflicts disappear.

Then the last paragraph of factor 28, "Certainty in all three universes must be regained, for certainty, not data, is knowledge" - to get this requires possibly one of the only true ways to get full ownership of a viewpoint is to fully apply it and demonstrate it in life by action and result.

The best way and probably the only way to regain your OWN viewpoints in any area or subject is; to follow the process of study, train, apply, debug,(get coaching and processing) re-study, retrain and apply until you have gained mastery and consistency of producing an optimum result in that area or subject.

Up to mid 1964 there were no platens, no this is what happened to every case. Basically it was find your interest line and follow it back to its source point.

The early R2-12 and GPM tech was in actuality confronting and erasing PT items and Games packages. If the correct items were found and erased - the next set of item floated into PT and were then found and erased.

The S&D tech was a way to key-out the PT truncated GPM.

The Grades were designed to key-out the PT truncated GPM.

But this has long been forgotten. But it is still there on most cases.

There are several areas prior to the GPM type areas that lay underneath that set up the case - and that needs to be addressed to erase all charged areas on the case.

Without those areas being addressed the case just automatically re-mocks up again.

Alan

 

[beyond_horizons]

We already live in a 4D universe. We are used to thinking in 3D, mathematically x,y,z being forward/back, left/right, up/down. We then go and confuse ourselves by calling TIME the Fourth Dimension which is total BS. .

Ya ... thats what I said! It's that no place outside "THE 3-D UNIVERSE". I didn't refer to time as the 4th dimension. Time is the time it takes to go from x to y to z around the Bermuda Triangle.

And here you got your hubbo, who by the way, invented your nick, passing the gaseous notion of three universes along with notions that there is a universe north , south , east and west of this one, as someone else posted on a different thread.

And then there are those other guys who would claim the notion that there are 6.5 billion universes here. And I know that’s not true because that leaves out my dog Kane! The Vet would have me believe that he has his own universe within the dog universe and that seems more credible knowing what I have to do to keep his tail wagging. But then what about all the other dogs in the neighborhood?

And now Alan ... don’t get me wrong I like the guy for patching up x scientologists and was actually thinking of submitting my application to Knowledgism for 'Science Advisor' up until now … adds an additional 32 more universes to the mix? So is that 32 X 1 X 6.5 billion plus cats and dogs ... or minus cats and dogs ????

Then what about chickens and pigs?

That's why I say 6.5 billion plus 'YOUNIVERSES' that make up the WHOLE!
But if you look at it down in from outside the whole, it turns out to be 1/6.5 billion plus as folks snuggle in for that room with a view!



And for the record you can count me out ... AFAIC I don't live here any more!

 

[Alan]

That's why I say 6.5 billion plus 'YOUNIVERSES' that make up the WHOLE!
But if you look at it down in from outside the whole, it turns out to be 1/6.5 billion plus as folks snuggle in for that room with a view!



And for the record you can count me out ... AFAIC I don't live here any more!

I love your view!

But mine is better!

And more right than yours! So there!

Ummmmm! Seems I've heard those viewpoints before!

Would it not be terrible if we were all incredibly correct - no matter what viewpoint each of us believed! How dull would that be!

Peaceful...but oh! so! dull! Or is it?

Alan

 

[Alan]

'YOUNIVERSES' - how about "ALL-IN-VERSES" Verses being poetry in motion, gloriously sculpted masses and beautiful harmonious synchronizations.

Thus anything less than that is non-optimum.

 

[Vinaire]

Static = Formless substance.

Static is no substance
Oh! how deep the deception goes
Of Aristotelian logic.
Static is simply an ability
Waiting to be expressed.

Please see

http://www.geocities.com/vinaire/Religion/Christianity/Divinity.htm

.

 

[beyond_horizons]

I love your view!
But mine is better!

'YOUNIVERSES' - how about "ALL-IN-VERSES" Verses

And more right than yours! So there!

ALL-IN-VERSES as in 'ALAN VERSES'??? ? In this case 'Correct' is a relative term amongst us relatives here in the “Multiverse”. Anyways seems you get the picture!

Would it not be terrible if we were all incredibly correct - no matter what viewpoint each of us believed! How dull would that be!

You don't keep people up all night long for weeks on Martian watch when they ought to be sleeping ... or do you??? Have you reconsidered Ron’s ‘teegeeak implant’ as ‘correct’ no matter what the viewpoint? If so, you're going to have-ta unattest to not being a scientologist on this new notion that hubbo was correct after all????

Ummmmm! Seems I've heard those viewpoints before!

Yup, it’s the 21st century. Heard bunches of them viewpoints, but not in the hubbo tech, first back in the early 1990’s. Those notions and ideas and some folks outside scientology saved my ass for a few more decades!

“Reconnection” is a universal event! I noticed you heard the word to from someplace also during your researches outside the hubbo box? Care to share from where?

Peaceful...but oh! so! dull! Or is it?

I always said I’m here for the entertainment. But exactly what is it you propose to do about the “pt universe” constructed of galactic strings, galaxies, super nova and black holes, other than standing back and marveling over the whole affair??? Most of my professional friends do that already.

poetry in motion, gloriously sculpted masses and beautiful harmonious synchronizations.

Thus anything less than that is non-optimum.

I violently agree with these notions at that level. Don’t see it a product of scientology or freezone’s standard tech. All those fragments seem to be at odds over the rights to the comic book they seem to be dramatizing!

 

[Vinaire]

Sure he does. He is a viewpoint of dimension, solely because he considers that he *IS*.

So, the theta has a consideration and that locates it as thetan.

consideration = location
or
location = consideration.

In general, any consideration will locate a person.

.

 

[Zinjifar]

So, the theta has a consideration and that locates it as thetan.

consideration = location
or
location = consideration.

In general, any consideration will locate a person.

.

I'm Queen Victoria, and, this lampshade is my crown!

Zinj

 

[Alan]

I always said I?m here for the entertainment. But exactly what is it you propose to do about the ?pt universe? constructed of galactic strings, galaxies, super nova and black holes, other than standing back and marveling over the whole affair??? Most of my professional friends do that already.

Learn fully about them.
________

 

[Vinaire]

I'm Queen Victoria, and, this lampshade is my crown!

Zinj

You are located. Mind you, it is all relative.

How are thetans located when they do not have bodies?

Later, they are located by the body they attach themselves to. A body catches a thetan by manipulating that thetan's considerations, such as, generating extreme desire in that thetan for that body.

A body is, in some ways, a concentration of attention units and considerations.

.

 

[beyond_horizons]

Learn fully about them.

Pretty sure you're recommending that not be done at a Ron's org and with Ron's universal planetary babble under that notion that 'we're all incredibly correct - no matter what viewpoint'!

So then if that's the case, where do you recommend that be accomplished?

 

[Alan]

Pretty sure you're recommending that not be done at a Ron's org and with Ron's universal planetary babble under that notion that 'we're all incredibly correct - no matter what viewpoint'!

So then if that's the case, where do you recommend that be accomplished?

I'm open for any guidance!

Well, some guidance!

Some guidance that does not interfere with my already pre-conceived concepts!

 

[beyond_horizons]

Some guidance that does not interfere with my already pre-conceived concepts!

Rather than create another spectacle of from speculating about stuff just because the answer is'nt obvious yet, seems to me the best place to learn about all-there-is, is as we're doing, ;i.e. Amazon. com, Barns and Noble, school, Universities and now the internet. That is, if one’s desire to achieve one’s goals and avoid gloriously sculpted masses and beautiful harmonious synchronizations such as in;

http://home.snafu.de/tilman/clearwater1998/rpf.epf.html

I shudder to imagine my portrait there. But at some quantum level I can actually feel it happening to me!

No one smart or talented enough in that picture to have discovered and removed the 8 by 5.5 cm carcinoma found wrapped around my heart a few years ago. And I’d of been way too broke, with no health insurance to cover the dead beat "Wog Medico’s/Pharmico’s” costs to remove it. It actually required some rather smart people and machines operating on the laws of physics to accomplish that. My spiritual team mates I like to think of them.

Of course in the hubbo butt crack world view, 'dead' for guys and gals like us would have been a positive thing rather than having us post our stories here. But alas I digress!

Looking forward … bout all I can do bout all of this is to babble out my own world view in a couple of paragraphs from the bits and pieces of stuff realized while rebuilding my life outside that box. Any puns that follow are intentionally intended!

It may be somewhat correct that in a local world view of the matters of the continually bifurcating Universe, especially where territorial lines are drawn, local notions need often drop by the wayside, especially when and after planet earth’s teams of preferred spiritual teammates, (the 21century astrobiologists), collectively focus in on and at the various levels of out there and send that information back to our “Universities”. As we see, much of which was babbled out back then in a closet by the ass-trobiologist is not what is actually found to be true.

That said, like most disgruntled patients of planet earth, we need to practice our patience. The truth of the matter continues to unfold before our very collective eyes.

AFAIC, while sorting through the static (in the form of the universal noise) it’s got to be an iterative process of separating the real from the imagined.
But in the end and along the way it all boils down to as you say … the bigness of each being.

So these days I tend to enjoy the manor by which my professional friends look out and about relative to my own reflections and recollections from some lessons learned along the way.

Most importantly one of those that occured one day in a flash; "I am part of all I see, And all I see is part of me..."

http://www.amazon.com/All-I-See-Part-Me/dp/0935699074

Hence once again ‘The Golden Rule’ keeps popping into view! Of course as the illusionist might say, a little bit of justice as in; “An eye for an eye, And a tooth for a tooth” … goes a long, long way to help save the day!


Hope that does not interfere with your already pre-conceived concepts!